The bed-wetting theory

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I noticed that most of the people who don't know so much about this case believe this is what happened.JB wet the bed,PR being moody got angry and lost it,accident,skull fracture,cover-up.

    Now except ST's words I didn't see any EVIDENCE supporting this ANYWHERE.

    So I'd like to know what are you basing your opinion (bed-wetting scenario) on.What facts.


    Is there any proof that she wet the bed THAT night?

    Is there any proof that PR was moody THAT evening(witnesses who were at the party,etc)?

    Is there any proof that head bash came first?

    Is there any proof that PR fits the rage attacker profile better than JR or BR?

    Why do you think JR protected his violent wife?Cause I understand that kids are annoying sometimes,still,it's one thing to be angry and another thing to bash her head and then rape her dead body because she wet the bed.

    Who are the ones claiming JB was a chronic bed-wetter and why do you trust them?
     
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  3. greenbean

    greenbean New Member

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    Idiotic question--- was the bed wet? Were there sheets on it?
     
  4. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Mr. Thomas, were

    22 the sheets on JonBenet's bed collected on the

    23 26th of December for forensic testing?

    24 A. I was told they were.

    25 Q. And what tests were performed on



    273



    1 them?

    2 A. I don't know. Detective Trujillo

    3 had that assignment.

    4 Q. Was there any test that you're

    5 aware of that indicated the presence of urine

    6 on those sheets?

    7 A. Detective Trujillo imparted to me

    8 that he had learned or believed that there

    9 was not a presumptive test for urine

    10 according to the CBI.

    11 Q. Were they wet?

    12 A. When?

    13 Q. That morning. Did --

    14 A. Unknown.

    15 Q. -- you ask? Did you ask any of

    16 the officers there, hey, by the way, were the

    17 sheets on JonBenet's bed wet? Did you ask

    18 that question of anybody?

    19 A. I did not.
    20 Q. Do you know if anybody else did?

    21 A. I don't know.
    22 Q. You don't know the answer to

    23 whether they were wet or not?

    24 A. I have been told that they were

    25 urine stained.



    274



    1 Q. Who told you they were urine

    2 stained?

    3 A. Detective Trujillo, Detective

    4 Wickman. doesn't mean they were stained THAT night

    5 Q. Have you seen the photographs of

    6 the sheets?

    7 A. It depends on which photographs

    8 you're talking about.

    9 Q. Of her sheets, of the bed.

    10 MR. DIAMOND: Have you seen any.

    11 A. Crime scene photographs, yes.

    12 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Did they say they

    13 could smell urine?

    14 A. I have been told that CBI says,

    15 yes, those sheets which are still in evidence

    16 smell urine stained.

    17 Q. And did they stain because --

    18 well, you don't have kids, but I don't know

    19 if you've ever had a bed-wetting accident but

    20 when you have children one day you'll

    21 probably know this to be true, urine stained

    22 sheets, were these stained, have you seen

    23 them?

    24 A. I have not seen the sheets.
    25 Q. I mean, you write -- you have



    275



    1 written in your book that JonBenet wet the

    2 bed. What I want to know is what evidence

    3 supports that statement that you are aware of

    4 and that you found out about?

    5 A. Urine stained sheets, the plastic

    6 bed fitting and the diapers halfway out of

    7 the cabinet.

    8 Q. The diapers had urine on them?

    9 A. That's not what I said.

    10 Q. Well, I'm -- diaper halfway out of

    11 the cabinet shows that the sheets were wet or

    12 that she wet the bed?

    13 A. No, I think you asked me what led

    14 me to believe that she may have wet the bed.

    15 Q. Well, I mean it seems to me that

    16 the answer is pretty simple. Did you ever

    17 go look at the sheets? They were there for

    18 your viewing if you wanted to, weren't they?

    19 A. No, they were at CBI.

    20 Q. You could have picked up the phone

    21 and asked somebody at CBI about the test on

    22 them, couldn't you?

    23 A. No, Detective Trujillo told us.

    24 Q. Did you ever see the written

    25 report on that finding by CBI?



    276



    1 A. I don't know that CBI did a

    2 report on whether or not the sheets were

    3 urine stained.

    4 Q. Surely you're not telling me that

    5 the CBI's forensic testers performed, the only

    6 test was to smell and look at the sheets?

    7 A. As I said, I have been told that

    8 there is not a presumptive test for urine.

    9 Q. How about for the substances that

    10 make up or are found in urine?

    11 A. I have no training or knowledge of

    12 that.

    13 Q. How big was the area of the

    14 sheets where they were urine stained or wet?

    15 A. I don't know.

    16 Q. Isn't there something that

    17 describes that, a report?

    18 A. Urine stained sheets according to

    19 Trujillo.

    20 Q. Take a look at page 146 of your

    21 book, please. Down at the paragraph that

    22 starts "John Meyer." Do you follow me?

    23 A. Yes.

    24 Q. "John Meyer, the Boulder County

    25 coroner, had barely begun his autopsy findings



    277



    1 before Lee questioned the urine stains found

    2 on the crotch of the long-john pants and the

    3 panties beneath them."
    Have I read that

    4 correctly?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. To put this into context, this

    7 would have been during the VIP explanation or

    8 conference, right?

    9 A. No, I don't believe so.

    10 Q. I'm sorry, when do you believe

    11 this event took place where Meyer was going

    12 through the autopsy findings where Henry Lee

    13 was present?

    14 A. I believe this was in 1997 at the

    15 Boulder Police Department.

    16 Q. Do you know when in 1997?

    17 A. My best guess would be maybe

    18 March, February.

    19 Q. Reading on. "Were there

    20 corresponding stains on the bed sheets? We

    21 didn't know, although when the crime became a

    22 murder instead of a kidnapping, those sheets

    23 should have been promptly collected for

    24 testing."
    Have I read that correctly?

    25 A. Yes.



    278



    1 Q. Well, you didn't know in February,

    2 are you telling me that you found out

    3 subsequent in time that the sheets were wet?

    4 When did you find out,

    5 Mr. Thomas --

    6 MR. DIAMOND: Go ahead.

    7 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Let me -- why

    8 don't you just tell me, when did you first

    9 find out that the sheets were wet?

    10 A. I do not think the sheets were

    11 collected promptly. I think it was after the

    12 fact. And one of the questions of this

    13 investigation was that no one had checked the

    14 bed on the morning of the 26th prior to a

    15 wet bed possibly drying whether or not the

    16 bed was wet.
    But the sheets nonetheless were

    17 collected and described to me as being urine

    18 stained and just recently saw something

    19 corroborating that when Mr. Smit appeared on

    20 the Today Show and there was a comment from

    21 the CBI about that.

    22 Q. Traces of creatinine were found;

    23 is that what you're talking about?

    24 A. I don't think that is what they

    25 said on the NBC show.



    279



    1 Q. What did they say?

    2 A. I think it said a CBI source said

    3 the sheets were or appeared to be urine

    4 stained.

    5 Q. Let's go back and find out not so

    6 much what NBC was talking about. Let's find

    7 out what the police knew. Were the sheets

    8 collected on December 26th, 1996 or not?

    9 A. They were -- I don't know. I

    10 wasn't there.

    11 Q. What did you find out about it?

    12 A. That at some point during the ten

    13 days subsequent to December 26, 1996, when

    14 the house was a crime scene, those sheets

    15 were collected.

    16 Q. At such time as they would have,

    17 if wet, been dry; is that what you're telling

    18 me?

    19 A. Possibly.
     
  5. greenbean

    greenbean New Member

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    So, no one has any clue at all. Nice.
     
  6. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    The only thing I can add is that you wouldn't purchase pull ups for a six year old child if that child did not wet the bed on a regular basis.
     
  7. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I was talking about THAT night.Where's the proof that she wet the bed that night,it's the reason PR got mad and bashed her head,right?
     
  8. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    How does this bed look to you.Like someone just peed in it?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Honestly, Madeleine, since I don't believe that bed wetting was the catalyst that night, I've never given much thought to whether or not she did. I was the mother of a child who wet the bed until she was thirteen years old and although I was never pushed to extremes by it, her stepmother was a different story. I stopped my daughter from spending the night with her dad because of the abuse she suffered for something that was out of her control. Let's face it, nobody would wet their bed if they could help it, right?
     
  10. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I don't believe that JB went to bed that night.
     
  11. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Thanks.
    I didn't start this thread to prove that RDI is wrong,but to prove that ST is wrong and that this particular theory is pure BS.Maybe RDI but I really doubt that this is what happened and most of all,there is NO evidence of it.I am just amazed that so many people who don't know much about the case but probably read tabloids are so damn sure that PR lost it because JB wet the bed.Where's the evidence,what are we talking about anyway?
    Even IF JB was a chronic bed-wetter,isn't it a bit unfair to jump to such conclusions,ah she wet the bed,PR was tired KABOOM!Nothing but pure speculation,just like L.Smit's stun gun theory.It could have been,it could have been,it appears to be,blah.Where's the evidence .
     
  12. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I agree on the tabloid bs. I don't read them, not even for the entertainment value. I don't believe other's misfortune should be used for entertainment (or to make a fortune).
    It's inexcusable.
     
  13. Roy23

    Roy23 New Member

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    I don't believe in the Easter Bunny. Are there any facts that you would like to provide that makes you think that she did not go to bed?
     
  14. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    My statement doesn't require "facts" about whether or not she went to bed.
    It is a personal opinion. I don't believe she wet the bed because I don't believe she slept in it. Actually, I did word that wrong. I don't believe she slept in her bed that night.
     
  15. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Clothing

    Long White Underwear
    •Description. "There are long white underwear with an elastic waist band containing a red and blue stripe." (Autopsy Findings)
    •Urine Stains on Long Underwear. "The long underwear are urine stained anteriorly over the crotch area and anterior legs. No defects are identified." (Autopsy Findings)



    White Wednesday Panties
    Autopsy Findings
    •Description. "Beneath the long underwear are white panties with printed rose buds and the words "Wednesday" on the elastic waistband."
    •Stains on Underwear. "The underwear is urine stained and in the inner aspect of the crotch are several red areas of staining measuring up to 0.5 inch in maximum dimension."



    This probably means that she wet herself/urine was released AFTER she was redressed,shortly before or when she was dying,right?
    Her bladder would have been empty if she wet the bed BEFORE(while sleeping) being killed and taken to the basement or?
     
  16. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Madeleine, I have a question that you can probably answer. Did the Ramseys turn over the clothes that JB wore when the family made the rounds of friends homes on Christmas day? I have never found that and if you could just point me in the right direction (or tell me) I would appreciate it very much. TIA, Becky
     
  17. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Sorry I don't know but I guess LE collected them?I think I read in a search warrant about the velvet pants being collected but i am not sure now.Dunno about the rest,coat,socks,shoes,etc.
     
  18. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Thanks, Madeleine. For me, the Wednesday Bloomies are probably the biggest piece of evidence. Aside from everything else, I cannot fathom how an intruder would have known about these panties. As a mother of two daughters it's hard for me to believe that Patsy put these on JB (or allowed her to wear them that day), so why did she have them on when she was murdered? Sorry for getting soooo off topic!
     
  19. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    This has always been a confusing issue for me.
    I couldn't find all the info I needed re the panties,not even from the interviews.
    Is it fact that the Wednesday pair belonged to the R's?Was it really new?Was the package ever found?If yes,did one pair miss from it?How do we know that she didn't borrow the pair from a friend?If she put those on that would mean she wasn't redressed that night.How sure are we that she was indeed redressed that night?Did she have her own package of bloomies (weekdays),and so on.
     
  20. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Excellent questions. I believe if we had the answers to these questions, we would probably know for sure who killed her (at least whether or not it was a Ramsey or an intruder). I sure would like to know if the BPD have any of these answers.
     
  21. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to explain that statement, maddy.

    Considerable proof. For one thing, we have the autopsy report itself. Then we have the statements of Henry Lee, Werner Spitz, Tom Henry and Ronald Wright, among others.

    I guess I can't be much help, maddy, since I don't see the bed-wetting as any more than secondary to the crime. Sorry.
     

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