The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[ColourPurple]

OliviaG1996,
How about the blunt force weapon being a metal train carriage or similar from BR's bedroom?
.

I haven't posted on this case before so no idea if this idea has been put forward before but...
I started off thinking that it had to be an adult that tied the rope round Jonbenet's neck and hands as it's not something a young kid would come up with ... then with the mention of toy trains and train tracks and even a "train room", I thought actually there is one kind of tying up that a young kid might have seen on kids TV that they might try to recreate themselves. Could BR have been getting Jonbenet to play the cliched girl "tied to the train track as a train approaches" scenario that you see in cartoons and in movies?

 

[Tortoise]

Hi, Tortoise. The den where JR's robe was found is on the 3rd floor, adjacent to the master bedroom. It is also sometimes called JR's study, and his desk was there. There's also a room on the 1st floor, between the hall and the garage, variously referred to as the study or the den. Hope this helps.

Thank you Meara!

 

[ThinkHard]

I haven't posted on this case before so no idea if this idea has been put forward before but...
I started off thinking that it had to be an adult that tied the rope round Jonbenet's neck and hands as it's not something a young kid would come up with ... then with the mention of toy trains and train tracks and even a "train room", I thought actually there is one kind of tying up that a young kid might have seen on kids TV that they might try to recreate themselves. Could BR have been getting Jonbenet to play the cliched girl "tied to the train track as a train approaches" scenario that you see in cartoons and in movies?

Respectfully I disagree with your notion that kids don't like tying each other up, because they do. I'm sure anyone with kids can tell you that their children have rigged up crazy contraption or tried to rope them into some game where they have captured the adult. I'm sure not all kids do thus stuff, but back in the day I did a lot of babysitting and I can tell you games of tying each other up was a common theme .... And not one I condoned.

But I think a railroad tie in, is a great thought!

 

[ColourPurple]

Respectfully I disagree with your notion that kids don't like tying each other up, because they do. I'm sure anyone with kids can tell you that their children have rigged up crazy contraption or tried to rope them into some game where they have captured the adult. I'm sure not all kids do thus stuff, but back in the day I did a lot of babysitting and I can tell you games of tying each other up was a common theme .... And not one I condoned.

But I think a railroad tie in, is a great thought!

I guess maybe it's more common than I thought then. The combination of trains and tying up just makes me think of those cartoons and think yeah maybe Jonbenet would have joined in with that thinking it was all a fun game... and then it turned sinister.

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but A&E's running another two hours of garbage tonight at 9:00 (EST). I can't tell if it's completely new or just a new interview cut into that BS-fest from last month, but it seems to be the counteroffensive to the CBS show. This is the preview:

http://www.aetv.com/specials/the-ki...iew-the-killing-of-jonbenet-her-father-speaks

It turns out Dr Phil WASN'T John Ramsey's last interview after all. That lasted all of two weeks. Let's face it, the Dr. Phil thing blew up in their faces. Now they need spin control, a lot of it. But I think it's futile to try and put the genie back into the lamp at this point.

I'm sorry, John, but the war is over, and you've lost. I know taking defeat gracefully isn't your thing, but you could at least try.

I'm not surprised that it's not his last interview. At All. If the Ramsey's mouths are moving they are lying. Period. [emoji6]

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[Tortoise]

Thanks for the picture, I've never seen that one before. I wonder if this is the pic referenced in Kolar's book that inspired Barbara Fernie to tell police about John's strange comment about Pam getting his golf clubs:
"Barbara Fernie had raised another red flag when she decided to contact investigators in early January 1998. She and her son had seen photographs of golf clubs in a tabloid story about JonBenet while shopping in a grocery store and her son recognized the set of clubs as belonging to Burke. The sight of the golf clubs spurred her memory about an odd comment that John Ramsey had made while staying at the Fernie residence, after the discovery of JonBenet's body."

Interesting.

Were the Fernies outcast too?

 

[dogperson]

It's just really telling to me. I mean it's weird that he says it's prescribed by Burkes psychiatrist. It's easy to miss that nugget if your not paying attention or aren't familiar with the difference in profession. He would absolutely be seeing a therapists or counselor of he was seeing someone to deal with the murder of JBR. If he's under continued care of a psychiatrist it's because he's been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder and May or may not be prescribed medication as well. And I think most versed in psychology know this. Big slip up for me. On an end note, do these parents not have their own doctors? Geez!

You bring up a good point. Many pediatricians will not prescribe psychiatric meds of any kind to a child but will refer them to a psychiatrist. Apparently, a psychologist was not enough for BR or anyone in the family to see; they needed someone who could prescribe meds. The adults could probably have gotten Paxil, Ativan, or anything else they wanted from their primary doctors, but BRs pediatrician would likely not have wanted to prescribe such things for him. Especially if he had any inkling BR had a serious disorder. He would have probably wanted to refer him to someone else as quickly as possible and get this problem off his hands.

 

[Heymom]

:lightbulb:

Going to counseling would explain JB seeing the "doctor" over 30 times in 2 years.

No, those were her pediatrician visits. Not counseling.

 

[Heymom]

I looked up Dr. Jaffe, Burke's psychiatrist. He did an interview in a magazine and this is one of the questions asked.

MCJ: A lot of doctors get labeled as “pill pushers.”

Dr. Jaffe: By the time they get to me, they usually have gone through traditional talk therapy, and psychopharmacology might be the best option. I am very much into parents and patients being in an alliance with me. I welcome their research and want them to know as much about the problem as I do. Then we can look at possible treatments.


Also from what I've found it looks like he's specifically a child and adolescent psychiatrist. It's completely inappropriate for him to prescribe medication to JR, which goes to show you that they find less than professional doctors.

Things must work differently in Boulder. Here, a doctor would NEVER prescribe medications for someone who isn't his patient. Could cost him his license.

 

[ElleElle]

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but A&E's running another two hours of garbage tonight at 9:00 (EST). I can't tell if it's completely new or just a new interview cut into that BS-fest from last month, but it seems to be the counteroffensive to the CBS show. This is the preview:

http://www.aetv.com/specials/the-ki...iew-the-killing-of-jonbenet-her-father-speaks

It turns out Dr Phil WASN'T John Ramsey's last interview after all. That lasted all of two weeks. Let's face it, the Dr. Phil thing blew up in their faces. Now they need spin control, a lot of it. But I think it's futile to try and put the genie back into the lamp at this point.

I'm sorry, John, but the war is over, and you've lost. I know taking defeat gracefully isn't your thing, but you could at least try.

:gaah: :deadhorse:

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but A&E's running another two hours of garbage tonight at 9:00 (EST). I can't tell if it's completely new or just a new interview cut into that BS-fest from last month, but it seems to be the counteroffensive to the CBS show. This is the preview:

http://www.aetv.com/specials/the-ki...iew-the-killing-of-jonbenet-her-father-speaks

It turns out Dr Phil WASN'T John Ramsey's last interview after all. That lasted all of two weeks. Let's face it, the Dr. Phil thing blew up in their faces. Now they need spin control, a lot of it. But I think it's futile to try and put the genie back into the lamp at this point.

I'm sorry, John, but the war is over, and you've lost. I know taking defeat gracefully isn't your thing, but you could at least try.

I'm still getting a laugh from your comments!😂😂😂 John doesn't know when to shut up and lay low. I think his ego (and LW prodding) can't let things be. I doubt I will watch the BS fest considering I'm on vacation but I will catch it on YouTube soon. Lol I don't want to ruin my rum runner fun with screaming at a TV in the manner some scream at sports games. I will wait and see yalls thoughts before I subject myself to that hell. I trust yalls opinion!

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[midwest mama]

MOO....JR is feeling the heat from what he's having trouble containing these days. Sorry, missed seeing SDs earlier post and put some info on the MEDIA link.

IMO, if JR has anything left to say about the case of, or comments regarding evidence related to, the murder of his daughter, he should discuss it with the BPD and FBI. I am sure they would be happy to help him sort through everything so he would have plenty of ammunition to hand over to LW for the upcoming BR lawsuit.

Important, credible people still want to get a resolve for this case, and JR is still trying to set up roadblocks. SICKENING.

 

[Heymom]

MOO....JR is feeling the heat from what he's having trouble containing these days. Sorry, missed seeing SDs earlier post and put some info on the MEDIA link.

IMO, if JR has anything left to say about the case of, or comments regarding evidence related to, the murder of his daughter, he should discuss it with the BPD and FBI. I am sure they would be happy to help him sort through everything so he would have plenty of ammunition to hand over to LW for the upcoming BR lawsuit.

Important, credible people still want to get a resolve for this case, and JR is still trying to set up roadblocks. SICKENING.

It's not about JonBenet, don'tcha know, it's about how John Ramsey was victimized. That statement from him about made me kill my TV in anger...

 

[Tortoise]

Thinking about the 'duct' tape and cord and why Patsy might have made these purchases just before Christmas.

Patsy had made a painting for John for his Christmas present. I wonder if she bought the tape to seal the back of the frame and the cord to hang it. I expect it was yet another item just boxed up and shipped off to the Ramseys.

 

[Tortoise]

Now thinking on this some more. Mmm, interesting.

They asked Patsy what the subject of the painting was that she had made for John. I can't remember what her answer was without checking, but I think it was a boating scene.

They asked John the same question and he came up with a completely different scene, it may have been golf, but again without checking I can't be sure. All that stood out for me was that they had given different answers and I thought it very ODD, because you would know if someone had made you a painting what it was a painting of, it would be special and personal because it was made for you.

If my above speculated reason for the purchase of tape and string was correct, one of them may have been lying (or both) so that these materials couldn't be verified. Give them the wrong painting if they asked to take it into evidence. wink wink.

 

[Ashleyh613]

Here's more from PR in the 1998 interview about BR and the psychiatrist.


TH: "How about with the moving and all of that, has that caused some problems for him, change of schools?"

PR: "Yeah. And I have been in touch with the counselors and the teachers and everybody, alert to this. And they said that -- they are remarkably surprised at how well he is doing. He just makes friends and gets good grades."

TH: "So his adjustment's been pretty -- "

PR: "Been pretty good.

TH: "You mentioned I think when I asked you yesterday, had you seen an interview from last week with Burke. You said no?"

PR: "No."

TH: "There were like three days, and the first two days were pretty basic questions, but on the third day, there were questions where the discussion was around JonBenet and the death. And I am no psychologist, psychiatrist, but immediately noticed a change in Burke and his demeanor. He's curled up on his chair something like this, not sitting like this, but a chair like this, and he's half in a fetal position and it seems to be a struggle, a real difficult time. I am wondering if you noticed anything similar, any changes?"

PR: "Well, I may have -- I have had him in therapy just for this reason. So that, I mean, the therapist explained to me that -- that Burke may be trying to hold together and be real strong for John and I, you know. And because I was saying it seemed to me like he needs to let it out, you know. He said, well, children handle things differently, you know, than adults. And he doesn't -- he thinks Burke is just fine. So I have to just take him at -- I respect his opinion, Dr. Jaffe. But no, I have not -- I have not directly, you know, noticed anything."

TH: "Does it seem like he knows more than he's saying, and obviously he's not saying much?"

PR: "Right."

TH: "Like he's keeping something in, like something?"

PR: "Well, I think he does, you know, in our conversations when our friends call and when, you know, he has confrontations with the media and I am sure all that affects him. As far as something about who did it, I don't think he knows. I mean, he would say."

TH: " Has that -- is that something that you have asked the -- Dr. Jaffe to explore?"

PR: "I don't know if I have directly asked him that. I don't -- "

TH: "And you know that's a thought?"

PR: "Yeah. Well, I knew that's -- I was presuming that's what they were doing last week, kind of seeing if he remembered anything."

TH: "And they were, yeah, but you know Dr. Jaffe and he works with him on a fairly regular basis?"

PR: "Right."

TH: "How often?"

PR: "Oh, every three weeks, maybe."

TH: "Okay. But a lot more than -- "

PR: "Sure, yes. Quite -- sure. I am quite sure he is alert to that. You know. If the thing would come up --

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Interesting.

Were the Fernies outcast too?

Well, Kolar relates another story Barbara Fernie told LE at the same time as the golf club story: a few months before the murder she had brought a seemingly broken/jimmied door latch to Patsy's attention. (LHP also told a story about telling Patsy about this but I can't recall the source.) Patsy said she was aware and it wasn't a problem - it didn't look nice but the door locked fine. But then at some point after the murder, the Ramsey lawyers took out a half page ad in the local newspaper with a picture of the latch indicating this may have been the intruder's point of entry. "This did not sit well with Mrs. Fernie because Patsy was fully aware that this damage had been inflicted on the screen door weeks or months prior to the murder of JonBenet. The use of this picture seemed to be an attempt to mislead the public about the evidence associated with the crime and the Fernies indicated that they severed their contact with the family following their observation of that advertisement."

So it's kind of the other way around, they cut the Ramseys out. I do remember John F making supportive/defensive statements in the press early on but I don't know when that stopped. This 2001 article tentatively lists them as still supporting the Ramseys, but apparently only because they hadn't spoken out against them:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2001/17anames.html

It's really interesting to me that the two couples they were close enough with to call over for support that morning and saw everything firsthand didn't want to stick by them.

 

[otg]

(bbm)

Thanks for the picture, I've never seen that one before. I wonder if this is the pic referenced in Kolar's book that inspired Barbara Fernie to tell police about John's strange comment about Pam getting his golf clubs:
"Barbara Fernie had raised another red flag when she decided to contact investigators in early January 1998. She and her son had seen photographs of golf clubs in a tabloid story about JonBenet while shopping in a grocery store and her son recognized the set of clubs as belonging to Burke. The sight of the golf clubs spurred her memory about an odd comment that John Ramsey had made while staying at the Fernie residence, after the discovery of JonBenet's body."

I wonder what the "odd comment" was that he made.

 

[wildebeest]

I'm still getting a laugh from your comments!������ John doesn't know when to shut up and lay low. I think his ego (and LW prodding) can't let things be. I doubt I will watch the BS fest considering I'm on vacation but I will catch it on YouTube soon. Lol I don't want to ruin my rum runner fun with screaming at a TV in the manner some scream at sports games. I will wait and see yalls thoughts before I subject myself to that hell. I trust yalls opinion!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Take it easy, Positive!!!

:drink:arty::drink:

 

[otg]

(rsbm)

Also, when Laura talks about recreating the house, she said they wanted it to be so detailed that they even included peanut butter smudges/smears on the wall. I'm assuming that is in the kitchen. It's probably nothing but that's the first I remember hearing about peanut butter on the wall.

I wonder if it was those smudges or the ones in the basement. Seems like someone was still smearing lots of stuff on the walls. For context (emphasis mine):

15 TRIP DEMUTH: Look at all those pictures,
16 242, 43 and 44 and 45 together.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the little bathroom in
18 the basement.
19 TOM HANEY: Anything out of place or unusual
20 in those photos?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the bathroom we hadn't
22 utilized very much. These little Christmas decorations
23 were left over from -- I had put those there when we
24 had the home tour two years earlier, because the
25 volunteers used this area and I had a bathroom
0408
1 available.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: That photo 244 was shut, is
3 that how you left them?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that, yes. I would have
5 left that. I left it like that.
6 Now this, I don't know what that is -- why
7 that would be there.
8TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to like tissue.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: It is like tissue something,
10 because I remember I specifically asked Linda some time
11 in the not-so-distant future to go down and clean that
12 bathroom because I think one of the boys had used the
13 bathroom and not flushed it. It was kind of yucko, so
14 she had gone down there. So I don't know if that is
15 her cleaning rag she left there or what.
16 TOM HANEY: Do you know for a fact that she
17 did clean it, could she have been in there since?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I don't remember that too
19 much about that bathroom.
20 TOM HANEY: When you were present she wasn't
21 in there?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. The door was usually
23 closed because that -- that door opens right when you
24 came down those steps. (Inaudible). There are a bunch
25 of smears on here.
0409
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing to 205.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall seeing anything
4 like that there before seeing that?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No, because I had that whole
6 downstairs painted, I mean cleaned.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, 1994, before that home
9 tour, Christmas home tour.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Who used that bathroom?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: The boys. You know, Burke and
12 Evan were down there playing with the trains. They
13 would go in there and use it.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: What do you mean that they had
15 not flushed that toilet, what do you mean by that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think someone had gone
17 to the potty and hadn't flushed it. It was there for
18 several days.
19 TOM HANEY: Are we talking urine?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It was just
21 reported to me. It was, mom, the bathroom is pretty
22 yucky, and Linda took care of it is the way I think it
23 went.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: How common was it for Evan and
25 Burke to not flush?
0410
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Burke is pretty well
2 trained, because that is one of my big pet peeves, but
3 Evan I don't know about.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: What does that mean, Patsy,
5 when you say you don't know about?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know whether he
7 flushes regularly.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: That could imply, I don't know
9 about him because he doesn't flush, or I wanted to
10 clear that up.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I would believe
12 it was Evan that used it and didn't flush rather than
13 my son. I would like to believe that.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Was it a more than one-time
15 occasion in this bathroom down there?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember that one.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: When was that? It doesn't have
18 to be precise, I mean how long before Christmas?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't know
20 exactly. I just remember it happening.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: Right before Christmas?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't remember. I just
23 remember the event that there was a dirty bathroom bowl
24 and obviously the boys were down there using it and not
25 flushing.
0411
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know, did Linda clean it
2 up, do you know?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I -- I am sure she did, but I
4 didn't go down there and double check it.
5 TOM HANEY: Is she usually pretty confident
6 if you give her something?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Had you been in this bathroom
9 at all prior to Christmas of '96?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I hadn't been in there.
11 You can tell I haven't been in there since '94.
12 TOM HANEY: Anything else? The tissue of
13 some kind.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
15 TOM HANEY: 246 now.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Is that the hall
17 from here? No.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: That is a closer picture of the
19wall.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, is it? Okay. It looks
21dirty to me, that close up.
​