Sympathy for the Ramseys

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by GuruJosh, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. GuruJosh

    GuruJosh Inactive

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    I would like to vent my feelings on a certain subject. i still feel great sympathy for all the Ramseys. I can't understand people who post here who say things like "I only want justice for JonBenet", or talk about Patsy going to some ficticious Hell. Open your eyes. JBR is dead - she died in 1996. She's NOT coming back, and she feels NO PAIN anymore. Her body is returning to the Earth. Patsy, although lucky in life in some ways, and although two-faced, has gone through REAL "Hell" right here - on this planet. A "Hell" that none of us can imagine (unless there are people here who have also been subjected to media scrutiny & gossip for 10 years). John has lost 2 (TWO!) of his daughters. It is my firm opinion that even if, in the case of the WILDEST RDI scenario, John was a paedophile, or Patsy had paedophile friends, and in some way the parents' secret decadent lifestyle contributed to JBR's death... even IF that were the case, they have suffered enough. I beg forum members to show restraint in their comments about the Ramseys (who almost certainly read this forum, among others).

    So yes, I am a BDI enthusiast, and I suspect Patsy wrote the note and staged the crimescene to convince BURKE that an "intruder did it". But above all that, I have COMPASSION for these people (as i would have compassion for ANYONE).

    This case is fascinating almost in the same way that a chess game is fascinating. There are clues, and motives, and bluffs, and strategies which might conceal deeper strategies, or which might be mistakes.... But please, don't frame it as some sort of fight for JBR's "spirit". She's dead. Show compassion to those who have been constantly affected by this tragedy (among others) for almost 10 years - the Ramsey family (guilty or not).

    Let's say Patsy killed JBR in a rage. To those wanting to punish Patsy even now (indeed i have read someone talking of the death penalty for Patsy in retribution..), i ask you to use your third eye of compassion, to forgive this woman even if she killed her daughter.

    Crime and punishment is not as simple as it seems. Nothing is black and white.

    p.s. I might add that i too have been disrespectful of the Ramseys (and others) in certain posts (many of those posts ill-informed). This realization that we need to have love for John and Patsy (in particular) has only slowly dawned on me. I really feel it strongly now. Thast doesn't mean we shouldn't keep yapping about scenarios though ;) That's what makes the case fun for people like us, amateur sleuths :)
     
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  3. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I agree and think how much worse the whole thing is if they are in fact 100% innocent of the murder and simply guilty of following bad advice while in the midst of the worst trauma anyone can imagine.
     
  4. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Well I'm all for love and light guru, but the facts remain. And if this is the worse that the Ramsey's have to put up with, I think they have got off lightly.

    Edit to add I do feel sorry for Burke, regardless of whether or not he is guilty. His life was completely ruined that night.
     
  5. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    I have no compassion for the people who brought this on themselves, through their own actions and words.

    They deserve to be speculated about. They've brought suspicion on themselves from day 1...

    They deserve what? Compassion? Forgiveness? Understanding?

    Did JonBenet deserve to be murdered and her "family" lie, hide, and try to run things in the investigation from the begining?

    No, I think I'll reserve my compassion for the beautiful little 6 year old girl who didn't deserve her fate instead.
     
  6. GuruJosh

    GuruJosh Inactive

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    seeker, how can you feel compassion towards someone (JBR) who is not alive, i.e. no longer exists?
     
  7. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Butting in

    The same way you feel compassion and love for anyone you know that has died. I feel compassion for the diggers who fought for our country, even though most of them are dead now.
    You still feel for someone even if they are dead. Anyone who has known someone that has died can vouch for this.
     
  8. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    Shall we then dispose of all law in America? Murderers are to be found, have their day in court and be either turned loose by finding them innocent, OR being found guilty and sentenced for their crime.

    Eeeny meeny miny moe, which one shall go to jail and which one shouldn't?

    Well hecky darn, lets give everyone a government paid for gun, and a government paid for shovel. Then when someone annoys you, gets your goat, does an affrontery, shoot em, and burey em, cuz you got yer own government shovel. But then where would all the judges go, and all of the lawyers, and we would not need jail cells, nor would we need jail guards, no more massive quantities of pancake batter, no more visiting hours either cuz all the murderous folks would be at home enjoying their own peace and tranquility.

    Prisons could be turned into fancy condos. Where do ya live? "Oh I got me one a them roomy condos overlooking San Francisco Bay, they call it Quentinville On The Rocks." "You can't miss it, they painted the place a purty light blue, yep painted right over the ugly gray".

    Now then Samantha Runnions mom most likely felt some closure in knowing that the man who murderd her beautiful little girl would NEVER be doing another murder of a tiny child.

    Way too much quiet from the Ramseys on 'wanting' justice for their baby, OR for helping out the rest of humanity by NOT letting the murderer of JonBenet do it to someone else.

    I think I speak for many of us here at Websleuths, in that we loved and continue to love little JonBenet, she was indeed so lovable, she has been a major loss to our world. SO jailing the person responsible would be a fitting closure for this unspeakable - loss of murderous control. Are WE not a better people than this?

    All those who think we are a better people than this raise your hand and say aye.



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  9. capps

    capps New Member

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    Exactly!

    I may not agree with the way the Ramsey's have handled things,but if they are innocent ... and they may be ... by god they have endured so much,how can you not feel compassion.
     
  10. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Active Member

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    IF the Ramsey's really are innocent, what they have endured has been nothing short of a living hell.

    IF they are guilty they deserve everything they have endured and far more.

    I don't have the answer.

    I think they ARE guilty and I truly hope I am wrong.
     
  11. GuruJosh

    GuruJosh Inactive

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    It's far more important to feel compassion for those who still exist, not those who once existed but no longer exist. That's plain logic.

    My father killed himself when I was 19. He had had a very sad life. However I feel no compassion for him, since there is no longer anyone to direct that compassion towards (apart from myself).

    If you're implying that I haven't known death, you are dead wrong.

    What I'm saying is, I think a few people here are mis-using the word "compassion". You can't feel compassion towards something that does not exist.

    You may wish it still existed; you may still have love for that thing which once existed but has ceased. But compassion? Impossible. Choose another word.

    And as for punishment? Patsy has endured enough, whether she is guilty, complicit in some way, or completely innocent. I love chatting about this case, but take the invective elsewhere - that was my point. If you're angry at someone you've never met, that's perhaps an issue for YOU (not always, but often). Because everyone knows that having known someone, the mature person responds with compassion. That's what I am saying.

    Eye for an eye? Ridiculous, in this case. An abuse of language for the sake of emotionalism.

    Let's take the most common Ramsey guilt scenario - Patsy going bananas over something JonBenet did.

    Does she deserve life in prison for this act, for which she OBVIOUSLY did not plan, nor did she WISH IT in the first place?

    What DOES she deserve? And of course this is only one case in which Patsy is guilty. There are many others (BDI, JDI, FWDI, IDI) in which she is either minorly complicit for some other reason, or completely innocent.

    So to change the topic slightly, can I ask what you guys think Patsy deserves, IF she "did it" in a momentary rage?
     
  12. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    I am in agreement for the INTRUDER THEORY........... HAVE ALWAYS ADVOCATED THAT HERE ON WS AND ELSEWHERE.....

    The ramseys???????? I have no comment on them. I hold them in sympathy IF OR UNTIL they're proven linked to this.

    I DO NOT support their methods of PROVING their innocence..... I would offer every FIBER OF MY BEING up for proof that I did NOT kill my child.....

    I cannot speak for them, I hurt for them... I hope they are innocent and DID NOT KNOWINGLY introduce their daughter to a murderer.......... :( :( :(


    BTW: JBR WOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME AGE AS MY DAUGHTER..... WHO JUST TURNED 15. JBR is on my mind a lot as my own daughter grows in this world.
     
  13. GuruJosh

    GuruJosh Inactive

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    If Burke killed JonBenet, does your desire for "justice" still apply? How would you feel about Patsy if you knew, hypothetically, that she was just covering for Burke?

    Just trying to wade through your "hecky darns" to see what you're actually saying ;)
     
  14. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    I take exception to this Tipper. Yes, they may have been ill-advised on some decisions but they aren't helpless or dumbos. They've had plenty of time to recover from their initial shock and to make their own decisions. They have never acknowledged any wrong on their part at any stage and THAT is what makes people feel disgust. The Ramseys are very guilty of pointing the finger of blame elsewhere - for everything.

    Refusing to take polygraphs or be interviewed by the investigators is not a sign of a person with nothing to hide. No-one would have blamed them for taking their lawyers into the interview room with them but they wouldn't even go into the interview room!

    I also cannot understand their demands for special interview conditions. I fully understand why they were unacceptable the the police. Their child had just been brutally murdered and they were fussing over WHERE and for HOW LONG they would sit down and help the police?

    Sorry, I cannot excuse that and I don't understand how anyone else could.
     
  15. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    To GuruJosh, I am truly sorry for the loss of your father. You at least had 19 years with him. Only you know whether they were good years or bad years. My father died when I was 2, I have little or no recollection of him. A part of me often reflects on how my life would have been different if my father had lived.

    Since you appear to be quite new to the forum. Let me assure you after my having been here for 8.5 years trodding every path of thought about 'Who did it".

    If you could but read ALL of the threads over those years you would already know how I have felt and feel about the Ramseys.

    They are already in prison, and continue to do 'their' time. I am prompted to guess and wonder what changes they reflect on that they could have done, to have prevented JonBenets murder, IF they are guilty of covering up the truth of her murder.

    I have often posted that the truth would indeed have made them free.

    Years ago, we traveled to Yellowstone on vacation, this was forty years ago, the news at home before we left concerned a 10 year old little girl who was missing locally. On our trip I picked up a newspaper to see what information I could find. Shock filled me, the little girl had been murdered by a neighborhood 10 year old boy, and he had buried her in a shed behind his house. His name and the family name were splattered all over, the neighbors knew, everyone knew 'who did it'.

    Times have changed now, no names of minors in papers connected with 'their' crimes. No prosecution in Colorado under 10. I don't know how the law would treat the Ramseys, IF IF they wrote the ransom note.

    My point would be, I have long since forgotten the little boys name who buried his crime in an old shed. Wonder what sort of a life he is living now, or his parents who most likely might be dead by now too. That little boy and his parents faced the music, and got on with their shattered lives. No doubt the parents were smothered with compassion from every where.

    I maintain that truth is still the victor, the way to go, and the truth does set you free.

    IF a little boy did accidentally kill, and I doubt it. IF the scarf had significance, just how likely would a 10 year old be to use a scarf like that for EA ?, slim and none is my opinion.

    The Ramseys faced some very hard choices that Christmas night in 1996.
    We don't know what ALL of those choices were. It is the mystery of it all that haunts us all to this very day.

    GuruJosh. if you want to stay here at WS, dig around in the old threads, and read, most of us have been all over the map, wanting the Ramseys to be innocent. It just does not happen for me 'anymore'.
     
  16. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Active Member

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    "JUST covering"? :doh:
     
  17. capps

    capps New Member

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    GuruJosh Quote:

    To be honest, your answers will influence whether I hang around on this forum, since I can't really be bothered communicating with hate mongers. I don't have much to contribute anyway, so this is not a loss for either of us, I suspect But anyway, what say you? What does Patsy deserve, if guilty?

    Of course you have a lot to contribute,we all do,this is a discussion board.

    But I think your quote above is overly dramatic.I am on the side of IDI,but I never read anything from the RDI posters,so vile that I would consider them,or for that matter,any poster on this forum,to consider them hate mongers.

    Lighten up GuruJosh.
     
  18. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    WE, and I think I speak for most WS'ers are trying to solve a MURDER. A little girl is DEAD. Laws of America are geared to put murderers where they belong.

    RE read my eeny miny moe thingie, HOW would you choose who we should send to prison or not, for Murdering another human being?

    Our legal system is all we have. Again TRUTH sets people free. When the truth is known it speaks for itself.

    Someone posted frequently here years ago, that it is like a cat who goes poo on the ceramic floor, and tries to bury it there. No matter how hard it scratches the tile floor it yields not.

    Rabble rousers have come and gone on WS. If you choose to stay, welcome to you, IF you choose to leave, goodbye.


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  19. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    Maybe this will help you understand my stance...

    From the Merriam-Webster dictionary

    Main Entry: com·pas·sion
    Pronunciation: k&m-'pa-sh&n
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Late Latin; Middle French, from Late Latin compassion-, compassio, from compati to sympathize, from Latin com- + pati to bear, suffer -- more at PATIENT
    : sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
    synonym see PITY

    Main Entry: 1pity
    Pronunciation: 'pi-tE
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural pit·ies
    Etymology: Middle English pite, from Old French pité, from Latin pietat-, pietas piety, pity, from pius pious
    1 a : sympathetic sorrow for one suffering, distressed, or unhappy b : capacity to feel pity
    2 : something to be regretted <it's a pity you can't go>
    synonyms PITY, COMPASSION, COMMISERATION, CONDOLENCE, SYMPATHY mean the act or capacity for sharing the painful feelings of another. PITY implies tender or sometimes slightly contemptuous sorrow for one in misery or distress <felt pity for the captives>. COMPASSION implies pity coupled with an urgent desire to aid or to spare <treats the homeless with great compassion>. COMMISERATION suggests pity expressed outwardly in exclamations, tears, or words of comfort <murmurs of commiseration filled the loser's headquarters>. CONDOLENCE applies chiefly to formal expression of grief to one who has suffered loss <expressed their condolences to the widow>. SYMPATHY often suggests a tender concern but can also imply a power to enter into another's emotional experience of any sort <went to my best friend for sympathy> <in sympathy with her desire to locate her natural parents>.

    Yes, I have real compassion for the very fact JB was murdered. She was only 6 years old...

    If John & Patsy have suffered I've not seen it. I've read about Patsy's bouts of cancer that for some reason she, and she alone keeps being "miraculously cured", but I've never seen her actually be ill... I don't know if it's factual or just stories circulated for sympathy and/or attention.

    I don't wish any ill on Patsy.

    I don't hate the Ramseys, I just hate how they've acted.

    I don't consider "suffering" buying new homes and renovating them to suit their petty wants and desires. I don't consider it suffering if they've been able to vacation abroad (soon after JB died they went to Spain for a vacation) and "get on with" their lives so easily (that's my opinion of them after watching them for almost 9 years).

    Suffering IMO implies loss...they lost nothing other than JB, everything else they gave away, or discarded. They've consistantly lied about how "broke" they are all while buying these homes and renovating them, paying lawyers and investigators to keep them out of jail and taking very expensive vacations. And do you think oncology is cheap? Where are they getting all this money for Patsy's care if John "can't get a job" due to the stigma of JB's murder?

    Nope, no compassion from me for them at all. They brought it all on themselves.

    Steve Thomas: What would you say if I asked you if you would take a polygraph?
    John Ramsey: I'd be insulted

    John Ramsey: Finding my daughter's killer is my sole mission in life.

    No, his sole mission in life is using his daughter's name and the notoriety of her murder to profit off of. His political PLATFORM was his murdered daughter!!!
    Mr "I can't get a job" promised to create jobs if elected...how's that for a contradiction?

    Oh yes, they loved her soooo much that they left her body alone on the living room floor of their Boulder home and never even looked back...but they never visited her grave for years until it was brought to their attention that people were noticing this. John didn't want to "disturb" her by having her exhumed to lay the stun gun myth to rest, but he showed his true feelings about her when he carried her dead and stiff body up from the basement. Held her away from his body like a plank of wood...

    I don't know them so I can't hate them, but I am completely disgusted by the way they have conducted themselves since 12/26/1996...

    I wonder what's on tap for their next media campaign? Maybe a "celebration of life" on the 10 year anniversary of her murder?

    Will they even remember that her 15th birthday would have been this Saturday?
     
  20. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    Guru
    I was not implying anything.
    I am sorry about your father, but at least you knew him, I've never known either of my parents.
    Being a parent, I understand how wild kids can make you, they become experts at "pushing your buttons" and there have been many times I have had to count to 10.
    If Patsy killed JonBenet in a moment of rage, I can understand how that could happen.....but it was what she did afterwards that I cant forgive. She chose to save herself at the expense of her dead child.
    I dont think she has endured as much pain as poor little JonBenet did,when she lost her life.
    I am not angry at Patsy guru, I dont even know her and I take offense at you saying I have issues, if that is what you were saying, your last post confused me.
    I dont know why you are suddenly on the defensive and feel we all hate Patsy and that Patsy is hard done by, you should re read a few of your old posts and see exactly what you have said over time.
    If anyone is being insensitive it is you with statements like this:

    "That's what makes the case fun for people like us, amateur sleuths"

    It's like you have forgotten a little girl lost her life.
     
  21. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    Seeker and Narlacat, :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

    Hmmm just wonder what all sorts of thoughts go through a tiny childs mind, when they are being strangled to death. I feel compassion for this tiny child, and I never knew her, I only knew of her. That any child suffers and dies at the hands of person who is so out of control, is more than murder, it is insanity.



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