The aftermath of the verdict *MERGED*

[Freya1977]

Morning all, I'm a bit unsure about the multiple threads at the moment, so I don't know if this is the right thread to post this information,
but was wondering if you've seen this document:

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2014/QSC14-156.pdf

This document could only be released post verdict.

It seems Allison was most likely violently assaulted, but the DT applied to have the Prosecution's use of this evidence restricted/limited at trial.
Doc Watson may be able to interpret further as these are Dr Milne's findings.
Congratulations to the Jury for reaching a GUILTY verdict without having access to all this information. :clap:
My opinion only.

It seems that it was the wording of the possible cause of the haemorrhage that was suppressed, not the actual evidence itself. He did testify that she had a possible haemorrhage from blunt force trauma - seems he just wasn't allowed to infer that it was "from an assault".

Thanks for posting this document!

 

[Aliwonders]

What do you expect from the media?

Oh you are talking about TM :laughing:

Last time I checked she didn't kill anyone or cheat on her partner.
The media is the real grub in this story.

She did cheat on her partner. She didn't leave her partner until after the affair with GBC and she was having an affair with a married man. What makes people think that to snag someone who is prepared to have an affair makes for a good catch!! It is wrong to be unfaithful to your husband or wife. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence but it
still needs to be mowed!!!

 

[ollijack]

If this is the case, then this will explain exactly why she did the interview..With her life in tatters, leaving her husband for a man who is now in jail for murder, she probably agreed to let her ex husband have more access with her kids when she split with him, so she could have more time with Gerard, remember he told her for years he would leave his wife for her. Now she is known to the world as the "mistress who drove her lover to murdering his wife".. Whether this is actually the case or not, this is how she is now known....

Im not sure she will get to stay in the Real Estate game now, who would want to list their house with her??? Would any of you?? I most certainly would not.. How could you trust her to have the keys to valuable assets when she is a proven deceitful person...She will need every cent of that $200k, she does not own her own house, is without a husband, her lover is in the slammer and she has publicly humiliated herself and her children....

I actually think it is the only smart thing she has done for herself , seeing everyone already knows who she is and has a bad opinion of her...She looks like she has put on a lot of weight in the last 2 years ( sign of depression according to Olivia Baden Clay regarding her sister in law Allison) She looks quite unstable to be still so emotional about a relationship that broke up over 2 years ago...

I do not feel sorry for her though, she seems to be sobbing for her own losses and so far I have yet to see her devastated for Allison, Allison's family or her 3 girls......

She would of lost a lot of good friends when she first left her husband, as well as damaged her relationship with her kids, any friends she has made in the last 2 years, will mostly drop off after this week, and she will be left contemplating her life and how will she trust anyone again..

But, this is her own doing and she has put herself in this position.. You know what they say...

If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.....

I have been extremely hard hearted when it comes to Toni, but your post made me think....if only for
her poor sons then yep I can cope with her getting paid for the interview...it may help her set up
a safe home for them....
thankyou for making me think,
I think 60 minutes have done a 'makeover' on her, lots of makeup etc:thinking:

 

[sheldor]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-argued-no-evidence-to-support-murder/5584414

""If what happened was, after she scratched him, she fell forward, bumped her head and died of a subdural haemorrhage, his conduct afterwards looks pretty odd.

"If a death had been an unintentional consequence, no-one in his situation would've done what he did.


"What he did involved disposing of a body in an undignified way, in a manner calculated to prevent its discovery.

"He then engages in serious subterfuge. He lies about the scratches and does more than that. He uses the razor blade to create the appearance some hours later of scratches on the face.

"He then lies to the police about these things and maintains the deception and has never departed from it.

"All the trouble he went to for so long is indicative of something more than an accident that he'd rather forget."

Yes, exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Miash]

My bold...

I think (if I remember rightly) that GBC's family had left the Court and GBC was still sitting there - by himself - with the wrath of 1,000 eyes on him.
EBC had left prior - then the rest of the BC clan followed afterwards. They did not stay to the end. There is something telling in that.
The family did not (like some other profile cases) watch GBC be taken away, making eye contact or trying to say one last word of comfort to him.
I suspect he needed to talk to them as the last parting showed their lack of solidarity.
Something was amiss.

Not sure if this has been clarified as I have not caught up on all the posts so sorry if it has. I was actually in the main courtroom the day the guilty verdict was handed down. I was seated directly behind GBC brother Adam. Yes GBC mother left pretty much straight after the verdict was handed down but GBC father, Olivia and Adam remained until after GBC was led from the court room at which time Adam lent over the rail in front of him to call out "love ya mate" to GBC. Olivia then said to father not to leave the court yet. Wait here. Wait here. Until everyone leaves. I could also see Olivia's reflection in the glass paneling in front of her (behind GBC in the dock). Throughout the whole experience, handing down of verdict, GBC struggling to breathe (which to me was that he wanted to leave the courtroom and not listen to the impact statements being read) and shaking uncontrollably Olivia did not shed one tear or change her expression. Her eyes just darted between GBC and looking straight ahead. Another thing that did concern me was when the guilty verdict had been delivered GBC father did slump in his chair and age about 20 years IMOO but from where I sat I could see that his breathing escalated and it was visually obvious. He was taking very quick deep breaths I was concerned he may have a heart attack or something. He also remained expressionless. I managed to congratulate the detectives while leaving the courtroom for their wonderful work and successful conviction. Also congratulated The wonderful Todd Fuller and agave Mrs Dickie a big hug. She is a very strong, amazing woman and an inspiration to all. Allison will can RIP knowing that her beautiful girls and being cared for and raised by her loving and devoted Mother and Father.

 

[ollijack]

Does anyone know if its legally, morally (ok) for the girls to have to see their
father, he is now a murderer who murdered their mother. I think its sick if they
have to see him MOO

:notgood:

 

[sheldor]

There will probably be applications for custody and access now that the trial is over. I don't know whether there were any temporary orders granting custody to the Dickies or not. It depends upon whether a Court grants him access to the children. I don't know about Australian law but in NZ it would usually be difficult to argue that a father who killed a mother should have unsupervised access but given that his access is going to be supervised for at least the next 15 years, they may grant him supervised access! Hopefully counsel will be appointed for the children and they can express their wishes through them as to whether they want to see him or not. But it will depend upon whether a court thinks it is in the children's best interests, not Gerards. This is all speculative on my part and I don't know what the Aussie law is on custody and access.

Does anyone know if its legally, morally (ok) for the girls to have to see their
father, he is now a murderer who murdered their mother. I think its sick if they
have to see him MOO

:notgood:

 

[DrWatson]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...-argued-no-evidence-to-support-murder/5584414

""If what happened was, after she scratched him, she fell forward, bumped her head and died of a subdural haemorrhage, his conduct afterwards looks pretty odd.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that even IF the tiny amount of granular material found overlying Allison's left cerebral hemisphere WAS a small subdural haemorrhage, it was nowhere near significant enough to be a cause of death. Which is also what Dr Milne thought. The possibility - however vague - of blunt force trauma could not be ruled out 100%, as the microscopy didn't confirm that is WAS a small subdural haematoma, but of course it therefore couldn't confirm that it WASN'T either. That's why Milne had to say he couldn't exclude blunt force trauma. But blunt force trauma of sufficient impact to cause death would be a heck of a lot more obvious than the tiny amount of granular material that was found. Major contusions, decent-sized haematoma, intracerebral haemorrhage, and many other possible findings would have been present if a blow to the head had caused death. Not necessarily all of them together, but several. The decomposition notwithstanding, the signs would have been there, and Dr Milne would have been able to postulate a cause of death.

But as we know - he couldn't.

As I've said before, I know the way Dr Milne works and words his reports, and those mentions that were blocked by Judge Applegarth were just Milne being thorough, but which could - in the right hands - have been used to lead him on the witness stand to imply something that wasn't a fact, just a speculation. Without him having the opportunity to express it the way HE would have. I'm not suggesting that lawyers - defence or prosecution - would put words into Milne's mouth, but it's by what they STOP him from saying that could lead to an inference that he never intended. Hence Applegarth's block of those very specific phrases.

Alioop may like to comment if she is reading...

 

[Curiousasacat]

Not sure if this has been clarified as I have not caught up on all the posts so sorry if it has. I was actually in the main courtroom the day the guilty verdict was handed down. I was seated directly behind GBC brother Adam. Yes GBC mother left pretty much straight after the verdict was handed down but GBC father, Olivia and Adam remained until after GBC was led from the court room at which time Adam lent over the rail in front of him to call out "love ya mate" to GBC. Olivia then said to father not to leave the court yet. Wait here. Wait here. Until everyone leaves. I could also see Olivia's reflection in the glass paneling in front of her (behind GBC in the dock). Throughout the whole experience, handing down of verdict, GBC struggling to breathe (which to me was that he wanted to leave the courtroom and not listen to the impact statements being read) and shaking uncontrollably Olivia did not shed one tear or change her expression. Her eyes just darted between GBC and looking straight ahead. Another thing that did concern me was when the guilty verdict had been delivered GBC father did slump in his chair and age about 20 years IMOO but from where I sat I could see that his breathing escalated and it was visually obvious. He was taking very quick deep breaths I was concerned he may have a heart attack or something. He also remained expressionless. I managed to congratulate the detectives while leaving the courtroom for their wonderful work and successful conviction. Also congratulated The wonderful Todd Fuller and agave Mrs Dickie a big hug. She is a very strong, amazing woman and an inspiration to all. Allison will can RIP knowing that her beautiful girls and being cared for and raised by her loving and devoted Mother and Father.

Wow Miash,
Thank you for this description. I would have loved to have given Mrs Dickie a hug too. : (


I guess you are right, GB was probably hoping to be taken away so he wouldn't have to listen to the people who loved Allison the most.

 

[BigT]

I thought it meant that if GBC would get the money for the interview from TM, then it can be seized. It,s so he can't profit from getting another to do it on his behalf.

My take on this is, if GBC were to direct or request that TM were to be payed for the interview, then that would make her payment a "proceed" and it could be confiscated.

The meaning of a proceed is:
Proceeds, in relation to an activity, includes property and another benefit derived because of the activity—

(a) by the person who engaged in the activity; or
(b) by another person at the direction or request, directly or indirectly, of the person who engaged in the activity.

The payment for interview is derived because of the activity (ie the interview is valuable only because of the murder)

The only thing standing between an application to have the payment seized is the evidence to support an application to seize. It is a civil matter as I understand it, QPS or anyone can make the application, and I would love to see the payment redirected to the trust for the girls.

Someone needs to sleuth out the evidence that GBC has a knowledge of the pay for interview, and all he would have said is that she should be payed for it, a recording of the phone call from AGCC where he discussed the interview with TM would do it.

There is no way he didn't know it was being done, who is to say she has not done it to fund his appeal??

 

[Venus13]

Hope this is ok to comment on, as it's related to a facebook page - we'll see I've just read a post from the Australian Missing Persons Register and the gist is that they offered assistance (I assume by way of posting/spreading the word about Allison) to the BC family on the day Allison was reported missing, which was refused straight up. It's interesting in that the page admin claims it's the first time in 9 years that any family has turned away their help.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...644.1073741827.509702762472925&type=1&theater

Wow thank you for posting this link catswhiskers I am really shocked it just shows we have never been wrong over the last 2 years 3 months about GBC or the BC's it is truly unbelievable how they have behaved!

 

[MsAnais]

Does anyone know if its legally, morally (ok) for the girls to have to see their
father, he is now a murderer who murdered their mother. I think its sick if they
have to see him MOO

:notgood:

It's such a complex emotional situation for those girls. There really are no simple answers to that IMO.

Ideally, the girls wishes are being listened to - ie. if they don't want to see him they don't have to. It certainly shouldn't be forced upon them. That could be incredibly traumatising and cause huge inner turmoil.

I'm really hoping that each girl is seeing a wonderful therapist to help them through this terribly difficult time. There's no way they can deal with something of this emotional magnitude on their own. And if money is an issue, I'd hope there would be therapists who are willing to see them for free, as service work. If I was up there I would definitely be offering that to the Dickies.

Those poor, poor girls. They've lost SO much. Thank heavens they have such wonderful grandparents and extended Dickie family. That will be their saving grace.

 

[Saxons]

The Courier-Mail stopped short of revealing her new name, but all it would take would be for someone to cut and paste bits of her quoted "profile" into google, and very quickly arrive at the real estate agency website it came from.

What's the bet that pretty soon, she will have to change her name AGAIN? :facepalm:

Agreed. Her new name is all over the net.. Very easy to find.

 

[Zanzibar]

But Dr Milne said, "if if it was a haemorrhage then it was, in the context of the examination “the most likely cause of death”.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that even IF the tiny amount of granular material found overlying Allison's left cerebral hemisphere WAS a small subdural haemorrhage, it was nowhere near significant enough to be a cause of death. Which is also what Dr Milne thought. The possibility - however vague - of blunt force trauma could not be ruled out 100%, as the microscopy didn't confirm that is WAS a small subdural haematoma, but of course it therefore couldn't confirm that it WASN'T either. That's why Milne had to say he couldn't exclude blunt force trauma. But blunt force trauma of sufficient impact to cause death would be a heck of a lot more obvious than the tiny amount of granular material that was found. Major contusions, decent-sized haematoma, intracerebral haemorrhage, and many other possible findings would have been present if a blow to the head had caused death. Not necessarily all of them together, but several. The decomposition notwithstanding, the signs would have been there, and Dr Milne would have been able to postulate a cause of death.

But as we know - he couldn't.

As I've said before, I know the way Dr Milne works and words his reports, and those mentions that were blocked by Judge Applegarth were just Milne being thorough, but which could - in the right hands - have been used to lead him on the witness stand to imply something that wasn't a fact, just a speculation. Without him having the opportunity to express it the way HE would have. I'm not suggesting that lawyers - defence or prosecution - would put words into Milne's mouth, but it's by what they STOP him from saying that could lead to an inference that he never intended. Hence Applegarth's block of those very specific phrases.

Alioop may like to comment if she is reading...

 

[Spotted Reptile]

Hope this is ok to comment on, as it's related to a facebook page - we'll see I've just read a post from the Australian Missing Persons Register and the gist is that they offered assistance (I assume by way of posting/spreading the word about Allison) to the BC family on the day Allison was reported missing, which was refused straight up. It's interesting in that the page admin claims it's the first time in 9 years that any family has turned away their help.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...644.1073741827.509702762472925&type=1&theater

I'm stunned. I didn't think this family could surprise me any further but it seems each day brings new insights into their warped and twisted mindset. Didn't they think they had to show concern, even if they didn't feel it? Was their arrogance so high they thought they didn't need to answer to anybody at all?
God the life poor Allison must have led with those delightful in-laws to suffer, apart from her husband. It's amazing to me she managed to raise three beautiful daughters. Her loving spirit and generosity have saved those girls in many ways.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

One thing I think it's important to say about TM is that she was involved with a Class A manipulator, who was also in a position of power within her own workplace and in the industry in general. I'm not saying having an affair with a man who says he is about to leave his wife for you is a wonderful idea by any stretch, but it's not one undertaken from a position of great self esteem either.

 

[ollijack]

It's such a complex emotional situation for those girls. There really are no simple answers to that IMO.

Ideally, the girls wishes are being listened to - ie. if they don't want to see him they don't have to. It certainly shouldn't be forced upon them. That could be incredibly traumatising and cause huge inner turmoil.

I'm really hoping that each girl is seeing a wonderful therapist to help them through this terribly difficult time. There's no way they can deal with something of this emotional magnitude on their own. And if money is an issue, I'd hope there would be therapists who are willing to see them for free, as service work. If I was up there I would definitely be offering that to the Dickies.

Those poor, poor girls. They've lost SO much. Thank heavens they have such wonderful grandparents and extended Dickie family. That will be their saving grace.

Thankyou sweet Isisrising.....that makes me feel better....:loveyou:

 

[ollijack]

One thing I think it's important to say about TM is that she was involved with a Class A manipulator, who was also in a position of power within her own workplace and in the industry in general. I'm not saying having an affair with a man who says he is about to leave his wife for you is a wonderful idea by any stretch, but it's not one undertaken from a position of great self esteem either.

I am totally surrounded by lovely people, Im thinking im a bitter twisted old bag ROFL....thankyou for these gentle
points of view...it all makes me think and that's a good thing xxxxx

:loveyou::loveyou:

 

[BatWoman]

I don't blame Toni for taking the cash, except that it's hardly going to give her the freedom to move on that she wants. Now everyone knows what she looks like (a lot different imo), knows what she's doing, and knows she has a new name (and can find out what it is). People who didn't know will now be pointing her out. And how will it affect her kids?

I won't be watching her self-pity and justification fest. I've seen enough.

 

[BJsleuth]

Does anyone know if its legally, morally (ok) for the girls to have to see their
father, he is now a murderer who murdered their mother. I think its sick if they
have to see him MOO

:notgood:

It's the right of the child to see him. The eldest is old enough to decide for herself. Even in circumstances such as this, those rights remain. The court believes it's important for another reason - so children don't build a fantasy of the parent in absentia which can cause them problems. If it can be proven that he's treated the children badly as he did Allison then there is a case to refuse to make orders that they see him. It goes that just because he harmed their their mother, it doesn't mean he'll harm them. I don't agree with it, but it's the law. The children will have a court appointed, independent advocate in any proceedings.