Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #11 One Suspect Dead; One in Custody

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katydid23 said:
Were these 'details' about the shooting coming from Law Enforcement? It seems to me they were written by the press, and unconfirmed sources, which means they could have been just made up to fill in the story.

I have not seen anywhere that it was an FBI agent saying it was an ice pick and then saying it was a broom handle. Have you?
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You are absolutely correct.
But that point just keeps being ignored.
 
The FBI agent was in kind of a lose/lose situation. He could have allowed the suspect to attack him and gain hold of his weapon and kill them both. He would be castigated and criticized heavily for that, no doubt. People saying that he was stupid for allowing a Jihadist anywhere near his weapon in close quarters. But when he responds to a physical assault with deadly force, as is proper protocol, he is maligned as well. Lose/Lose proposition, imo.
 
Originally Posted by katydid23
Were these 'details' about the shooting coming from Law Enforcement? It seems to me they were written by the press, and unconfirmed sources, which means they could have been just made up to fill in the story.

I have not seen anywhere that it was an FBI agent saying it was an ice pick and then saying it was a broom handle. Have you?
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Kimberlyd125 said:
You are absolutely correct.
But that point just keeps bring ignored.
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FBI could clear things up by clarifying what was the weapon used. Why the silence?
 
He also had a head injury.

I can't find that report.
Anybody have a link???
I had it but can't find it.
 
CARIIS said:
Think how much more we would know if they used a tazor!
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OR the agent might have died. Tazers do not always work if the attacker is on steroids or drugs or very amped up. In spite of the taser, the suspect MIGHT have been able to grab the agents weapon and kill them both.
 
KarmaGet'em said:
CARIIS - Lots of points. Sometime when I have more time I will respond to other parts, but I wanted to respond to the taser questions above.

Here is a link to the Police Chief Magazine study on level of use of force.
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=2204&issue_id=92010
There is a table that lists the use-of-force continuum adapted from the Orlando Police Department's Resistance and Response Continuum.

Suspect resistance Officer use of force
1. No resistance 1. Officer presence
2. Verbal noncompliance 2. Verbal commands
3. Passive resistance 3. Hands-on tactics, chemical spray
4. Active resistance 4. Intermediate weapons: baton, Taser, strikes, nondeadly force
5. Aggressive resistance 5. Intermediate weapons, intensified techniques, nondeadly force
6. Deadly-force resistance 6. Deadly force

The definition of levels of resistance was also provided:

Passive Resistance The subject fails to obey verbal direction, preventing the officer from taking lawful action.
Active Resistance The subject’s actions are intended to facilitate an escape or prevent an arrest. The action is not likely to cause injury.
Aggressive Resistance The subject has battered or is about to batter an officer, and the subject’s action is likely to cause injury.
Deadly-Force Resistance The subject’s actions are likely to cause death or significant bodily harm to the officer or another person.

So, I think we can all agree that IT's level of resistance was not any of 1-4. (None, Verbal, Passive or Active Resistance). The question remains was it Aggressive or Deadly-Force? Were his actions, as a trained MMA fighter, with some sort of weapon assaulting the agent, likely to cause injury or likely to cause death?

These are the thought processes the officer must have in a split second when the attack occurred. Did they make the right choice? I do not have enough information to know. Should they have used a taser? Depends on whether they thought IT was likely to cause death or significant bodily harm on the agent.
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Thanx for post informative. Where we disagree is you go 5 I would go 4, based on descriptions and what went from near death to a boo boo - it needed a couple of stitches.
 
CARIIS said:
Thanx for post informative. Where we disagree is you go 5 I would go 4, based on descriptions and what went from near death to a boo boo - it needed a couple of stitches.
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It is not merely a 'boo boo' when a murder suspect launches himself at an armed federal agent. That calls for immediate action to protect one's own life.
 
CARIIS said:
His dream was taken away from him midstream when they decided he could not box any longer cause he was not American enough.


It was a blow the immigrant boxer could not withstand: after capturing his second consecutive title as the Golden Gloves heavyweight champion of New England in 2010, Tamerlan Anzorovich Tsarnaev, 23, was barred from the national Tournament of Champions because he was not a United States citizen. From one year to the next, though, the tournament rules had changed, disqualifying legal permanent residents — not only Mr. Tsarnaev, who was Soviet-born of Chechen and Dagestani heritage, but several other New England contenders, too.

WOW that is heavy angle I have never heard or thought about.:

"His trajectory eventually led the frustrated athlete and his loyal younger brother, Dzhokhar, to bomb one of the most famous athletic events in this country"
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/u...rlan-tsarnaev-reeled.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



And think about it - people from all countries were allowed to participate in the run ..........lines up IMO
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Aww..poor baby. He could not represent the United States because he was not a citizen. How unfair. I guess anyone should be able to be on anyones Olympic team, huh?

And sure, just BOMB people when things don't go your way. Good strategy. Am I supposed to feel sorry for this monster?
 
Kimberlyd125 said:
My reality is that I firmly believe this is the greatest country in the world.
For many reasons.

What you call a reality check I call a crock.

JMO
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Like Dragnet used to say " Just the facts.........................- did you check out the website pretty impressive.
 
CARIIS said:
Like Dragnet used to say " Just the facts.........................- did you check out the website pretty impressive.
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I don't find many of those lists that impressive. For example, the 'divorce' statistics. I don't find it surprising that we have a lot of divorces. We are a FREE society. Many countries put more demands upon their citizens to remain married, in spite of problems they may be having. At least we have the freedom to divorce and remarry if desired.
 
CARIIS said:
"I heard a couple of loud bangs and saw a couple of cop cars riding by," said Jared Morse, who lives in the area. "They wouldn't let anyone out to see anything or anything like that, so they made us go back inside."


If the danger was dead on the floor why would residents be prohibing them leaving there unit -freedom?

http://www.governamerica.com/black-...bi-story-on-orlando-shooting-begins-to-change
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It's pretty common to clear a scene where someone is deceased. Other wise you'd have a bunch of onlookers in the way. There may be members of his family that get upset or even violent. This isn't abnormal behavior. And I don't see it as trying to hide anything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CARIIS said:
Think how much more we would know if they used a tazor!
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Tazors don't always work and can even miss the perp completely. Why risk your life if someone is obviously trying to kill you? If they acted that way wed have a lot more deceased FBI agents


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
katydid23 said:
I don't find many of those lists that impressive. For example, the 'divorce' statistics. I don't find it surprising that we have a lot of divorces. We are a FREE society. Many countries put more demands upon their citizens to remain married, in spite of problems they may be having. At least we have the freedom to divorce and remarry if desired.
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granted , good point. What ya think about the other findings?
 
KarmaGet'em said:
CARIIS - you make it difficult to know what you are looking at when you do not provide source links.

Regarding the decline to press charges (BBM) - BAEZ declined to press charges but PEREZ did not. Not sure what your report says, but the one I provided a link to says:

Again, here is the link for the report I was looking at:
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/05/22/20130522101332.pdf

Please provide yours so that we can compare.
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Ilost it and tried to find it it was by the incident team but it is not taking me back to the later version I quoted. IT was red! The one that comes back is blue and earlier than the more knowlledgeable later one. Still looking...........
 
CARIIS said:
Ilost it and tried to find it it was by the incident team but it is not taking me back to the later version I quoted. IT was red! The one that comes back is blue and earlier than the more knowlledgeable later one. Still looking...........
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Your right big difference sorry!
 
CARIIS said:
Like Dragnet used to say " Just the facts.........................- did you check out the website pretty impressive.
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There is nothing you could say or a website could print that would change my mind.

It's ok to agree to disagree.

I happen to know I'm blessed to live in the land of the free, home of the brave.
I happen to know I live in the best country in the world.
And I'm thankful for the men and women who have given the ultimate sacrifice so that people like you and me are free to disagree.
 
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