The bubble bath excuse
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Nuisanceposter
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Considering they said JonBenet's measurement of 1 cm was twice the normal size, I'd say half of that.
BlueCrab
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Credence said:
Credence,
The autopsy reports that JonBenet's hymenal orifice measured 1X1 cm. Most doctors say a girl of JonBenet's age and size should have measured about 1/2 that size.
BlueCrab
Nuisanceposter
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Suspending the notion of sexual abuse previous to the night of 12/25...
Someone asked on another board, and if I may paraphrase and ask here - is it possible that JonBenet's opening measured 1 cm because it was forced to that size the night she was killed and stayed that size after she died? Or would her muscles, etc, have relaxed in death and allowed the opening to go back to the size it should have been had no one molested her just prior to death?
Someone asked on another board, and if I may paraphrase and ask here - is it possible that JonBenet's opening measured 1 cm because it was forced to that size the night she was killed and stayed that size after she died? Or would her muscles, etc, have relaxed in death and allowed the opening to go back to the size it should have been had no one molested her just prior to death?
BlueCrab
New Member
Nuisanceposter said:
Nuisanceposter,
Yes, that may be possible, but the irrefutable evidence of past sexual abuse IMO makes it unlikely. The 1 cm hymenal opening is directly related to the missing hymen (which was "represented" only by a rim of tissue that remained) and the chronic injury (2 to 3 days old) at the 7 o'clock position in the vagina.
BlueCrab
Solace, John may have been JB's chronic sexual abuser, but I don't believe anymore that Patsy caught him in the act of molesting JB on that night. Patsy's rage attack on JB may have been unconnected to the abuse.Solace said:
I can neither see see an 'erotic asphyxiation' sex game like Wecht did (for the forensic evidence contradicts this), nor can I see John Ramsey sadistically jabbing a stick into JB's vagina. I'm convinced that the acute vaginal injury was inflicted for staging purposes.
But there is one comment allegedly made by Patsy which I find quite disturbing. Im paraphrasing, but didn't she say while she was in hospital for cancer treatment and her mother Nedra took care of her daughter during that time, even if her husband had had the intention of molesting her daughter, Nedra sleeping in JB's bedroom would have made this impossible, for she would have protected JB?
If Patsy actually said this, this is very odd and raises a red flag imo.
Does anyone remember where Patsy said this and in what context?
She said it in an interview with the National Enquirer - I am almost positive it was the NE. I remember and will try to find it for you. But I was stunned when I read it and I remember it. I even posted it on Court TV I believe and remember thinking if I were John, I would not have liked that very much. She was sick at the time and her mother was staying with John and JonBenet and Burke. She slept in JonBenet's room and also at this time, she did not teach JonBenet any hygiene, such as bathroom hygiene, so that when Patsy came home she had to contend with the bedwetting problem. I will try to find it for you.rashomon said:
The following is an excerpt from the interview.
During The ENQUIRER interview, Patsy admitted she considered and rejected the possibility that John was sexually abusing JonBenet. She openly admitted that during her struggle to defeat ovarian cancer between 1993 and 1994, John and Patsy's sex life suffered. She totally rejects the notion of John abusing JonBenet, but her reasoning is odd.
She said her mother "came to take care of the kids (when I had cancer). She slept in the other bed in JonBenet's room. I mean, if John was coming in to molest JonBenet, you know that's not going to happen 'cause Grandma was right there every night."
Rash, the site is below and if you scroll down about 3/4 of the way the paragraph starts with "During the". Do a search for those words and you will find the paragraph.
Rash, it is a fascinating article. They are just bizarre, both John and Patsy. You have to read it.
http://www.acandyrose.com/04032001enquirer.htm
Nuisanceposter
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Why would Patsy even make a comment like that? Apparently she really liking waving flags that were red whenever she opened her mouth. Nedra was just as excellent as Patsy at saying things that were just bizarre and raised red flags...like how JB was only a little bit molested. The Paugh women are very strange indeed. I'd love to know what Patsy's homelife was really like...I can't imagine an adult neglecting to teach a child how to wipe properly. What else was neglected in JonBenet's life with those freaky Paugh women at the helm?
Solace said:
Solace,
This for me is one of two things, its either a public warning to John, on the subject of sexual abuse, or Patsy knows all about it and is of course denying it, using her mother as a defense?
Obviously what wrong with this statement is why should John confine any abuse to JonBenet's bedroom? Also she is not making any statement about affairs prior to Grandma's arrival and departure?
.
UK, you can look at it this way, true. BUT, what about the fact that I saw the video of Patsy running after John with a huge watergun and spraying him, they were both loving each other at that moment. I sensed only fun between the two of them. Do you really think that would be going on if Patsy had caught John molesting JonBenet? I just don't think so.UKGuy said:
Solace said:
Solace,
Why not, Patsy and John may have colluded to groom and subject JonBenet to sexual abuse, with pageants, and domestic photo sessions, along with recitals and dressing up. Some people consider her illness a catalyst for JonBenet's chronic abuse, its possible JonBenet was acting as a surrogate within their relationship, Patsy had probably disengaged intimately from John, I believe they slept in separate beds too.
.
I don't think so. This crime is what a seems, a BLIND RAGE attack and then self preservation of covering up. She was totally medicated on the CNN interview. If they were doing what you say, she would not need all that medication. She would not.UKGuy said:
She had just been attacked close to death. The vaginal area is elastic and the size at death means nothing if what was normal was not determined prior to that night.
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]ABSTRACT: There are serious difficulties in diagnosing sexual abuse on the basis of an ano/genital examination. Nevertheless, medical conclusions are often used in court to provide evidence for abuse. The support for the alleged physical indicators of abuse has been based on opinions and claims unsupported by research data. Recent research by John McCann on the ano/genital anatomy in nonabused children has established that findings often attributed to sexual abuse are found in many normal children.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Given that with many victims of molestation the medical examination will be normal, it follows that every child's anatomy is "consistent with" molest because normal anatomy is also consistent with nontraumatic molest.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Next, it should be remembered that "normal" always means a range. Parts of the body vary in detail from person to person. Whether examiners may safely equate physical findings with prior trauma will depend on whether controlled studies have documented the range of normal anatomy.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume1/j1_3_1.htm
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