The case for murder

Discussion in 'Rebecca Zahau Nalepa' started by cynic, Sep 11, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Both are possible, although whatever produced the injuries was not sharp enough to produce lacerations - it was blunt force trauma.
     


  2. arielilane

    arielilane Justice for Morgan

    Messages:
    43,000
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This is suspect to me. Questionable... I just don't get it. jmo

    From the AR:
    Toe prints, apparently from the right foot, were close to the balcony railing and in line with an area of dirt clearing on the top of the balcony railing and in line with an area of dirt clearing on the top of the balcony railing and with the point at which the rope hung over the balcony.
     
  3. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,283
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Cynic- thank you so much for the diagram! You did a fantastic job!

    I agree that the illustration is only an approximation of the location of the hemorrhages, and without exact measurements it's impossible to know precisely where each of these injuries occurred.

    Photo of the cranial bones:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/9057.htm

    Based on the AR description of the location of the injury on the "right superior parietal scalp", I would place it more on top of the head (since it was described as superior), and less laterally, but that's just my opinion (I hope you don't mind my feedback - I have a degree in kinesiology).

    Again - thank you for going to the trouble of creating the diagram! A visual is very helpful!
     
  4. scorekeeper

    scorekeeper New Member

    Messages:
    12,369
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    cynic,

    nice to meet you and sunnieRN totally respects you; so I do too!!

    Thank you for answering my questions, I keep trying to apply logic to an illogical explanation given by LE.

    It's kinda' like being :crazy: doing the same thing over and over the same way but expecting different results...

    Thanks again and I really appreciate and enjoy all your posts!

    score

    Could someone had thrown her over the balcony and received the same results?
     
  5. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Manual strangulation could have produced the injuries that you described.
    In a typical, “kick the chair out from under your feet,” hanging you would not see those injuries; however, in a long drop hanging you would see those injuries.
    My problem with the long drop hanging scenario as is given to us by LE and the ME, is that there should have been serious spinal injuries as well.
     
  6. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,283
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A thought just occurred to me - if the noose knot was on the right side of the back of RZ's neck (which it was described as in the AR), it would seem that the pressure from the knot on the back of her neck would have tilted the right side of her head & face skyward, and would have pushed her face & head AWAY from any obstacles, not toward them.

    Yet, she sustained 4 subgaleal hemorrhages to the right side of her head.
     
  7. cynic

    cynic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it.
    I was actually trying to give the impression of it being on top of the head by having half the "circle" in mid-air, LOL, but i guess I should have presented a view looking down at the top of the head.
     
  8. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25,920
    Likes Received:
    37,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Search warrants were obtained for the mansion. Until then the homicide team which had been assigned to the case had to wait until the search warrant was in place and that can take several hours if they can find a Judge that isn't busy.

    The body is the last thing to be removed from the scene and even though it may seem disrespectful to the victim... LE does not disturb any of the evidence that may be on the body until the ME can come out and go over the body. Covering the body can result in evidence lost. And the San Diego ME office does 2,700 autopsies a year which means more than likely at the time when they were notified they were busy doing other autopsies.

    I really don't think LE expected the media to swoop in and take the video of Rebecca and air it all over the world. I was shocked myself even though I know the media has sunk to new lows and care more about ratings than anything.

    The message was a personal message left by Rebecca. It was not intended to be broadcast around the world. Yes, the family did disclose it but far better for the family to make the decision to do so than LE.

    In fact for a suicide death this case has been more revealing than any I have seen of its type. Usually LE doesn't release nearly this amount of information. They just usually say the death was a suicide and then state if it was a hanging, overdose, gunshot wound or whatever and that is about it.

    IMO
     
  9. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    25,920
    Likes Received:
    37,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
  10. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,283
    Trophy Points:
    113
    bbm

    This is the same problem I have with the 9'2" drop - there should have been at the very least displacement of cervical vertebrae (resulting in injury to the spinal cord) or cervical spine fractures.

    And then there's this from the Dr. Drew show (aired Sept. 8, 2011):

    Another thing, by the way, the rope expert mentioned to me before he went out during the break was that the rope, when it went over the railing, there would have been 600 pounds of pressure when she hung there, and there should have been some indentation or something of the rail that the rope was over, as well as there should have been some effect on the rope. Apparently, he says, the ropes have certain signs of that kind of pressure being exerted.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/08/ddhln.01.html

    9'2" fall, with 600 pounds of pressure at the end of that fall.

    But the AR states there were no vertebral fractures and no spinal cord injuries.
     
  11. sdcali

    sdcali Member

    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16

    Imagine this scenario, she is hoisted manually by a third person (or two), from the bedroom from bent position, faced over the balcony. As she is lifted, her body limp, because she is already dead or unconcious, shifts to one side. Thus the "angular" position. IMO
     
  12. Dr. Know?

    Dr. Know? Former Member

    Messages:
    11,853
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
  13. Dr. Know?

    Dr. Know? Former Member

    Messages:
    11,853
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the height of the tree/shrub has been stated and the cactus, I think. Has the depth of them been stated anywhere? 2', 3'D? TIA
     
  14. scorekeeper

    scorekeeper New Member

    Messages:
    12,369
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I thought trying to interprete Jose's flip charts about hair, leaves, etc was mind boggling.....

    Now I have to understand that X and Y stuff.....

    :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

    Can someone from Pixar make us a film?????
     
  15. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,283
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The parietal subgaleal hemorrhage was not on the "parietal ridge" (I've never actually heard of a "parietal ridge" in medical terminology - I think it's hair stylist terminology). The parietal subgaleal hemorrhage was described in the AR as being located on the right superior parietal scalp, which means the right side of the top (superior) surface of the head.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

    Anything on the side of the head (and still on the parietal surface) would be considered the lateral parietal region. If on the suture between the parietal bone & the temporal bone, it would be referred to as the temporo-parietal region.

    Since the AR described this particular injury as being on the right superior parietal scalp, I'm seeing it as being on the right side of the top of the head, based on my understanding of kinesiology & human anatomy.
     
  16. Bonepile

    Bonepile New Member

    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I really wonder with 11 investigators going over this case if they ever once questioned it as a murder, ever once thought of someone else as the perp, ever once questioned many of the things we have questioned (and continue to question) here, and will ever re-open a case which seems finalized by them as suicide?
     
  17. IWannaKnow

    IWannaKnow New Member

    Messages:
    1,725
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bringing an old post of mine over:
    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

    Page 9:
    Bold and color by me~
    and, same page, same section:

    Maybe cynic or Sunnie or sorrell skye will see something different in those statements, but for me that says there were OTHER marks on her neck, other than the ligature furrow - SEPARATED BY AN AREA OF PALLOR. Hmmmmmm. Where would those come from? The t-shirt was over the rope, so that doesn't work. If the rope simply slipped, there should be abrasions, but those are not mentioned.
     
  18. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ocean, the snips below your post are only SOME of the reasons I disagree that the injuries were caused ONLY by hanging. I have MANY unanswered questions, just the first of which is why there was not more damage to her spinal cord. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. I acquit death by suicide.
     
  19. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Those questions are not explained on the Autopsy report. What is states to me is two types of strangulation, but that is imho only.
     
  20. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,497
    Likes Received:
    5,283
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Those same marks caught my eye a few days ago when I started studying the AR more closely, and I've been trying to make sense of them.

    They are described as "thin, red lines" or "thin, linear marks", which sounds as if they were not deep (like the furrow from the rope).

    On the back of the neck, 1/8 inch below & parallel to the ligature furrow, there is a thin, red line measuring 2 1/2 inches in length.

    On the right-front neck & the right-lateral neck, there are two thin linear marks, parallel with the ligature furrow. From the wording in the AR, I can't tell if these two marks are above or below the ligature furrow, or how long each one of them are.

    I've been reading about ligature marks this morning, and I learned that if a person is strangled but the ligature is removed immediately after death, the ligature won't necessarily leave a furrow. According to what I've read, the furrow develops with prolonged postmortem contact. I didn't save the link, but if anyone wants it, I'll try to find it. It makes sense that the rope left a pronounced furrow, since she was hanging for several hours.

    IMO, these three thin, red lines seem out of place. I'm wondering if she may have been strangled with a thin ligature prior to hanging (not necessarily strangled to death, but perhaps strangled to unconsciousness).

    That's my current two cents regarding the thin red lines. Of course, I'm no forensic expert (nor am I a chemist lol).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice