The Abduction October 22, 1989

[Sutton]

Re the Monte Carlo in the afternoon.

Can anyone explain why a car looking to abduct children would go down a driveway where no children live?

Why would they return ?

From the People magazine article posted up thread by Bessie:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20115979,00.html

Patty Wetterling, 40, and her husband, Jerry, 41, were at a party when the boys called to ask if they could make the one-mile trip to the store, and Patty wasn't going to let them do it. "But then they called back," Patty remembers, "and Jerry said they could if they wore reflective clothing, carried a flashlight and all stayed together. We thought we were protecting them from everything."

Is it possible someone at the party overheard Patty and Jerry discussing the boys' trip and left the party or even contacted a friend to abduct one of the boys?

This has probably been discussed many times--I follow Jacob's thread, but have not read every post.

 

[Jbrown324320]

There are 25-50 child sex abuse survivors who have come forward against St. Johns. None of them have mention that this was occurring. It is clear that other pedophiles were operating with success given the number of predators in the city.

I know that movement gained prominence with Johny Gosch's mother from Iowa, bur I don't think you can discount the fact that people from the area did not report it happening--esp given that they know feel enough courage to report that they were victims.

That is because back in 1989 the police didn't believe parents when they said their child was missing. They automatically labled them as runaways unless there was proof of a kidnapping. Yes, usually the kidnapping group used runaways and provided them with drugs and told them their parents would never love them again. But if they had a "special order", they usually went to a city or state that hadn't had a kidnapping in a while not to raise suspicion. Of course the people who were abused by priests didn't know about this. Highly doubtful they would talk about it. Two different groups. Never discount this theory. Please read the articles. It happened.

 

[Jbrown324320]

Sutton, I tried to connect a priest counselor who had supplied childrent to St Johns priests in the past to the party, but was unsuccessful without emailing PW directly. He may have attended or hosted the party P and J W attended. Please see this page: http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/dan-carle-connected-to-it-all/.

 

[mamamumbles]

Sutton, I have asked the same question before too. I drove by the abduction site on Sunday. Drove the route the boys took. It was helpful because I had been off on the surroundings when trying to imagine it before. It had to be either someone who lived locally driving by (who randomly had a gun and mask looking for a victim ) or DR, someone at DR's house, someone who saw them at Tom Thumb and found them on way back, or someone who knew they would be riding bikes that way. However if someone was at party and left the party to get them, again, they would have had to have a mask and gun available. I would still suspect MB/LK, or DR or someone in the neighborhood. No passerby would randomly be on that road. Way too far off the 94. (I had always pictured the Tom thumb right off the exit from 94, but that's not so).

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[chaplain1]

That is because back in 1989 the police didn't believe parents when they said their child was missing. They automatically labled them as runaways unless there was proof of a kidnapping. Yes, usually the kidnapping group used runaways and provided them with drugs and told them their parents would never love them again. But if they had a "special order", they usually went to a city or state that hadn't had a kidnapping in a while not to raise suspicion. Of course the people who were abused by priests didn't know about this. Highly doubtful they would talk about it. Two different groups. Never discount this theory. Please read the articles. It happened.

I don't discount it, there just isn't any proof it was occurring in Stearns County.

 

[Jennifermn]

Totally agree, with the exception of the big ballroom (what's that place called?) with the polka festival going on. That had to bring people in. People who knew DR and Hollinger, and all kinds of others. Right? Or maybe someone can correct me. It's been awhile since we've discussed that place and what was going on there that night. I know we talked about some others in the bands with DR too. There was that one guy who's wife thought he was having an affair with DR and killed him...IIRC???

Here's a pic of the flyer for the Del-Win Ballroom for Oct. 22nd, 1989. It lists the bands that were playing.

 

[shergal]

Here's a pic of the flyer for the Del-Win Ballroom for Oct. 22nd, 1989. It lists the bands that were playing.

While that is a flyer from the Del-Win, I think those bands played the week before. According to ELOC's book (on page 51) These bands played the night of the polka fest:

"In fact, radio station KASM sponsored a Polka music festival at the Del-Win, just a few blocks away from the Tom Thumb store, from 1:00 P.M - 10:00 P.M. on Sunday October 22, 1989, featuring The Nite Owls, Play Mor, The Honey Bee's, and Johnny Helget." (It Can't Happen Here, pg. 51)

 

[777]

....

Do we have a hard number for how many houses existed beyond the Rassier driveway? Do we know where these two cars passed the boys? Could one have been Kevin? Could one have been MF? .

As for houses beyond the abduction scene, not many. Maybe 15 or 20?

MF spotting the boys on the road and pulling a quick abduction by pulling in the nearest driveway makes the most sense to me of any scenario I've heard. No hard-to-believe assumptions needed to make this work. He's already admitted being there. Where there's smoke there's fire.



777

 

[777]

777 I disagree. This very well could be a sex trade kidnapping. Please do not totally discount this theory...

Ok, I hear you. Let's keep all plausible ideas open.

Criminal conspiracies are just very rare. Furthermore, if they're specifically targeting Jacob hanging around the neighborhood after dark on a Sunday night is no way to get at him.

This is someone who saw Jacob that night and made a quick decision to grab him.

I rewatched the Current Affair episode from 1989. The show noted the boys were walking their bikes back. There's also an interview with Aaron on 91st where he points at the ditch and off towards the woods. Does anyone have a frame of reference as to what woods he was pointing at? You would think the perp would want to send them off in a direction that was opposite of where he would be leaving from.

Yes.

It's the woods towards the West of the road. Across the field. The abductor's familiarity with the woods is noteworthy. Kevin, for instance, is very familiar with the woods in this neighborhood as he admits to previously riding around on bike trails and going to various party spots.

Is it possible someone at the party overheard Patty and Jerry discussing the boys' trip and left the party or even contacted a friend to abduct one of the boys?

This has probably been discussed many times--I follow Jacob's thread, but have not read every post.

I think it's very possible that someone who knew Jacob's parents would be gone this night took Jacob. It's just too odd to be in the neighborhood that night unless you knew before hand Jacob would be vulnerable OR you had an otherwise 'normal' reason for being on that road that night.

BTW, one of the reasons the Wetterling thread was split into sub-threads is to make it more accessible, especially to newcomers and especially to those who don't have a couple weeks to read through all the previous posts. Please don't worry that something has been discussed before. Probably the police have discussed the criminal before yet he is not in jail.

I don't discount it, there just isn't any proof it was occurring in Stearns County.

I tend to agree with you. There is a tendency to connect crimes where there is no evidence in place to connect them. If there is a lack of evidence for conspiracy, I say we must assume this is a much more typical loner-sex-offender.



777

 

[human]

Ok, I hear you. Let's keep all plausible ideas open.

Criminal conspiracies are just very rare. Furthermore, if they're specifically targeting Jacob hanging around the neighborhood after dark on a Sunday night is no way to get at him.

This is someone who saw Jacob that night and made a quick decision to grab him.



Yes.

It's the woods towards the West of the road. Across the field. The abductor's familiarity with the woods is noteworthy. Kevin, for instance, is very familiar with the woods in this neighborhood as he admits to previously riding around on bike trails and going to various party spots.


I think it's very possible that someone who knew Jacob's parents would be gone this night took Jacob. It's just too odd to be in the neighborhood that night unless you knew before hand Jacob would be vulnerable OR you had an otherwise 'normal' reason for being on that road that night.

BTW, one of the reasons the Wetterling thread was split into sub-threads is to make it more accessible, especially to newcomers and especially to those who don't have a couple weeks to read through all the previous posts. Please don't worry that something has been discussed before. Probably the police have discussed the criminal before yet he is not in jail.



I tend to agree with you. There is a tendency to connect crimes where there is no evidence in place to connect them. If there is a lack of evidence for conspiracy, I say we must assume this is a much more typical loner-sex-offender.



777

How would anyone know his parents WOULD be gone that night. Even they did not know. It was a last minute decision.

 

[Sutton]

Sutton, I tried to connect a priest counselor who had supplied childrent to St Johns priests in the past to the party, but was unsuccessful without emailing PW directly. He may have attended or hosted the party P and J W attended. Please see this page: http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/dan-carle-connected-to-it-all/.

Dan Carle is a kook. The order rescinding his counseling license revealed what a phony and dishonest therapist he was. I'm sure he caused some patients (especially patient #1, weird relationship there) ongoing damage.

And I see where he encouraged someone not to speak directly of abuse by the diocese. Which is obviously very wrong (and has contributed to the person's problems for thirty years).

I guess when you said you tried to connect him, you meant you could not show his direct involvement in any type of pedophilia. That is a bit of a leap, but he has demonstrated very poor judgement in the past. If he's guilty, I hope you can find more connecting info.

 

[Sutton]

Sutton, I have asked the same question before too. I drove by the abduction site on Sunday. Drove the route the boys took. It was helpful because I had been off on the surroundings when trying to imagine it before. It had to be either someone who lived locally driving by (who randomly had a gun and mask looking for a victim ) or DR, someone at DR's house, someone who saw them at Tom Thumb and found them on way back, or someone who knew they would be riding bikes that way. However if someone was at party and left the party to get them, again, they would have had to have a mask and gun available. I would still suspect MB/LK, or DR or someone in the neighborhood. No passerby would randomly be on that road. Way too far off the 94. (I had always pictured the Tom thumb right off the exit from 94, but that's not so).

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That's good info to consider, especially when trying to rule someone in or out. So what's the theory on DR's actions? He saw the boys walking to the store, got his gun and mask and stopped them on their return home?

 

[Sutton]

...I think it's very possible that someone who knew Jacob's parents would be gone this night took Jacob. It's just too odd to be in the neighborhood that night unless you knew before hand Jacob would be vulnerable OR you had an otherwise 'normal' reason for being on that road that night.

BTW, one of the reasons the Wetterling thread was split into sub-threads is to make it more accessible, especially to newcomers and especially to those who don't have a couple weeks to read through all the previous posts. Please don't worry that something has been discussed before. Probably the police have discussed the criminal before yet he is not in jail...

777

RSBM. Ok, someone on a mission or a local. It seems well planned (just bc so few clues, happened so 'smoothly'), or maybe the abductor was just a natural.

Thanks. I am going to try to review the major ideas in the separate threads so at least I know what I'm posting about

 

[human]

Sutton, do you know DC? How do you know so much about him?

 

[Sutton]

Sutton, do you know DC? How do you know so much about him?

No, I just heard of him a few days ago when Jbrown324320 posted this link:

http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/dan-carle-connected-to-it-all/

On that page there is a link to his license surrender document. It tells why the board made that decision. Sorry if I was misleading in my post, I'm not an insider...to anything ;-)

 

[human]

Any new thoughts on the abduction? How could a stranger know where to send the boys in the dark?

 

[dexter75]

Great Point!

 

[Ifollowthis]

Patty has said that only the locals call it the woods, it is a group of trees that she believes would not be called the woods by non locals I will try to find the link of where she says that. I believe I heard her say it on TV.

 

[Sutton]

Any new thoughts on the abduction? How could a stranger know where to send the boys in the dark?

As a partial answer to your question, he probably just sent them away from the direction he and Jacob were going.

Does anyone know where the woods would be on this picture from Joy's blog? The image is not circa 1989, so it might be a field in the pic, but was trees at the time of the abduction.



http://www.joybaker.com/2013/02/23/dans-story-2/

 

[Wisdom]

As a partial answer to your question, he probably just sent them away from the direction he and Jacob were going.

Does anyone know where the woods would be on this picture from Joy's blog? The image is not circa 1989, so it might be a field in the pic, but was trees at the time of the abduction.

View attachment 82302

http://www.joybaker.com/2013/02/23/dans-story-2/

Answering your question... the woods are to the left of the abduction site pin in the picture.