The “roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion”

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by otg, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,724
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    Trophy Points:
    113
    otg,
    Nice post, demonstrates how the evidence can lead you up the garden path. Also no semen found on/in JonBenet which one of the R's might think staging a homicide was a good idea?

    .
     


  2. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    1,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know all about the pillows. I was asking you specifically about what photo you are talking about. The one by the stool was taken sometime after 8:30pm on the 26th. However, the pillow makes an appearance in the earlier kidnapping phase photos as well.

    CS
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  3. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    63
    (rsbm)
    Userid, I understand (and hope others do as well) that you are only pointing out what someone else said about there being fingernail marks. Just for the record, there aren't. Fingernail marks are very distinct and unmistakable (Google it). Others have also claimed to see fingernail marks; so it's very important to understand, because it would mean (as you pointed out) that she was conscious while the strangulation was happening. The only people who have ever speculated this have only seen the photos that were leaked to the public. The first time I saw what someone thought were fingernail marks was the photo that Ruthee (I think) marked up. I've seen it re-posted many times. Here is that photo:

    [​IMG]

    Think about your having a ligature around your neck. Where would you instinctively reach to try and get you fingers underneath it? Most people will reach (if they can) with both hands to the sides of their neck. This is where self-inflicted fingernail marks are usually found. This illustration also points to several spots beneath the ligature (not a very effective method for pulling the at the cord above them). I'll also point out before someone else does that the spot labeled "stun gun mark" is actually a small mole that JonBenet had on her neck.

    There is no medical examiner who actually saw the injuries first-hand who called any of these agminated petechiae fingernail marks. Despite his many procedural failures, Dr. Meyer was certified as a Forensic Pathologist. I really do believe he would have recognized fingernail marks on her neck. All we have to look at are these several blurry photos that probably wouldn't be very good for identifying details, but all of the petechiae and "congestion" can be attributed to the ligature strangulation.


    Tadpole12 posted a portion of a helpful article above. The link provided in that post is the full article. If anyone is interested in reading more on the subject, here is another link:

     

    Attached Files:

  4. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    1,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The one in charge. The one who stood to lose the most.
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  5. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    1,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I never mentioned a specific photo in any of my posts specifically; I only mentioned the pillow as a subject. There was a pillow photographed in the kidnapping stage, but again, the time was never indicated as to when it was photographed or when the pillow was put there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the kidnapping stage was anywhere from 6 am to 2 pm (approximations). That was my only point. Does the photo you are referring to have a time stamp on it? Or is it just during the "kidnapping" phase?
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  6. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    1,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks OTG, I hope so too, because I fully agree with you. I do not believe those are fingernail marks at all. I always take what the original forensic pathologist concluded over others who have simply and strictly used photographic evidence to form their conclusions. If memory serves, JBR did have her own flesh beneath her fingernails, but I imagine all children do so (what child has good hand-washing habits, even if he/she does wash their hands often?); and I imagine the original pathologist would have been able to determine if that was from reaching for the binding or simply over a period of time. I suppose I could be wrong about that -- as I am not trained specifically on the subject -- but that's my opinion.
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  7. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    1,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There was a pillow photographed sometime in the morning during the kidnapping phase. There was also a pillow photographed on the counter after 8pm in the 26th.
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  8. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    1,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When in the morning? That's the question.
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  9. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,806
    Likes Received:
    12,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @ otg
    Compared to even a few years ago, there is a plethora of information and photos wrt to strangulation, asphyxiation available online.
     
    Chelly likes this.
  10. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,724
    Likes Received:
    3,085
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Cottonstar,
    There are slight differences between otg's post and the details in JonBenet's crime-scene but I think the general outline is the same : e.g. if you just go by the surface detail then you might get fooled?

    I reckon there was a minimum of two stagings, possibly three, this discounts JR's tweaks later that morning.

    The main questions are, compared to otg's post are:

    1. Did JonBenet die accidently?

    2. Was JonBenet really sexually assaulted, or was it Vaginal Trauma as described by Steve Thomas in his book?

    Why would any parent deny JonBenet medical access and then extensively stage her death in a wine-cellar?

    .
     
    Tadpole12 likes this.
  11. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Victimologist

    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    1,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1. It wasn’t accidental, nor was it premeditated. It was emotional and anger filled, a heat of the moment situation that got out of control.

    2. She was sexually assaulted.

    3. This is a long complicated answer, but not as complicated as you think.
     
  12. archieil

    archieil On Time Out

    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    What do you think:
    [​IMG]
    I am waiting for English correction to post full information on my page but I hope for some arguments from you about this idea.
     

    Attached Files:

    Tadpole12 likes this.
  13. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,806
    Likes Received:
    12,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @ A What do you think:

    The concept is twisted and perverse.
    The image is passive, ripe with exaggeration and misrepresentation.
    Maybe the grotesque lies in the intent?
    or the process?
     
    SarahThePrincess likes this.
  14. archieil

    archieil On Time Out

    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    My idea was that he was thinking to help her/call the 911...

    and this one was close to bandaging her head...

    On the other hand, it was "remote". No close contact with the body at the moment of strangulation.

    It matches my idea of the murderer.

    P.S. I think that most marks on her neck were made in 1 stage at the moment of strangulation. Round mark of the "burning" could be post-death, the same as the idea of hitting her with some "round" object in the head (latest JBI notes).

    P.S.2 If he had some contact with doctors doing autopsies... These marks were made with some thoughts about a new autopsy knowledge for such incidents.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    SarahThePrincess likes this.
  15. SarahThePrincess

    SarahThePrincess Former Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Very shi**t acting also. That ‘Hurry! Hurry! Hurry!’
    Very fake and construed.
    Thank G-d she wasn’t trying to get into Hollywood via Weinstein.
    He would have fallen from his perch a lot faster, if he’d have tried to back PR as an actress.
     
    Cottonstar likes this.
  16. SarahThePrincess

    SarahThePrincess Former Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Oh!
    Brilliant point!
    Wow!!!!
     
    midwest mama likes this.
  17. SarahThePrincess

    SarahThePrincess Former Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    33
    That lady who posted Jonbenets’ autopsy photos, there were photos in there when she was still alive and walking around with those same small circular taser? Marks?
     
  18. archieil

    archieil On Time Out

    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    similar marks on a leg?

    I have enough of these pictures.
     
    SarahThePrincess likes this.
  19. SarahThePrincess

    SarahThePrincess Former Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I hope then that this entanglement of legal issues leases to JBRs’ killers’ arrest
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice