Tennessee Firemen ignore burning house over unpaid subscription fee

[cbanning]

What about personal responsiblity here? The homeowner gambled on not ever needing to use their services and he lost. I feel for him, but it is because of his own actions. It was also a trailer house, do you realize how quickly those things burn? By the time the firefighters got there it was probably too late to save the house.

 

[Nova]

What about personal responsiblity here? The homeowner gambled on not ever needing to use their services and he lost. I feel for him, but it is because of his own actions. It was also a trailer house, do you realize how quickly those things burn? By the time the firefighters got there it was probably too late to save the house.

I don't think anyone is excusing the homeowner. However, many of us are saying that fire coverage isn't one of those things that should be optional.

 

[Charlie09]

Actually, your questions have been answered more than once in the posts above.

But I realize that in your world, it's 1827 and we're all homesteaders on the empty prairie. I assume you still want the government to protect us against the Indians, or shall we leave that to each homeowner and his musket?

Well, I guess the government can have nursing aids for everyone because we're all too damn lazy to even wipe our noses. We want every freedom imaginable, just let someone else pay for it please.

 

[RLynne]

There is a misunderstanding here -
If I don't pay for groceries, I can't take groceries out of the store.
If I don't pay for gasoline, I can't pump it at the gas station.
If I don't pay for my car insurance, I will either lose my license, or be personally responsible for any damage I do to not only my own car, but another car. No matter how nice I am, or the other things I do for people, these things are my responsibility.

It was their responsibility to provide a way to fight a fire, *IF* they didn't want to pay for the fire department.

It's a sad story, but it's ridiculous to think the mayor of the town had anything to do with it.

But...if I don't have health insurance or the means to pay out-of-pocket, but I show up at an ER with a life-threatening emergency, under federal law they are *required* to treat me (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMTALA). In my opinion, that law is in place because as a society, we value some things (like life) over money.

Now, this is a property issue, but one that is also a threat to life (e.g., it spread to a neighbor's house). I don't think it is such a black-and-white issue as you make it out to be (no offense).

Groceries? Probably not an emergency. And if I can't afford groceries, I can apply for food stamps or go to food pantries. Gasoline? I can take public transportation, I can bike, or I can walk. Car accident with no insurance? I will be held financially responsible for damages *after the fact*.

Here's an idea. In most areas (mine included) things like fire protection are paid for by taxes. In areas where they are not, why not have it be a pay-after-the fact situation? You don't pay anything unless your house burns down, then you're hit with a big bill. Not how I think it should be done (I prefer my taxes to pay for services like this), but it makes more sense than how *this* situation played out.

 

[RLynne]

Well, I guess the government can have nursing aids for everyone because we're all too damn lazy to even wipe our noses. We want every freedom imaginable, just let someone else pay for it please.

I think that there are some things that it just makes more sense to be provided through the government and funded by taxes, not through individual payment. Case in point: I don't have kids and don't plan on ever having any. I own a condo. Therefore, my property taxes fund the local school system. I could say that this is of no benefit to me, since I'll never have to pay for private eduction...but I beleive it *is* to my benefit to have a well-educated citizenry, so I don't begrudge a penny of my taxes going to schools (and I've never yet voted against a referendum to raise taxes for schools).

In this case: because the service was not something provided to all, the neighbor may well have incurred damages that they would not have otherwise--it seems quite possible that had the fire department fought the original fire, it would *not* have spread to the neighbors house.

It's not that I think 'someone else [should] pay', it's that it makes sense to have shared services paid for from a common revenue stream.

 

[reportertype]

I can understand the city wanting county residents to chip in for fire coverage. However, this fee stuff is dumber than a bag of hair. All they need to do is say to the COUNTY government, in Texas that would be the Board of Commissioners: We will provide fire service to the entire county. You pay us *advertiser censored* amount. The county, in turn, assesses county taxes. Money from those taxes pays the city's fee. This pay as you go setup is nuts.

That way, no one can "opt" in or out. And just as in all jurisdictions I am aware of, service is provided even if someone is behind on taxes. You handle that with liens, etc.

 

[cbanning]

I can understand the city wanting county residents to chip in for fire coverage. However, this fee stuff is dumber than a bag of hair. All they need to do is say to the COUNTY government, in Texas that would be the Board of Commissioners: We will provide fire service to the entire county. You pay us *advertiser censored* amount. The county, in turn, assesses county taxes. Money from those taxes pays the city's fee. This pay as you go setup is nuts.

That way, no one can "opt" in or out. And just as in all jurisdictions I am aware of, service is provided even if someone is behind on taxes. You handle that with liens, etc.

Exactly. The county should be responsible for the lack of fire protection.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Exactly. The county should be responsible for the lack of fire protection.

Like I said I have never heard of this fee.

I live in a rural area in my county but we have up to date fire stations spread out over the county.

That is one of the reasons we pay high taxes but it certainly is worth it.

IMO

 

[White Rain]

This just breaks my heart...let me just tell you as someone who knows that $75.00 is a HUGE amt. to some people.
My hubby made 900/wk at one point and now he makes just over 400/wk...I make pots of soup and spaghetti every week, things that will stretch out over 3 or 4 days to feed us...we eat alot of ramen noodles and mac n cheese also...it really sucks but it's life for us right now.
I would just absolutely HATE to see all my things burned...my pictures, my scrapbooks, etc...because I couldn't afford to pay the fee...
A fee which some people say omg, it's only $75 a year, but that $75 a year you scoff at could be a HUGE amt. for some people.
I guess I would just have to be fired if I were a fireman in this situation...there is NO WAY POSSIBLE I could stand by and watch whether my job was on the line or not.

 

[Charlie09]

This just breaks my heart...let me just tell you as someone who knows that $75.00 is a HUGE amt. to some people.
My hubby made 900/wk at one point and now he makes just over 400/wk...I make pots of soup and spaghetti every week, things that will stretch out over 3 or 4 days to feed us...we eat alot of ramen noodles and mac n cheese also...it really sucks but it's life for us right now.
I would just absolutely HATE to see all my things burned...my pictures, my scrapbooks, etc...because I couldn't afford to pay the fee...
A fee which some people say omg, it's only $75 a year, but that $75 a year you scoff at could be a HUGE amt. for some people.
I guess I would just have to be fired if I were a fireman in this situation...there is NO WAY POSSIBLE I could stand by and watch whether my job was on the line or not.

if someone owns a house, they should be able to afford $6.25 a month to pay for fire protection.

 

[LinasK]

if someone owns a house, they should be able to afford $6.25 a month to pay for fire protection.

And why exactly couldn't the county then have tried to bill them after they saved their house???:waitasec:

 

[White Rain]

if someone owns a house, they should be able to afford $6.25 a month to pay for fire protection.

You never know what goes on in people's lives. Enough said.

 

[Charlie09]

And why exactly couldn't the county then have tried to bill them after they saved their house???:waitasec:

Why should they? They clearly knew, and they clearly ignored the option.
There are consequences for actions -
There is personal responsibility - they chose to not accept it.

 

[Charlie09]

You never know what goes on in people's lives. Enough said.

Has anyone indicated that there was a financial issue with the people in the story?

 

[LinasK]

Why should they? They clearly knew, and they clearly ignored the option.
There are consequences for actions -
There is personal responsibility - they chose to not accept it.

You don't know that they ignored it, nor do you know what their financial situation was. Maybe it was a choice between paying the $75 and going hungry... $75 is a week's worth of groceries for my family. Also fire protection should be everyone's responsibility, regardless of their ability to pay or not, much like healthcare. You don't deny a person the right to emergency care based on their ability to pay. The county should be responsible and it needs to come out of taxes. Our firefighters overlap districts- city/county/state and we help out across the state!
Also, the homeowner tried to pay up at the time of the fire and the chief denied him, insistent on teaching him a lesson at the expense of 4 pets in the home who lost their lives!!!:furious:

 

[Charlie09]

You don't know that they ignored it, nor do you know what their financial situation was. Maybe it was a choice between paying the $75 and going hungry... $75 is a week's worth of groceries for my family. Also fire protection should be everyone's responsibility, regardless of their ability to pay or not, much like healthcare. You don't deny a person the right to emergency care based on their ability to pay. The county should be responsible and it needs to come out of taxes. Our firefighters overlap districts- city/county/state and we help out across the state!
Also, the homeowner tried to pay up at the time of the fire and the chief denied him, insistent on teaching him a lesson at the expense of 4 pets in the home who lost their lives!!!:furious:

and for $75.00 all of that could have been avoided

 

[LinasK]

and for $75.00 all of that could have been avoided

I re-iterate: Maybe it was a choice between paying the $75 and going hungry... $75 is a week's worth of groceries for my family.
P.S. Not everyone who owns a house is wealthy- my neighbor inherited his house from his parents, we bought a foreclosure, the only thing we could afford. Since we've lived here, our house has quadrupled in price. There's no way we could have bought this house since the value went way up!

 

[White Rain]

I re-iterate: Maybe it was a choice between paying the $75 and going hungry... $75 is a week's worth of groceries for my family.
P.S. Not everyone who owns a house is wealthy- my neighbor inherited his house from his parents, we bought a foreclosure, the only thing we could afford. Since we've lived here, our house has quadrupled in price.

It's a week and a half's worth for my family the way I have been cooking lately.

 

[Charlie09]

I re-iterate: Maybe it was a choice between paying the $75 and going hungry... $75 is a week's worth of groceries for my family.
P.S. Not everyone who owns a house is wealthy- my neighbor inherited his house from his parents, we bought a foreclosure, the only thing we could afford. Since we've lived here, our house has quadrupled in price. There's no way we could have bought this house since the value went way up!

Seems like an awful lot of projection...I see nothing in any source I've looked at that says they couldn't have afforded the 75 per year. I see they "chose not to". They gambled and lost - that's a sucky lesson to have to learn.

 

[RLynne]

I feel like I'm about to nudge this thread further off-topic...but Charlie09, can I ask--are there any services that you think the government should provide? If you don't want to answer, that's cool too. I'm just curious.