The (Alleged) Abduction

Discussion in 'Hannah Graham' started by Enni, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. Enni

    Enni New Member

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    Seems likely to me that Hannah was allowed inside Tempo briefly, though perhaps not to drink. Maybe a doorperson agreed to let her sneak in "just to use the ladies' room" or something, and regrets that decision now that their job & restaurant's liquor license could be on the line.... Doorpeople often use discretion in who they'll allow in or not, and a friendly, pretty girl is almost always welcome. Even though she was tipsy, Hannah appears well-bred and would have fit into the club w/o being obviously underage. (Height tends to give the impression of someone being older than they are.) She was walking around for quite a while that night, and common sense tells me that she would have needed to use a restroom after consuming so much alcohol.

    I also think that she may have been roofied by JLM and that's why she was noticeably incapacitated upon leaving the area. JLM was only inside the bar for a very short time (15 min.), so he likely took the 2 drinks (beers?) outside.

    Hannah seemed a bit frantic by the time JLM caught up to her; he could have easily gained her trust by saying, "Hey, are you okay? You look lost... Are you at UVA? I work in the OR at UVA medical, etc.... I can give you ride if you want..." An innocent wouldn't necessarily see through this kind of game until it's too late. (I learned that lesson the hard way myself.)

    All jmo...
     
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  3. bwt42

    bwt42 Active Member

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    I just can't understand why most posters think that HG had to be drunk or tricked to be in the company of JLM. She was with him for a considerable time out in public. She could have left or asked others for help. I have every reason to believed she stayed with him because she wanted to. I also think she left with him & wherever they went was of her own free will. I have seen nothing to make me think otherwise. Again, if you disagree, what do you see him doing that's makes you think she was being forced to be with him?
     
  4. SassyFras

    SassyFras New Member

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    (Modsnip)

    I can't speak for others on whether or not they assume she was forced to be with JM. Personally, I'm NOT saying that she was "forced" to stay with JM at Tempo. What I am saying is that she was noted to be drunk and therefore not making sound judgements. And I completely disagree with your assessment that she spent a "considerable amount of time" with JM in public. At the outset, she was in public within his company from 1:08 am to 1:45 am (appx), That's less than 40 mins and not a "considerable amount of time".

    For all we know, he could have offered her a ride home and she accepted. She was intoxicated and not making sound judgements. It is NEVER sound judgement to get into the vehicle of someone you've known for 40 mins and who has been drinking. That's not a knock on JM. He could have been Chris Helmsworth and it still wouldn't have been sound judgement. It becomes an issue of force when JM is the last person to see her and she disappears from the planet, he refuses to answer questions and he goes on the run to Texas. Not a lot of room for holes in that logic.

    MOO.
     
  5. JenJones

    JenJones New Member

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    Hi Everybody! My apologies if this has been discussed previously, I've read and read and don't see it. Long time lurker, btw. I've had a few handles since Trenton Duckett went missing, don't post much. Anyway, Hannah was last seen with JLM at Tempo at 1:45 on 9/13. Do we know when the next time JLM was seen? What was he doing Saturday? Thanks in advance.
     
  6. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    What were the events and circumstances leading up to the alleged abduction?

    Theories and discussion go here.

    (Discussion about what occurred inside of Tempo's belongs in that thread.)
     
  7. Psychedelia

    Psychedelia New Member

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    I remember having some weird dreams on Ambien, but nothing too crazy. I was out like a light and woke up feeling pretty refreshed in the morning. It was prescribed to me while I was adjusting to a new antidepressant and having trouble sleeping.

    I have a pretty high tolerance for drugs though. Alcohol is another story. An ex-boyfriend of mine took Rohypnol in college once for fun, and he ran around in a playground, swinging and having fun... but the next day he barely remembered any of it; his roommates had to tell him everything that went on.

    I'm in my early 40s now, but I was a moderate partier in my college days, and am still a regular pot smoker, FWIW. I was street-smart, but still got myself into some stupid situations that could have easily gone bad, and a couple in my teen years that did go kind of bad -- but I learned from them and moved on. Suffice it to say I've been around, and after reading this article: http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

    I'll just say that LJ is a real predator. When you're a woman who knows what's up, you recognize them instantly. Had I been drunk, I'd have had no chance against someone like him, even in public, street-smart or not. That's what's truly frightening. Stone cold sober, yeah, I'd tell him to eff off and still be a little scared because of his sheer size and I'm sure he didn't come across as stable, especially while he was drinking. Hannah was like fresh meat to a tiger as far as he was concerned. These kinds of guys can SMELL any kind of weakness, from how many drinks you have, to low self-esteem, to being able to tell you're angry at a boyfriend -- you name it. And you know what's really scary? I don't think mister WG - our witness who was also following her on video - was any different. LJ was simply better at it and swooped in first.
     
  8. MamaJoJo

    MamaJoJo Where did you go?

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    I completely agree, Psych. Hannah never stood a chance.
     
  9. Mica

    Mica Well-Known Member

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    I'm in ageeement, too. IMO, based on the description of JM's behavior that night, he was in predator mode and was seeking prey. He was dismissed by other women that night which must have added fuel to his fire. Then poor Hannah came along. She was heavily intoxicated (as described by a witness) and became easy bait for this predator.



    A refresher from a previously posted article regarding JM's behavior that fateful evening/morning....

    <Snip>

    &#8220;He kept trying to put his hands on my legs, above and below the knee,&#8221; the young woman says. &#8220;He&#8217;d been way too aggressive all night, putting his arm around me, picking me up, putting his hands on my legs. I looked at him and told him to keep his hands off of me.&#8221; They were in Tempo Restaurant on Fifth Street in downtown Charlottesville. It was shortly after midnight, in the early morning hours of Saturday, September 13.

    What I have learned is this: throughout the night, LJ Matthew demonstrated a troubling lack of respect for the physical boundaries of women and men&#8212; or perhaps even a deeper lack of understanding that those boundaries exist.

    Unprovoked, he suddenly grabbed a man in the Blue Light Grill and wrenched him into a wrestling hold so forcefully that he pulled the man&#8217;s hamstring, leaving this man limping for days. In the first few seconds of meeting two women for the first time, he yanked them up off the ground and threw them over his shoulders and laughed, making them uncomfortable and embarrassed. He continued to follow both these women, at the Blue Light and later at the Tempo restaurant, putting his arm around them, his face uncomfortably close to theirs, touching their backs, their hair, their faces, their legs&#8212; until one of them cursed at him to stop. After one of the women slipped off the boots she was wearing, LJ unexpectedly pulled off her socks, saying he wanted to see her toes. A friend of LJ&#8217;s for over nine years described him as a &#8220;prowler,&#8221; clarifying his use of the word by adding, &#8220;which is not to say he was looking for a victim, but looking for a girl who&#8217;s already compromised a little bit, maybe improve his chances.&#8221;

    http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/
     
  10. Appmama

    Appmama New Member

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    I have been following this story from day one, as it broke on the heels of a missing person / suicide at my daughter's school. It immediately caught my attention. Thus far, I have not thrown in my two cents, but here goes. I'm am going to assume that many of the posts regarding this beautiful child and her erratic behavior on the evening of Sept. 13 are offered by those who have never been under the influence of mind altering drugs, blackout amounts of alcohol, or associated with people that have. This post, sadly, is not. I can completely relate to her actions that night, having been in the same state of mind / condition on oh so many occasions (thankfully, all of this was a lifetime ago). I personally have been in such a deteriorated state that I had no idea where I was, who I was with or what I was doing. And it is simply by the grace of God that I am still breathing.
    If as we are led to believe, HG had been drinking pretty much all day, it is also plausible the she voluntarily / involuntarily also ingested some drugs along the way. According to my college freshman, they are all there for the taking.
    As far as the lapses in time were she can not be accounted for; she may simply have been sitting on a curb talking to a paper cup. Yes, been there, done that. While drugs and or alcohol affect everyone differently, I feel, while she was obviously in an inebriated state, there are drugs that would certainly have given her enough energy to jog all over town while still in a fog.
    By the time she arrived at the mall she was probably crashing. To JM, who by all accounts had also had a few and had supposedly been engaged in some pretty inappropriate behavior, she would have been a very easy target. It appears to me he was trolling, and she may have just wanted someone to lean on.
    As to whether she did or did not enter Tempo, I think that is irrelevant. She WAS there, with him. If she were coming down, he could have propped her against a wall and she would have stayed there indefinitely. Believe me, I know. He may have promised a ride, more drink, more drugs, or possibly came out of the club, thought, wow, she's still here, why not. After that, ????
    What breaks my heart is that even with the seemingly endless encounters she had during the evening, no one intervened. One person could have changed the course of this whole story.
    So sorry for the rambling....this is of course JMO.
     
  11. MidgeC

    MidgeC New Member

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    For now, I agree that it was a crime of opportunity. The one thing I can't figure out though is why JM would take HG into a bar filled with people, if he was intending something nefarious. And I have to believe that JM and HG as a couple would stand out like a sore thumb in a place like Tempo.
     
  12. ninij9

    ninij9 Well-Known Member

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    Could be, just maybe, he was thinking "I'm gonna hit that tonight". Much more sense than "I'm gonna kill her tonight". He was possibly proud of his score and brought her in because he felt great that a gorgeous young coed was having drinks with him. Then when he did/didn't drug her to insure "hitting it" (my guess he's done THAT before) and left I think she either rebuffed his advances, or maybe overdosed after he was done taking advantage. This is only my opinion, but one that makes most sense to me. Bring Hannah Home[emoji17]
     
  13. Tink56

    Tink56 Member

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    This is my question, too. I put together a timeline with LOTS of holes. Feel free to edit and/or add...
    Jesse Matthew-TIMELINE:
    Saturday, September 13—1:45 A.M.—Walking away from Tempo
    ????-Days JM worked
    ????--Video showing JM is aired.
    Saturday, September 20—Midday at Charlottesville Police Station. Went to parent's (or grandmother's) home and took off with mother in the car.
    Where did he drop off his mother?
    When did police intercept the call from Matthew to relative? (Louisiana to Virginia call?)
    From Google Maps: On I-59 Charlottesville to Galveston Island-Drive Time 19.5 hours
    Monday and Tuesday, September 22 & 23--Police estimate he had spent two nights on the beach on Galveston Island. That would be Monday and Tuesday nights??
    Wednesday, September 24—Arrested on Galveston Island.
    Friday, September 26—Returned to Charlottesville


     
  14. Jmm124567

    Jmm124567 New Member

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    Bingo.

    I think HG is probably the type of person who is friendly to everyone and I'm assuming JM said he could give her a ride. It's obvious she did not go with him because she wanted to have sex with him. In her mind it had nothing to do with hooking up. If it did she would be alive.
     
  15. Jmm124567

    Jmm124567 New Member

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    Based on the Coy Barefoot article JM is very impulsive along with hyperactive. He doesn't plan things out. It's all in the moment. This is what got him caught. I strongly believe he has at least ADHD.

    Yeah I think JM wanted to show her off. He seems to lack any real friends. A person like that would definitely show off. I also don't think his niceness is completely sincere I think most of it is a pushover act to gain approval.
     
  16. jamicat

    jamicat New Member

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    Everything I have read about JM points to a person who is comfortable being around someone like Hannah and has done so quite a bit. He went away to college, worked at the UVA Medical Center, Tempo is certainly an upscale place, not a dive, he helped coach football for a private school and was a cab driver. He probably approached Hannah in a way that was non threatening, though likely over friendly, and he was just what she needed right then. Someone offering her a ride that knew the area, was known in the mall, at Tempos.

    Frankly, I am surprised he did anything so stupid when he had to know that he was ided with Hannah at Tempos. It's not like he found her in a dark alley, in a vacuum. He must have had a few words with her and known that she was UVA student. He seems to be very much the impulsive type.

    It 's a warning and lesson to all about drinking and wandering around alone, about going off with someone unknownn. However, I can see how Hannah fell right into this. Personable guy who probably gave her comforting background-hey, I work at UVA Med Center, etc, used to drive a cab, I'll get you right where you need to be.
     
  17. JennyDent

    JennyDent New Member

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    By what we've heard Hannah was intoxicated when she encountered JM so I'm sure he took it as an opportunity to try to hook up with her. And by all accounts he had no problems approaching women. I think he saw her walking on her own, and probably knew quite quickly that she was drunk or at least still tipsy enough to let her guard down. She seems like a nice girl that wouldn't want to be rude to anyone, and with having her guard down probably wasn't as aware that he was out of line by having his arm around her, or putting his hands on her in any way.

    I think he said the right things to get her to go with him, maybe I was a cabbie I know exactly where you need to go to get to your party (if she was really trying to find one) or offering her a ride home if she just had a quick drink with him. I think he very well could have slipped something in her drink since he bought two and I assume one was for her. Or she was already heavily intoxicated (though from other videos she didn't seem so unsteady in her feet). Either way she was not in her right mind when she got into his car either willingly (though it's not really willingly as she was drunk/drugged) or forced.

    If what witnesses have said is true about him having to help her walk after being seen at Tempo then she probably was in and out of consciousness in his vehicle and he pulled over somewhere secluded and took advantage of her. At some point she probably woke up and rightfully started fighting him off and screaming and he probably got mad at her because in his mind he did nothing wrong, he bought her a drink, was nice to her and she somehow owed him something in return and he knew it was at the point of no return in his mind and that if he let her go his life would essentially be over. I think everything happened in his car and that she wasn't in it very long because at this point it wasn't too far off from being light out. If he didn't show up to where he should have the next morning he very well could have taken her quite a ways away but he'd probably have to stop for petrol and I'd hope they'd have footage of him stopping somewhere. My guess is he took her somewhere close by that he was familiar with but secluded enough that he thinks she won't be found. Probably and hour or so from where he lives.
     
  18. hambirg

    hambirg New Member

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    I don't know what Hannah was thinking, but I wanted to say that the idea that if she had sex with him she would still be alive is false. Gary Ridgway's victims had consensual sex with him before he killed them. It wasn't about the sex. He intended to kill them from the very start.

    Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2
     
  19. hambirg

    hambirg New Member

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    Do we all think she got in his car? Judging by LE, it doesn't seem they were able to see her in the car on surveillance. If JM did drug her, he may have been able to force her into his trunk without drawing a lot of attention.

    Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2
     
  20. ninij9

    ninij9 Well-Known Member

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    I think if we are going to conclude JMs involvement, then she would have had to have gotten into his car.
     
  21. Evie Ivy Over

    Evie Ivy Over New Member

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    In the picture JM's friend took of JM and that girl around 12:00, he looked really lit. Not sure how that affected his personality...or how good his memory was when he sobered up.
     

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