Stungun marks

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by duster, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. duster

    duster Inactive

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I just saw the show on MSNBC about JBR. A picture was showed of the possible stun gun marks and I could see a very faint hairline mark between the two round red marks on her skin. This hairline mark could correspond to the arcing that occurs when a stungun is used on the skin. Has anyone seen these marks?

    thnks for reading--mw, sacramento, ca
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

    Messages:
    2,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Welcome Duster.

    There's a very good website which discusses the stungun and the line between the marks at :-

    http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

    Hope this helps Duster.
     
  4. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe it was Lou Smit's idea of a stun gun. It's never been proven. He concluded this from a photo. The body has never been exhumed to check it out. I don't believe in the 'stun gun' theory.
     
  5. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    duster,

    Even though I believe a Ramsey was involved somehow in the death of JonBenet, I also believe a stun gun was likely used on JonBenet.

    It's true the coroner, Dr. John Meyer, in his autopsy report originally identified the tiny twin marks on JonBenet as "abrasions", but he later changed his mind. Please refer to PMPT pb pg 431, "After reviewing the photos and this new information, Meyer concluded that the injuries on John Benet's face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun."

    The stun gun site you were referred to is from Cutter, a former poster on this forum and a highly informed poster. However, Cutter made some measurement mistakes on his Stun Gun Myth website.

    For instance, Cutter measured from the inside edges of the twin marks on JonBenet and stated the distance was 2.9 cm. But the proper way to measure marks such as these is from center line to center line of the twin marks. In other words, from the middle of one mark to the middle of the second mark.

    When measured from center line to center line the distance is about 3.6 cm -- the same distance, center line to center line, of the actual electrodes on an Air Taser stun gun. These measurements can be lifted from the photos on Cutter's own website.

    Cutter's other main point was that the tiny rectangular marks on JonBenet didn't exactly line up. However, when a stun gun is applied to the soft and pliable skin of a human and slightly twisted, the resulting mark on the pliable skin will also be slightly twisted and not line up perfectly. This was confirmed by experiments I made on my own arm.

    Therefore, it appears that the evidence from the autopsy pictures show that a stun gun was likely used on JonBenet.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  6. Toth

    Toth Inactive

    Messages:
    968
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    >I believe it was Lou Smit's idea of a stun gun.
    Actually Trip DeMuth and Lou Smit were going over the evidence together and each came to the same conclusion at that time.
    > He concluded this from a photo.
    Which is legally sufficient for an expert to base an opinion. A forensic pathologist does not need to examine tissue to form an opinion that a stun gun was used.
    >I don't believe in the 'stun gun' theory.
    I assume therefore that you are an adherent of the "Two well-trained Mosquitoes" theory.
     
  7. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Can you explain your two mosquito theory? I'm not familiar with it and how it connects to Lou and Trip. I think that might be what they started from, to transgress to the stun gun.
     
  8. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

    Messages:
    2,389
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think that in this case it would not. You base this statement on one particular case which was quite different. If there were dozens of similar pairs of marks on JonBenet, then perhaps. However there is ONE pair and a single mark which MIGHT be oe of another pair. That is not sufficient evidence to demonstrate a pattern.
     
  9. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why would anybody, intruder or not, have to use a stun gun to subdue JonBenet? She was a 45 pound (approximately) female child.
     
  10. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Q. Who would need a stun gun to control a six-year-old girl?

    A. Perhaps a nine-year-old boy.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  11. Old Broad

    Old Broad New Member

    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    when and how would a 9 year old boy get a stun gun?
     
  12. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Through an adult family member?
     
  13. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There's not many things hidden in a house that children can't manage to find.

    Just my opinion.
     
  14. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    I wonder if a woman intruder perp would be more comfortable subduing a child with a stun gun than with her hands. It would give a little more emotional distance from the act.
     
  15. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If it were a woman, that woman most likely would be a familiar face to JB, thus enabling her to get JB to do what she wanted, JMO, of course.
     
  16. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Even Dr. Dobersen himself conceded that it was impossible to tell if the marks on JonBenet's body were from a stun gun by just looking at photos. Dobersen said that in order to determine if they were stun gun marks, the marks would have to be examined firsthand, with the aid of a microscope.
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Page 349, PMPT pb:

    "After viewing the photos, Dobersen told the investigators that the abrasions on JonBenet's body could have come from a stun gun injury but there was no way to tell for sure without checking the skin tissue under a microscope. Before taking the extreme step of exhuming JonBenet's body, Dobersen advised them to find a stun gun or taser with prongs spaced the same distance apart as the marks on JonBenet's body and compare them to a life-size photograph."

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  18. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So far, the skin tissue has not been examined, to my knowledge. It's not reasonable, IMO, to determine stun gun use from a photo only.
     
  19. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Imon, you're right...it's not reasonable. Without examining the tissue, there's no way to tell for certain--not even by measuring the distance between the marks in a to-scale photo (which, if I recall, was done, and the marks in the photo were not the right distance apart to have been made by a stun gun).

    Anyway, whether a stun gun was used on JonBenet is neither here nor there as far as determining who the killer is.
     
  20. tipper

    tipper Former Member

    Messages:
    1,795
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But didn't he also say he'd be willing to testify that "with a reasonable degree of medical certainty" that they were from a stun-gun?
     
  21. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Couldn't anybody say that?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice