Stranger Abduction Theories #2

Discussion in 'Kyron Horman' started by JBean, Dec 1, 2010.

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  1. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    I don't think stranger abduction is such an off the charts notion. I do think that the little bits of information we have gleaned to date seem to point to TH and personally think that TH is involved. I think she had the means, motive and opportunity.


    However, I also think there are enough holes in all the theories that make discussion of a stranger abduction reasonable.

    I was watching criminal minds last night and it was about a boy that was not getting the attention he deserved at home and had been courted by a man for some time. Not in a sexual way, but in a father- son way. It was clearly a sick relationship, but the boy was very interested in the attention this man would give him and this enabled the man to spirit him away virtually under everyone's noses with the intention of making him his own son. No one even realized he was having a relationship with this man.

    Now I am not suggesting that this is the case here, nor are there any parallels except a missing boy. however, since we do not have definitive proof at this juncture,discussion of a stranger abduction is not out of the realm of possibilities.

    Feel free to throw your theories out here, but don't take it personally when someone shoots your theory down(in a respectful way..... ahem)just argue your theory as best you can.

    To you die hard TDI's ( terri did it) please don't be rude to those that think differently than you. Lots of complaints about fear of posting things that are contrary to the majority and that is just wrong. If a thread like this frustrates you because you think it is not possible, post somewhere else if you cannot intelligently argue your own point without getting personal.

    If you think you are inclined to snip at someone or post rude condescending remarks towards those that think differently than you, please don't. If you want to post a long diatribe about why it is not a stranger abduction, please don't. Just respond to the theories that may be posted, please.

    Thanks.
     
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  3. cluciano63

    cluciano63 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this thread; while I have come to believe that Terri probably is guilty, I am not totally convinced and have been careful about posting. We've heard basically *nothing* from LE in the six months of this case, so it does not seem unreasonable that some people have not been able to fully make up their minds.

    Until someone is arrested and a case is proven, we can't know this was not a stranger abduction, not for sure.
     
  4. jandkmom

    jandkmom New Member

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    I may bet way off base, but this case reminds me of Jaycee Dugard in the fact that a step-parent was the last one to see the child and is believed to have been involved. I hope that the truth will come out soon either way. Jaycee Dugard's stepdad was proven innocent many years later, and I hope that if Terri is innocent that it doesn't take that long.
     
  5. Dee10

    Dee10 New Member

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    Do you have a theory how Ky was taken from the school that day without anyone noticing?

    Although, personally I think this a slim possibility, I am keeping an open mind so...I would honestly, appreciate a theory to chew on. So do you have a possibility how this happened?
     
  6. mmmagique

    mmmagique Deliver us from evil

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    FR: Jaycee Dugards stepfather should never have been a suspect. This child was taken, (dragged into a car by a woman with a man driving) in front of her friends. This is very different, imo.
     
  7. GrainneDhu

    GrainneDhu Verified Expert

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    SBM

    Your last paragraph made me nauseous. That is almost *exactly* what happened to me before I was raped when I was 12 years old. There was a lot of turmoil at home because one of my parents was extremely ill, I was stressed out with worry over my parent and also (looking back) the loss of the usual amount of attention I was used to receiving.

    The rapist was a guidance counsellor at my school and he was oh so careful to encourage my dependence on him before ever doing anything even faintly inappropriate. I was so starved for attention and so needy, I was an easy target for him. He gave me help with my school work, listened to my worries, gave me advice on how to deal with my younger siblings (who were, needless to say, just as worried and stressed out as I was but since I was oldest, I felt responsible for them), etc. He even got his wife to write out easy recipes to fix for dinner. Yes, he was apparently happily married.

    By the time he started going beyond my comfort zone, I was so dependent and felt so grateful to him that, well, let's leave it that I was easy prey.

    Like you, I think it rather more likely than not that TMH is responsible for Kyron's disappearance but I'm not completely convinced.

    One thing from my own past that I wonder about and that is, if the perp was a nonfamily acquaintance (friend, school staff or whatever), were they also grooming any other children? Predators are usually trolling for victims, so...
     
  8. GrainneDhu

    GrainneDhu Verified Expert

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    The apparent lack of witnesses to seeing Kyron outside the school that day doesn't seem too unlikely to me. As far as the public knows, NO ONE saw Kyron outside the school, no matter if the perpetrator was TMH or a nonfamily perpetrator.

    IF this were a nonfamily perpetrator, I think that one way that it could have happened is that the perpetrator saw Kyron temporarily alone in the school (maybe going to the bathroom? or straggling behind his group?). He asks Kyron to help him bring something in from his car and tells Kyron that his teacher or the principal said it was okay.

    He walks out to his vehicle with Kyron, being alert for anyone who seems to be noticing them. Looks over his shoulder to make sure no one is watching through the school windows but since this was during the time of the science fair, everyone was engrossed with what was going on inside the classrooms. Coast was clear.

    He arrives at his vehicle with Kyron.

    If, at any point, anyone had seen them together, he would have aborted the attempted right there. Told Kyron that he just realised he had to go get something else, sent Kyron back to the school and no one would ever have been the wiser.

    If this is the way it happened, then the actual danger period for the perpetrator was literally only a couple seconds. Up to that point, the perpetrator had plausible deniability if anyone had seemed to notice them. Once he enticed or placed Kyron in his vehicle, that was the danger point where there would be no way to believably explain what he was doing. And that period when he was in the act of getting Kyron into his vehicle could have literally taken a couple seconds.

    I once saw a video of a simulated abduction by vehicle. The driver drove up to the young adult woman pretending to be the victim and got her to come over to the vehicle by asking for directions. As soon as one of her arms was within reach, he grabbed it, then grabbed the neck of her sweater and used his two grips to drag her into his vehicle through the driver's door window.

    It was so incredibly fast, if you blinked you'd miss it. One second there was a normal looking scene of a pedestrian talking calmly to someone in a car, the next second, poof, the pedestrian was gone.

    The person playing victim tried to struggle and scream but it was over so fast, she was not effective. Even though she had the advantage of knowing that the attempt would be made. The car had tinted windows so once the window was rolled up, there was nothing to see.

    IF this were a nonfamily abduction, that's how fast I think it went down. One second, everything seemed normal to Kyron, the next second he was in some way trapped in the vehicle.

    Another couple seconds lets the perpetrator get into their vehicle, start it (unless it was one of those with remote start, which makes it even easier) and calmly drive away.

    The other theory I have wondered about is based on the many descriptions of Kyron being somewhat shy, timid, etc. I wonder if, while he was in the school, some other kids started teasing him and he left the building in distress to get away. A predator saw a small boy unattended near the school, grabbed him and left. If it happened this way, then it was opportunistic in nature: a predator who was constantly on the alert for a possible victim. It could have been a kid separated from a parent at a store by just a couple feet, a kid who chased a ball behind a tree at the park, anywhere and any time there was a couple seconds' gap in adult supervision. IF this is what happened, it was Kyron's misfortune to intersect with a predator.

    I guess I'd dub my second theory the Adam Walsh type theory. Who could ever have predicted that his mother would turn her back for a few minutes? Adam had joined a small crowd of kids looking at a video game system, who could possibly have predicted that none of them would notice Adam? If the security guard info is true (one rumour that has gone around is that a store security guard asked the group of kids to leave the store due to rowdiness), then who could have predicted Adam would be outside the store and alone?

    No one. And yet, it did happen.
     
  9. Adrienne37

    Adrienne37 Former Member

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    I don't have a specific "stranger" abduction theory but maybe a dingo took Kyron from school that day?


    ~JMO~
     
  10. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    This will not end well.
     
  11. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    If you mean the thread,I hope it does, because it is zero tolerance and parameters are pretty clear in the OP.
    If you are talking about Kyron, I agree.
     
  12. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    I think Kyron walking out without anyone noticing in general(as far as we know) is the oddest part of the whole thing.
    If he walked out voluntarily with another person, to be honest, I am not sure anyone would even notice that on a day of relatives, friends and family.

    What I am saying is it is equally as odd that no one is reported as seeing Kyron walk out and get in a car with TH as it is that he was not reported as walking out with a stranger.
     
  13. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    You make a good point. If Jaycee had not been found with Philip Garrido, many would still blame her stepfather for her disappearance. And if an electronic record existed to reveal his thoughts and actions prior to her disappearance, would we see e-mails containing not-so-nice comments about Jaycee? We might. Eleven year-old girls, no matter how sweet, can be real brats at times.

    The big difference I see between the two cases is each respective stepparent's behavior after the fact. CP jumped on a bike and chased after Garrido's car. He also passed at least two polygraph examinations, underwent hypnosis, and gave media interviews and pleaded for her return. He and and his wife did footsearches on their own. And 18 years later, long divorced from her mom, he still cried real tears of joy when talking about Jaycee's return.

    This is from a 1991 People magazine interview with Jaycee's parents shortly after her disappearance.
    http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20111362,00.html

    That's what innocence sounds like. A stark contrast to Terri Horman.

    Oh, dear, I've gone way OT and lost my original train of thought.

    Umm...oh, right...stranger abduction theories. :idea:
    I posted a couple of them way back when. The one I think works best is the opportunist theory where the perp is a contractor, electrician, delivery man, or salesman who had business at the school, so wouldn't appear out of place (among the hustle and bustle of a busy day, these individuals often disappear into the landscape). This person might have been familiar to Kyron from previous visits to the school, and also would have had flexibility in his schedule, unlike a school employee whose absence for any length of time would've been noted. I know anyone who falls into this visitor category has been checked out, but there's always the possibility that someone fell through the cracks. IDK. A plumber, perhaps, who came back to look for a wrench he lost days earlier. Any example that combines means, i.e., a vehicle, flexible timing; random opportunity; and sight recognition/trust for Kyron will work in this theory, but there are few of them. Which keeps leading me right back toooooo...
     
  14. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    I think the issue of Jaycee's stepfather is an interesting one, but the odd part is that he behaved in an innocent way, yet he was believed to be the guilty party up until she was found.

    So, we have discussion about stepparent as abductors in other threads and this one is for stranger theories. If you all want to discuss step parent abduction suspects that were innocent, find the right thread.
    thanks.


    IMO, if it was a "stranger" it was not a stranger to Kyron and he left voluntarily. By this I mean it would be someone (aside from a family member because that is not the topic here) that Kyron had some exposure to.

    To me, he pretty much could have walked out of there voluntarily with anyone and no one would have noticed, because that is apparently what happened. I am not of the mind he was subdued at the school and removed involuntarily from the building because I think that would have been a bizarre methodology for anyone, family member or stranger.
     
  15. Astrella613

    Astrella613 New Member

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    The timing of this crime makes me think that it may have been someone other than SM. A couple of weeks before school closing for the summer leads me to think that it may be someone who only had contact with Kyron during school hours or it may have been someone just passing by that saw the sign and took advantage of an opportunity. It wouldn't be very hard to remove a small child from a school. May have been hiding in a bathroom with a large gym bag and some tape or a drug to keep quiet. Could have been totally random or targeted.
     
  16. Skully

    Skully Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning I posted my theory and it was a lot like some of yours, a man or someone he sort of knew, asked for him to help with getting something out of the car or truck. That is an old ruse and works well on a day like the school was having. People coming and going, no cameras, lots going on, distractions, and projects being loaded and unloaded not to mention, lots of people not normally on the school grounds. So very possible, but where I became convinced TH had something to do with this, was the after behavior. The behavior felt guilty to me, but maybe she was guilty of something else, not Kyron. Was she hiding an affair or the fact she didn't like him or worried what will people think when everything comes out? IDK, I still can't figure out means to carry this off, unless, she had help. So it's all on the table for me. I feel in my gut, she passed him off to somebody. That is the only thing that would fit into this tight time frame for me and the fact they haven't found a body. iIt takes time to hide a body that well.

    ps anyone see Criminal Minds last night??? Made me think of Kyron and his family.
     
  17. ami

    ami New Member

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    Actually we don't know if anyone saw Kyron outside the school, since Desiree inadvertently implied during a press conference that someone saw him in the parking lot.

    Who would be bold enough to walk into a school parking lot with a child that wasn't theirs, if they were about to abduct him? Not a teacher or custodian - their faces are too familiar and a casual glance of a student or another teacher out the window, or a familiar parent parking next to them would bust them immediately. And how would they explain their absence from their job once they drove away with Kyron?

    So either a stranger-stranger, unfamiliar to most folks there (could be a parent who is otherwise never at the school, unfamiliar to other kids and teachers), or someone who has only a temporary but official purpose at the school - like a landscaper (only we know who he is already) or someone there to fix a school bus, or to apply for a job at the school, or someone who wanted to check out the school for their own child because they've recently moved to the district, etc.

    How did they lure him out of the school? That's not as easy for me to imagine. Anything COULD work, on a given child, but then anything could also lead to the kid running away to tell a teacher, as they've been taught. Plus walking out the door itself is just a complete danger zone. How could a stranger predict who monitors the door? Or know if there were security cameras (a parent or employee would know there weren't any - a stranger would have no way of knowing).

    It seems very unlikely to me that a complete stranger would walk in to a school that's not in a very populated area and walk out with a student... what would they even be doing there to start with? If Kyron had been lured off the playground into the woods, that would be a more likely scenario, but from the center of a hallway with other kids by stranger danger? It just doesn't seem to work no matter how I twist it. Random crime of opportunity, yes, but premeditated snatch by a complete stranger from a school hallway... not so much.

    So my own guess for a stranger abduction would be a temporary worker or visitor who is not overly familiar to the students and other parents, but who had or created a legit reason to be at the school that day and committed a crime of opportunity. Kyron may have exited the school on his own to look at the plant boxes by the soccer field, like other kids did, and an adult saw this and offered to walk him "back into the school" perhaps towards the front door. The side walkway was not immediately observable from the windows and once by the more front-facing parking lot, Kyron was put in car and driven away. LE was focusing on that section of the parking lot, I recall. I don't remember (but I'll look at the pics again) if that side walkway was indeed hidden from the side windows of the school.
     
  18. mmmagique

    mmmagique Deliver us from evil

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    This is my theory:

    On Thursday TH brings Kyron to school to drop off the project. She has him walk out to the truck with her (or before her or after her) for something they "forgot".
    On Friday TH brings Kyron to school. They are both wearing very similar clothes as to what they wore the day before. She has him walk out to the truck with her or before or after her for something. She takes him, and that's it.

    I disagree with those who say it would have been just as dangerous for her, and just as likely for her to be caught doing this as a stranger.

    She knew the school, she knew what the day would be like, (chaotic) she was around there enough as to be much less noticable than some stranger would be.

    Could a stranger have taken him? Of course! But then, how do we explain all the other coincidences in Terri's life and her "unusual" behaviour?

    <removed by moderator>
     
  19. Aedrys

    Aedrys If justice doesn't get you, karma will.

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    I believe she did it too, but that doesn't mean I 100% rule out a stranger abduction either. The Chandra Levy case left me floored and just shocked. I was so convinced Gary Condit did it, and no, it was a serial rapist in a park that did it. When I found that out, it totally blew my mind. Ever since, I know that I can't throw out other possibilities. So a stranger abduction still is a possibility, and honestly, it if was, I hope we find out exactly how a stranger did this because it does baffle me how a stranger would have done this without being seen by not one person at that school or anywhere else afterwards.

    <removed by moderator>
    So anyway, yes, a stranger abduction is not impossible here. I look forward to reading all thoughts on this issue.
     
  20. debirlfan

    debirlfan New Member

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    Someone parks with the trunk of the car facing away from the school (in other words, backs in.) Perp lures Kyron out to car to help him bring something in - maybe even has something in the car as "evidence" in case he's caught. Item "to be brought in" is shoved deep into trunk where "perp can't reach it." Perp asks Kyron to climb in trunk to get it. Trunk slams shut. Kyron gone.

    It's possible that this "electric one" might even be something that was set up ahead of time, that Kyron was told about an exciting exhibit being brought in, and asked if he would help with it.

    I don't know if that's what happened, but it could have...
     
  21. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    ok this thread is about stranger abduction theories, not about how members post or how you post or about other members in general. If you referenced that in any of your posts please edit before a mod does, because that will result in a TO.
    I see at least 2 that need to be edited pronto. if your editing ability is out, contact a mod immediately.
    I am giving about 5 minutes or your post will be edited and you will be TO'ed. if you do not see this message, I am sorry but the rules are pretty clear in the OP.
     
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