UID Victim: The Asian Male, UP9355, John Doe #8, poss. died 1996-2001, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[LindsayLohan6]

While it's hard to find accurate scientific evidence, I believe methadone rots the teeth at a faster rate than heroin. Asian Male, Manorville John Doe & Wolf Hill Road man all had really really bad rotted teeth. I wonder if the Lisk was in drug rehab and possibly was part of a methadone clinic. There is what appears to be a governemnt opperated drug rehab/methadone clinic/mental health(?) facility called North Country @ 725 Veterans Hwy # 151 Hauppauge, NY. Pretty close to Holiday Inn Express.

 

[Emre E]

For the first time, I noticed that (IMVHO) her pupils are somewhat constricted in this pic. Was this a pic that she used to advertise her services? Pinpoint pupils can be a sign of opiate use. Although, if I remember correctly, MBB wasn't reported to have used drugs, which doesn't necessarily mean she didn't. Maybe he is looking for signs of drug use in his victims?

http://theemtspot.com/2009/04/23/rapid-diagnosis-pinpoint-pupils/

That was months ago and my answer is in post #1198. Maureen doesn't strike me as a young woman with drug issues.

One day my sister in law was going to visit us. She called my wife for some gossip when she's on the bus, just a few hundred yards away from our home, then she got off the bus still talking on the phone with my wife she fell and guess what she did? She reported the falling in no second. Why? Because that's what sisters do. They normally share. Maureen is robbed and supposedly managed to take her money back. That is an adventure but she doesn't even say a word about it to her sister? Why? I'm thinking of a possibility that she was assaulted inside the hotel room and let go on the promise of keeping shut, i.e. threatened. Then they changed their mind, found her back.

I'm more intrigued in the mother and the toddler. I believe LISK knows the mother, that's why he didn't bother to take the bracelets that look like gold but not gold.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=10927735#post10927735
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=10930880#post10930880


I believe mother died first then the toddler. Because a baby of 18-32 months has a very special ability, she can speak. That's why the poor baby died.

Since I theorize that it's the same killing crew from Fire Island Lady (1996) to Amber Costello (2010), it's interesting why the mother is dismembered. That may be another indicator that the mother knew the killer(s). That is, if the mother is identified that can lead LE to the killer(s). And I believe these bracelets are on the market in 2009/2010 and there's a possibility that they are sold exclusively online. Something that looks like gold but is not gold will be lightweight. So, selling them online , i.e. eliminating the chance of the potential customer to feel them, would be a good marketing strategy. Groupon sells those bracelets. Walmart also sells a very similar model, not the exact model. On the off chance that they are bought online, there's nothing that keeps Law Enforcement from identifying the victim. All they need to do is to check the account that purchased both items. I wrote an email to SCPD, notified them about the possibility. I didn't even get an automated reply.

I believe that is the same band who killed Eve Eskin Brown, Thalia Stathis, Tanya Rush, Andre Jamal Isaac, and Rashawn Brazzel and two other victims dismembered in Brooklyn. I am suggesting that the Asian Male on Gilgo Beach is Tirrel Santiago.

Tirrel is not Asian, he is Black/Hispanic, I think the forensic anthropologist was baffled with his skull and picked Asian. That's it. Law Enforcement can check the DNA of the Asian Male to see which racial characteristics are present, or more simply they can just put a DNA sample from Tirrel Santiago or his family members. I have no doubt in my mind that Tirrel Santiago is the Asian Male. Both NYPD and SCPD and Namus are notified about the possibility. I am aware that what I'm saying implies somebody made a mistake in the process. It may be hard for people to admit that. But let's assume I'm the one who is mistaken, what keeps Law Enforcement from putting a DNA sample for Tirrel? Nothing.

What happens if Tirrel is the Asian Male?

I believe it proves two things,

1) White serial killers do not usually cross the racial borders. Black killers sometimes do.
2) Young black gay men are killed, that may connect Santiago and Brazzel cases even stronger. In the latter, there is an identified "secret lover".


In Thalia Stathis case, the most important piece of evidence the prosecution has is a blood stain that does not generate a strict match with the victim. How is that possible? That is impossible. The litigation is questionable from start to end. A man is accused of murder but not allowed to speak? What kind of trial is that?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=10954591#post10954591

Long in short, I believe all it takes for bringing LISK to justice is sweat, but nobody seems willing to work. We can continue thinking that LISK is an intelligent, smart, cunning solo guy and that's why he is not caught, or we can admit that LE is doing nothing.

 

[amien]

This victim intrigues me. Considering that all the other victims were female, I would assume that this victim advertised himself as female - that is, not specifically as a cross-dressing male seeking a male. It's common for some clients to want transsexuals or cross-dressers, but since all the other victims were female, I have a feeling the killer wasn't intentionally seeking this experience. Maybe he only dressed as a female during sex work, to gain more clients. Or it's possible that he was transgender. He might have lived full-time as a woman. Maybe he passed very well as a woman. People might have known him for years as a woman. My point is that the description and sketch of the victim might not turn up much feedback because it's not an accurate portrayal at all. They should try doing another sketch and presenting the victim as a "Jane Doe" instead, maybe that would turn up some recognition.

(As a note, if this victim was indeed transgender, I apologize for using male pronouns! But sadly, we don't know.)

 

[LindsayLohan6]

This victim intrigues me. Considering that all the other victims were female, I would assume that this victim advertised himself as female - that is, not specifically as a cross-dressing male seeking a male. It's common for some clients to want transsexuals or cross-dressers, but since all the other victims were female, I have a feeling the killer wasn't intentionally seeking this experience. Maybe he only dressed as a female during sex work, to gain more clients. Or it's possible that he was transgender. He might have lived full-time as a woman. Maybe he passed very well as a woman. People might have known him for years as a woman. My point is that the description and sketch of the victim might not turn up much feedback because it's not an accurate portrayal at all. They should try doing another sketch and presenting the victim as a "Jane Doe" instead, maybe that would turn up some recognition.

(As a note, if this victim was indeed transgender, I apologize for using male pronouns! But sadly, we don't know.)

While the Asian male is the male victim along Ocean Parkway, he's certainly not the only male victim. Dumped with Jane Doe 2000 in Manorville (whose extremities where on OP) was John Doe 2000. Then found a few months after Jessica Taylor but very likely and in my opinion certainly dumped with her was a male victim. There's also another male found in Manorville in 2012. Another man found on Wolf Hill Rd in Huntington, the young man estimated to be around 17 found in the brentwood sump, another male found off the LIE with a steel rod in his back and severe scoliosis. Most notable is Sugar Bear, found dismembered in garbage bags at Rockaway, Suffolk and skull in Moriches i believe in a pond. Sugar bear was also a male prostitute who dressed as a female from East New York and worked in Manhattan as a streetwalker. Sugar bear is clearly the most similar to Asian Male in all respects. My number one question is why was Sugar bear dismembered and spread around, yet left in her skirt? If the dismembering and spreading of parts was done to hinder identification, the killer would not leave Sugar Bear in her skirt. Because the skirt led LE to go asking transexual streetwalkers in manhattan where they found someone who could ID sugar bear, it stands to reason the killer likely wanted Sugar Bear to be identified. If not he would have simply removed the female clothing, which would make the identification alot harder. Essentially he left a clue for Sugar bear to be id'ed. So I assume the same is the case for the Asian Male. It was suggested early on the asian male may have been dressed in a dress to throw off LE, but since Sugar bear was left in female clothing, Asian male likely was also a cross dressing prostitute. Perhaps sugar bear was dismembered not to hinder id, but to send a message. Asian male may have been killed for a similar reason.

 

[deedee21]

I think the killer has an outward hatred towards gay men as a result of a unexpected encounter.

 

[Danse_Macabre]

I'm reposting here:

Hi Rachel & Josh here, some of you may have read we are partnering with Tricia & Websleuths on a docu-series covering 5 unsolved serial killer cases. LISK is one of them and we would like to work with websleuthers in helping to identify the Jane, John, and Toddler Does connected to the case. We definitely understand there's been a lot of time and energy put into this already by websleuthers and the community, we're hoping to inject new energy into identifying. We will have a access to wide television audience who in additional can hopefully help.

I'll be posting to the threads for the other identified, please don't be shy... contact us. We are looking for some lead websleuthers to work with us as well, please reach out. Already we've heard from a lot of you on LISK and other cases. It takes a village!

Best,
Rachel & Josh

 

[Danse_Macabre]

I'm reposting here:

Hi Rachel & Josh here, some of you may have read we are partnering with Tricia & Websleuths on a docu-series covering 5 unsolved serial killer cases. LISK is one of them and we would like to work with websleuthers in helping to identify the Jane, John, and Toddler Does connected to the case. We definitely understand there's been a lot of time and energy put into this already by websleuthers and the community, we're hoping to inject new energy into identifying. We will have a access to wide television audience who in additional can hopefully help.

I'll be posting to the threads for the other identified, please don't be shy... contact us. We are looking for some lead websleuthers to work with us as well, please reach out. Already we've heard from a lot of you on LISK and other cases. It takes a village!

Best,
Rachel & Josh

 

[fieldnotes]

I'm reposting here:

Hi Rachel & Josh here, some of you may have read we are partnering with Tricia & Websleuths on a docu-series covering 5 unsolved serial killer cases. LISK is one of them and we would like to work with websleuthers in helping to identify the Jane, John, and Toddler Does connected to the case. We definitely understand there's been a lot of time and energy put into this already by websleuthers and the community, we're hoping to inject new energy into identifying. We will have a access to wide television audience who in additional can hopefully help.

I'll be posting to the threads for the other identified, please don't be shy... contact us. We are looking for some lead websleuthers to work with us as well, please reach out. Already we've heard from a lot of you on LISK and other cases. It takes a village!

Best,
Rachel & Josh

Thanks guys for bringing new life to this case!!! This is some insight I've received from the Director of MissingPersons.Asia who kindly looked at the Asian victim's NamUs Profile:

If the sketch is anything close to accurate, I would take this decedent to be of North Asian extraction, i.e. Japanese, Korean or Chinese with a slight possibility of Vietnamese.

Really not likely in my opinion to be of Thai/Lao or Khmer (Cambodian), Burmese or Malay ancestry.

More analysis of the "musculoskeletal disorder" might be called for. If it was genetic/congenital, all bets are off. But if was related to childhood malnutrition then North Korea might be a possibility.

My logic on that is to think of parts of Asia where malnutrition was been an ongoing problem problem in, say, 1995-2005 ie. during his childhood. And while there were still hungry children in rural Thailand/Laos/Cambo in those days, most of the Chinese immigrant clans were much better off and more usually urban dwellers than their farm country counterparts from the "native stock".

If there was any dental work done the compounds used in fillings might give you some insight into where the dental work was performed.

Asia produces a larger than you'd expect percentage of men living as women (regarded in Thailand as a sort of "third gender" and called "katoey" here). So it would be normal for "her" to dress in women's clothes thinking of herself as female while biologically male. This victim could also be intergender, having the DNA markers and bone (particularly pelvic) structure of a male, but with other traits that are female. If the female traits were soft tissue, they'd no longer be available as evidence. A genetic issue like this could perhaps also be the root cause of the musculoskeletal problem.

Perhaps we can think on this some and forward more questions to him as they arise.

 

[fieldnotes]

I'm reposting here:

Hi Rachel & Josh here, some of you may have read we are partnering with Tricia & Websleuths on a docu-series covering 5 unsolved serial killer cases. LISK is one of them and we would like to work with websleuthers in helping to identify the Jane, John, and Toddler Does connected to the case. We definitely understand there's been a lot of time and energy put into this already by websleuthers and the community, we're hoping to inject new energy into identifying. We will have a access to wide television audience who in additional can hopefully help.

I'll be posting to the threads for the other identified, please don't be shy... contact us. We are looking for some lead websleuthers to work with us as well, please reach out. Already we've heard from a lot of you on LISK and other cases. It takes a village!

Best,
Rachel & Josh

Thanks guys for bringing new life to this case!!! This is some insight I've received from the Director of MissingPersons.Asia who kindly looked at the Asian victim's NamUs Profile:

If the sketch is anything close to accurate, I would take this decedent to be of North Asian extraction, i.e. Japanese, Korean or Chinese with a slight possibility of Vietnamese.

Really not likely in my opinion to be of Thai/Lao or Khmer (Cambodian), Burmese or Malay ancestry.

More analysis of the "musculoskeletal disorder" might be called for. If it was genetic/congenital, all bets are off. But if was related to childhood malnutrition then North Korea might be a possibility.

My logic on that is to think of parts of Asia where malnutrition was been an ongoing problem problem in, say, 1995-2005 ie. during his childhood. And while there were still hungry children in rural Thailand/Laos/Cambo in those days, most of the Chinese immigrant clans were much better off and more usually urban dwellers than their farm country counterparts from the "native stock".

If there was any dental work done the compounds used in fillings might give you some insight into where the dental work was performed.

Asia produces a larger than you'd expect percentage of men living as women (regarded in Thailand as a sort of "third gender" and called "katoey" here). So it would be normal for "her" to dress in women's clothes thinking of herself as female while biologically male. This victim could also be intergender, having the DNA markers and bone (particularly pelvic) structure of a male, but with other traits that are female. If the female traits were soft tissue, they'd no longer be available as evidence. A genetic issue like this could perhaps also be the root cause of the musculoskeletal problem.

Perhaps we can think on this some and forward more questions to him as they arise.

 

[Damarna]

Thanks guys for bringing new life to this case!!! This is some insight I've received from the Director of MissingPersons.Asia who kindly looked at the Asian victim's NamUs Profile:

If the sketch is anything close to accurate, I would take this decedent to be of North Asian extraction, i.e. Japanese, Korean or Chinese with a slight possibility of Vietnamese.

Really not likely in my opinion to be of Thai/Lao or Khmer (Cambodian), Burmese or Malay ancestry.

More analysis of the "musculoskeletal disorder" might be called for. If it was genetic/congenital, all bets are off. But if was related to childhood malnutrition then North Korea might be a possibility.

My logic on that is to think of parts of Asia where malnutrition was been an ongoing problem problem in, say, 1995-2005 ie. during his childhood. And while there were still hungry children in rural Thailand/Laos/Cambo in those days, most of the Chinese immigrant clans were much better off and more usually urban dwellers than their farm country counterparts from the "native stock".

If there was any dental work done the compounds used in fillings might give you some insight into where the dental work was performed.

Perhaps we can think on this some and forward more questions to him as they arise.

Wow! Good info!

 

[bessie]

New Forum to post about LISK UID's

The Unidentified -->Long Island Serial Killer UID's

 

[b_lab7410]

No offense, but I get the feeling if he was Asian, he may have not received much attention because he was possible run-away, and wearing women's clothes... wouldn't be surprised if he has a family whom due to cultural perception, chose to shun him in his lifetime to some harsh degrees.

It's VERY difficult to have varying sexual orientation for most people, but for Asians, oh my, forget it!

 

[Danse_Macabre]

No offense, but I get the feeling if he was Asian, he may have not received much attention because he was possible run-away, and wearing women's clothes... wouldn't be surprised if he has a family whom due to cultural perception, chose to shun him in his lifetime to some harsh degrees.

It's VERY difficult to have varying sexual orientation for most people, but for Asians, oh my, forget it!

That's a very good point, though very sad.

 

[hot cawfeee]

There is also a population that live in the shadows especially in Queens.....lived there for several years and am amazed how many Asians came in illegally and live to pay off the impossible debt of coming to the US. There was a woman whose name escapes me....she promised jobs to those who wanted to leave China and come to the US for "a better life". Sad yet same story of living several to a room, working for little money and being so isolated from family and friends and unable to create a community and support system of your own.

Sadly this young man may be one of such people.

 

[Emre E]

I believe, the victim found on Long Island in 2011 and defined as Asian Male is Tirrel Santiago.

Here is a comparison of the two

ASIAN MALE is 66 inches
TIRREL SANTIAGO is 66 inches

ASIAN MALE is slim built
TIRREL SANTIAGO is 115 pounds

ASIAN MALE is dead in 2005
TIRREL SANTIAGO went missing in August 2005

ASIAN MALE is found in women's clothing
TIRREL SANTIAGO dresses as a woman

I believe Tirrel Santiago's skull was misattributed as Asian due to his mixed bloodline and that's it. A simple mistake prevents his identification.

Another of the bodies, also yet to be identified, is believed to be that of an Asian male, Spota said.
http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/05/09/jessica-taylor-identified-as-skull-on-ocean-parkway/

The skeleton of an adult male, wearing women’s clothing and thought to be Asian in ethnicity,
http://pix11.com/2014/08/05/the-hunt-for-a-li-serial-killer-revisting-the-gilgo-beach-murders/

Tirrel Santiago
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC1180750c1.jpg

Asian Male
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764

Namus, SCPD and NYPD have been made aware about the possibility for more than a year. A DNA sample for Tirrel Santiago hasn't been collected so far.

NAMUS records for the two
TIRREL SANTIAGO
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9508/53

ASIAN MALE
https://identifyus.org/cases/9355

http://madamestbeatrice.tumblr.com/post/75512841734/the-charley-project-tirrel-santiago
https://www.google.com.tr/?gws_rd=ssl#q=tirrel+santiago

 

[Emre E]

Tirrel Santiago
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC1180750c1.jpg

Asian Male
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764


Police said the Asian man was between 17 and 23 years old and approximately 5- feet-6. The man was missing both his top and bottom molars and one of his top front teeth, police said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island-serial-killer-victim-sketches-released/story?id=14563427

When you lose molars, the jaw bone gets thinner in time. As it is not regularly stimulated by chewing action.

https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...vbDkp3jxgIVBbMUCh0YJQ1s#imgrc=7r45rqieCft3dM:

Notice the indendation on the bottom jawbone on the lefthand side, for both the "Asian" Male and Tirrel.

 

[savemebarry]

Tirrel Santiago
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC1180750c1.jpg

Asian Male
https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764


Police said the Asian man was between 17 and 23 years old and approximately 5- feet-6. The man was missing both his top and bottom molars and one of his top front teeth, police said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island-serial-killer-victim-sketches-released/story?id=14563427

When you lose molars, the jaw bone gets thinner in time. As it is not regularly stimulated by chewing action.

https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=...vbDkp3jxgIVBbMUCh0YJQ1s#imgrc=7r45rqieCft3dM:

Notice the indendation on the bottom jawbone on the lefthand side, for both the "Asian" Male and Tirrel.

I have no idea how these sort of things work so this comes from a great deal of cultural and science ignorance. If it turns out that you are not correct could it be possible this person is mixed but with something besides an Asian ethnicity? I have found just from observation that those who have one parent that is white and one that is a native South American their eyes can look very similar to eyes of an Asian person. Then with the other features it could be those inherited from a white parent. I don't know if this is a really stupid idea but I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Emre E]

I have no idea how these sort of things work so this comes from a great deal of cultural and science ignorance. If it turns out that you are not correct could it be possible this person is mixed but with something besides an Asian ethnicity? I have found just from observation that those who have one parent that is white and one that is a native South American their eyes can look very similar to eyes of an Asian person. Then with the other features it could be those inherited from a white parent. I don't know if this is a really stupid idea but I thought I'd throw it out there.

"Santiago" is probably a Puerto Rican name. If he's got Native American blood that may explain why his skull was not simply an African-American skull, as native American blood is indeed Asian. I believe, the skull was baffling and to create a sketch they kind of "arbitrarily" chose Asian.

If the same skull was painted for a Black man, we could be seeing something very close to Tirrel.

Seems, like the family name Santiago in ENY also has ties to Philippines as well but not sure if those are relatives of Tirrel Santiago.

Tirrel is defined as Medium complexion, sandy brown hair and brown eyes.

 

[pukasonqo2]

"Santiago" is probably a Puerto Rican name. If he's got Native American blood that may explain why his skull was not simply an African-American skull, as native American blood is indeed Asian. I believe, the skull was baffling and to create a sketch they kind of "arbitrarily" chose Asian.

If the same skull was painted for a Black man, we could be seeing something very close to Tirrel.

Seems, like the family name Santiago in ENY also has ties to Philippines as well but not sure if those are relatives of Tirrel Santiago.

Tirrel is defined as Medium complexion, sandy brown hair and brown eyes.

santiago is a spanish name, mostly a name but it can be used as a surname in some countries that were. spanis colonies like the philippines and puerto rico (eg, in my country,peru, is used as a christian name)
there is a lot of mixed race people in south and central america, we have the native population which resembles native american in some physical traits, asian (chinese and japanese mainly), african and european
i agree that trying to pinpoint race from a skull that presents many different racial traits could be baffling and difficult

 

[Emre E]

santiago is a spanish name, mostly a name but it can be used as a surname in some countries that were. spanis colonies like the philippines and puerto rico (eg, in my country,peru, is used as a christian name)
there is a lot of mixed race people in south and central america, we have the native population which resembles native american in some physical traits, asian (chinese and japanese mainly), african and european
i agree that trying to pinpoint race from a skull that presents many different racial traits could be baffling and difficult

You're correct that Santiago is originally a Spanish name, but I see you get my point. Spanish culture goes to both South America and Philippines as part of colonialism.