The BASEMENT WINDOW and GRATE.

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Fran Bancroft, Oct 11, 2004.

  1. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Okay, so what's the deal with the basement window and grate. Some say this is evidence of an intruder...some say it is evidence of the contrary. What say you?

    I understand their was a cobweb on the grate...does anyone know if this was fact of fiction? If their was a cobweb on the grate, could the grate have been moved and replaced without disturbing the web?

    Is the grate significant? Why? Why not?
     
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  3. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Still wondering if anyone has any info or opinions on the basement window and the grate that covered it.:cool:
     
  4. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Smit, the seasoned(not senile) detective spoke with experts who claimed the web could have been reconstructed , the temps in Boulder during the day were in the 50's, if I recall this was important ..these temps. Smit contends that it was easy to open the window and not disturb the web,as well.

    from rmn
    Former Boulder Det. Steve Thomas, in his book JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey murder investigation, described the window sill as "undisturbed." The scuff mark on the wall could have been caused by any number of things in a cluttered basement. An expert suggests that the web couldn't have been rebuilt.
     
  5. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    There was a spiderweb on the grate, but no spider was ever located and that's why the cops had to seek information on what type of spider could have spun that particular style of web. If a spider had respun the web after the fictitious intruder (IMO) came through that way, where is the spider? They don't just spin a web and disappear into the ether.
     
  6. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    I'm glad your post clarified for me that the opinion of the web being reconstructed was that of a spider...it almost sounded like the det. was suggesting the murderer reconstucted the web...that would have been something! LOL

    While I find it unlikely (not being a pro) that a spider would have respun the web that day, I have to admit, that I have been guilty of tearing apart spider webs while relaxing outside with friends, and we've commented in amazement how quickly these guys re spin their webs.

    About 4 weeks ago, I walked a neighbor home, she lives one street below me, on the beach. There is a significant amount of traffic on her street for a small neighborhood. Well, we walked through numerous spider webs that had been strung across the street from bush to bush and tree to tree. We thought it was so odd, that numerous webs were spun across the street. We were musing how long it had been since a car drove by, 30 minutes at most? Well, we obviously broke and walked through numerous webs to her house, I left her in the driveway and walked home-through more spider webs! The ones we had already destroyed were back up!

    So, on the face of it, I would think that the web on the grate makes it very perplexing, but in light of personal experience, maybe it is completely insignificant.
     
  7. K777angel

    K777angel New Member

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    A remote "could have" spun a spider web quickly again that morning does not equate to DID.
    But it's really beside the point when looking at other factual evidence regarding an exit from the house up and out of that window in the basement.
    For just outside that door to the room with the broken window and said grate, is a chair shoved up against the door that enters into that room.
    Thus nullifying any silly notion that Superman's ghost walked through doors, placed a chair up against the door, walked back through the door and went up and out the window.

    John Ramsey stated himself that HE found the chair shoved up against the door.
    John Ramsey himself stated that HE broke that window.
    John Ramsey himself stated that HE observed the broken window opened that morning - yet told NO ONE. Even though he was down in the basement supposedely looking for evidence of some intruder.

    There was no intruder.
    Spider webs are moot points.
     
  8. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    There was an eyewitness who lived at the Ramsey's who has testified to the fact that no intruder came in through the basement window. His name was Agelendidae Ramsey.

    Agelendidae was an excellent witness who didn't miss much, because he lived in the window well where the iron grate was and he has eight eyes. Agelendidae was a spider.

    The Agelendidae species of spider hibernates during the winter. A picture of the spiderweb in question was sent by the BPD to Dr. Brent Opell of the Opell Laboratory of Spider Systematics at Virginia Tech, in Blacksburg, Va. Dr. Opell said the funnel web is that of the Agelendidae and this species of spider hibernates during the winter and doesn't mess with his web from October to March.

    The spiderweb on the iron grate, as viewed by the police, was unbroken and couldn't have been repaired by the hibernating Agelendidae spider. The temperature that night was 8 degrees and a very light dusting of snow that fell that night covered the ground and the old encrusted snow already on the ground. Agelendidae Ramsey, in his own way, said the iron grate had not been moved during the night.

    Later that morning the temperature warmed up and the dusting of snow melted. Investigators eventually lifted the iron grate to inspect the window-well and the broken window. Police photos taken later in the day show only patches of snow on the ground, and grass caught under the iron gate -- but those photos were taken after it had warmed up and melted the dusting of snow; and after the cops had inspected the window-well, trapping the grass under the iron grate when they replaced it.

    JMO
     
  9. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    Fran, please tell me....do you live in, or near Friday Harbor? I'm just dying to visit there...and the rest of the San Juan Islands of course...:D

    Are you sure they were the same webs, or could they have been other webs that you just didn't encounter before?

    Most spiders either die (most only live one season) or hibernate during the winter months. Where I live we have trantula's (very interesting species) and they hibernate as do our black widows and wolf spiders. The daddy longlegs only seem to live the one season....there are no spiders out spinning webs in the winter. We don't get much (most years none at all) snow.

    Spiders are only out when the insects are in abundance. Insects are in abundance during the late Spring, all through Summer, and begining of Fall when the climate is warm.
     
  10. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Well, I've lost my reply to you thrice! I'm frustrated so, I will break my reply down in parts.

    Part 1) I live in Rocky Point. I spend a fair amount of time in Friday Harbor, as I do research in the courthouse there. You will find FH busy in the summer with many tourists. A bucket of water on street corners for dogs, and infront of quaint establishments, too. You can walk, bike, or scooter around FH. I recommend a Mediteranean roof top restaurant highly. It is only open in the summer, however. It's named something like Mousala's-I'm sure that's close, but not precise. You can kayak, wind surf, or take whale watching tours-I'm lucky as I can see the whales from my front porch or window, when they come through. Grey whales and orcas. We saw two adult and one juvenile orca last year-quite a treat. We also have porpoises, which I don't see to often from my home, but I do when I'm on the ferry. There is an oyster bar near the landing at FH if you care for oysters (I don't, I'm a bad scandi).
     
  11. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Part 2) I know the webs were different. The street is small and narrow. We actually watched some spiders windsurfing their web-string across the road. The all went the same northern direction. My friend and I were curious about everything concerning these webs across the road as neither of us had ever seen them in the road before. But, we both also commented on the "windsurfing" spiders, because we didn't notice any wind-but apparently the spiders noticed! The street, by virtue of the fact that many people have crowded their homes in the beach space on either side of the road, has enough traffic that one web would be unusual, but there must have been twenty in a block, plus those reconstructed as we had to walk "through" them to get to her home, and then I again, back to my home.
     
  12. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Part 3) The climate is mild here. Actually, for the second year in a row, we've had unusually warm and sunny summer days. The temperature is in the upper 60's now-still pleasant for here. The corner of the island that I live on has especially nice weather. We have lots of microclimates here. It can literally be raining 2 blocks up the hill from me, and sunny where I live-but the ground is always wet from the moisture draining my direction.

    Because the last couple of years have been so mild, we've actually had more bug problems this year, as they hadn't died off in the winter months.
    This is a very busy time of year for spiders. We know that fall is at the door or upon us when the morning dew reveals spider webs by the hundreds in the grassy fields, knee high, or on the fences, or inbetween the parallel telephone/utility wires. This is likely the time that we will see more spiders than any other time of year. The locals in the coffee shops will (and did just last week) discuss the big ugly spiders coming into the bathrooms from outdoors-WHY do they like the bathtubs???
     
  13. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Okay, Seeker, you're in trouble! As I've been sitting here typing, as if to prove my point, a big ugly brown spider with 37 legs just crawled across my lap! Made me jump, scream, and hang up on the person I was talking with! Yep! We got spiders!:eek:
     
  14. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Cobwebs in the grate: Police have argued that if someone moved the grate on the window well, they would have disturbed cobwebs on a portion of the grate. An initial police report states "cobwebs were observed on the southeast portion of the grate." But Smit never saw any photographs showing these cobwebs. "In fact," he said, "the photographs show just the opposite -- no cobwebs." But, if there were cobwebs on the southeast portion of the grate, entry could still be made without disturbing them. Smit conducted an experiment with Boulder detectives that found that by sliding the grate forward, an opening is created without disturbing the cobwebs. In addition, some spider experts have suggested that the webs could have been rebuilt quickly.
    from rockymountain news
     
  15. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    If the grate can be moved with a cobweb intact due to where it was located, I think the cobweb is a moot point. However, if the cobweb was located where it would have been disturbed i.e. attached to the grate and well and house or some such combination, then it is worth considering.
     
  16. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    What other evidence suggests or dismisses entry/exist from the basement window?

    Scuff mark?...

    Suit case?....
     
  17. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    It is interesting ,as well, that we have been led to believe there was an intact spider web. Later it was discovered that it was cobwebs, and that no pictures were taken that proved even this. There seems to be a lot of misinformation concerning that crime scene, starting with the first lies stating no footprints in the snow and windows and doors secured.
    Under the window there was a suitcase, this suitcase had not been there long as it did not have collected dust that was present on other objects in the basement, there was a shard of glass on the suitcase which indicated to the seasoned homicide detective that someone knocked the already broken window a bit while climbing out of the window. Why did they have to climb out of the window when they had left the door ajar for easy exit? It is possible they were returning the body IMO when they heard the Ramseys awaken in the morning.
    There is a question concerning this window, John Ramsey knew he had used it himself to enter the home, however, in the beginning we were getting police reports that the window was too small for ANYONE to use to gain entry. Later it was mentioned that although he KNEW he had broken it, it was suppose to have been repaired by Mervin Pugh, yet neither Ramsey seemed to recall if it was still broken or if the repair had been made. If it had been repaired this information would be highly important. I don't know if this was ever resolved.
     
  18. Fran Bancroft

    Fran Bancroft Former Member

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    Sissi, if it wasn't simply "bad information" based on rumor and misunderstanding, then it leads me to believe that someone deliberately set about misinforming the public-for what purpose, I would ask? To intimidate the Ramsey's? How cruel, I say!
     
  19. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    LOL! I seem to have that effect on things....

    BTW I guess our black widows only live for one season as well. Widowette (my pet black widow on the covered back patio) is really not doing well. Yesterday she had fallen partway down in her web, so I put her back up higher where she belongs (I used a stick to help her up, not my hand). Today I go out to feed the dogs and she was on the ground! I again had to help her up to her web with a stick. She's listless and not moving so well. It's been in the upper 80's to low 90's here so it's not from the cold.

    As for the info on the cobweb (which is really an old dusty spiderweb) I know it was reported in PMPT and ITRMI as being noticed, but I had never heard of no photo's being taken of it before this. If I have I've forgotten by now.
     
  20. ManInTheBox

    ManInTheBox New Member

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    I can't believe this. It is such a simple concept and yet still this is undetermined. Some say the web may have been rebuilt...other's say it couldn't have so it must not have been disturbed. Some say the scuff mark could have been from an intruder, while other insist it was John's from last summer when he broke into it himself. I think giving the weather conditions the spider wouldn't have bebuilt it. So my theory is the window wasn't a point of entry.
     
  21. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I believe from the first day with "count my bullets" Arndt and "flirted with me"(shoot forgot his name) followed quickly by "Patsy's good for this" Thomas,it was set in stone by egos too big to wear a uniform that the intuition and gut feelings of this police department solved the case, leaving the citizens of Boulder to sigh their sigh of relief knowing they were safe from a killer . The politics of Boulder fed into this quickly, no one wanted to think a child murderer was in their midst, much easier to believe this Southern alien of a woman murdered her own child. It was unprecedented anywhere for the mayor of a town to announce to the public ,before indictments, arrests, trials ,convictions, that there was "not a killer on the loose". (she of course apologized later saying she made a mistake, but who heard this? this didn't scream out the way her first ugly comment did)
    It was cruel, absolutely!
     

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