The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[minazoe]

BR's life just got very complicated...you know , childhood jealously can border on psychosis, not only this but coupled with his mother's illness, Burke may have been acting out .

But I know for sure that a child can be cunning and cruel, can be devious and violent, can sneak around a dark house and play out fantasies beyond the reach of parents...

I can remember as a child, climbing our furniture like a cat as a game where I would not set foot on the floor but climb through out the house without waking my mother..If I had I sibling ,I know I would have commissioned them to join my game..

Also I can imagine a sexual curiosity with a paint brush, I can see a child toying with a corpse , poking with train tracks, strangling, poking with a stick, especially when there isn't much response and JBR was essentially a doll..

I want to hear more because if she was already brain dead , how do we explain the fingernail impressions at her throat? Perhaps they are brs? Perhaps he tried to remove the garrote?

There are evil children, there are children who will kill and enjoy it...could be the kind of kid to kill neighborhood pets etc...a budding Ted Bundy...wonder what a shrink would say about the effect PRs cancer of her sexual system might have on a young boy.

It's too bad they couldn't let this be an accident...of course if it was more than a head injury and he actually strangled her too...down in the train room...well then there was no way to make this an accident..

It's so creepy...I am sure that Burke would have been institutionalized even if not charged with murder...also I think because he was so close to ten, it could be the judges discretion, on whether to let it go to trial...

It's so sad..

 

[Chebrock]

Regarding the blow to the head. ..one scenario as a result of the autopsy was that JB was being strangled with a soft scarf when she went into convulsions and appeared to be dead or dying. She was then hit over the head to make it look like a blow to the head.

 

[cynic]

I said it during the chat and I’ll say it again here. Spitz is wrong about the Maglite and he did nothing to prove that the pattern injury on the skull of JonBenet was caused anything with that shape.
I’ve taken a Maglite (although you can use any flashlight with that shape) and pressed it into modelling clay and a Styrofoam sphere. The result is always the same – a half of an ellipse.
I would encourage anyone to try it. It’s not as if this would be the first time that Spitz was wrong.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

The problem I had with the demonstration using the flashlight to hit the skull was:

1. The posterior fracture ran all the way to the base of the skull and iirc it did not run that far on the photo available on the Internet that's said to be JonBenet's skull.

2. They either didn't show whether there was an anterior fracture or else I missed it.

Hope this helps. The fracture was 8.5 inches in length.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf

 

[just the facts pls]

I said it during the chat and I’ll say it again here. Spitz is wrong about the Maglite and he did nothing to prove that the pattern injury on the skull of JonBenet was caused anything with that shape.
I’ve taken a Maglite (although you can use any flashlight with that shape) and pressed it into modelling clay and a Styrofoam sphere. The result is always the same – a half of an ellipse.
I would encourage anyone to try it. It’s not as if this would be the first time that Spitz was wrong.

I don't think that a maglite coming into contact with styrofoam and clay would be the same as coming into contact with a human skull with skin and hair. I'm no expert, but I would think the differences are obvious. A skull cracks which won't form a precise shape, clay doesn't.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

I started a new thread for this, things have changed here, so I guess it has to be approved first. Here is what is said :

I can't believe I am saying this. But I changed my theory based on the evidence and information provided on tonight's show.

I’m watching The Case of JonBenet Ramsey, which I think we all have been hoping for, for 20 years. Probably the best analysis of the case I have seen so far and I have learned new things from this show along with the Dr. Phil interview on Burke Ramsey. I think I am swaying more and more towards the Burke Ramsey did it theory, which I dismissed early on.

The Dr. Phil interview really perturbed me. Burke is not only socially awkward, but he made some unbelievable statements and some statements that were really bizarre. In addition to his inappropriate smiles and looking down when asked certain question, His lack of empathy for his sister was evident. He flat out lied when asked if he had ever read the ransom note in it's entirety. This kid is almost 30 years old and he has never read the note? He said he stops on page 1 and can't get through anymore?

The biggest revelation is that Burke Ramsey admits to being up that night and sneaking down to play with his Christmas toys. HUGE admission! His prints are on the bowl of pineapple. He also admitted to hitting JonBenet on the head once before with a golf club hard enough to cause a mark on her chin. The bowl of pineapple was found on the table and the flashlight was found on the kitchen countertop.

Dr. Werner Spitz lines up that flashlight perfectly with the head wound, and now I have no doubts that is the object that struck her. NONE at all.

If it's clear that Patsy Ramsey said in the background of the 911 tape, What did you do? That then removes her as the killer and places the blame on John or Burke. The 911 operator also states she heard Patsy say, We called 911, now what? This whole event is being orchestrated by John.

Furthermore when both John and Pasty state they did not kill JonBenet, it is convincing to everyone including the Linguist. That leaves one person left, and the convincing fact from Dr. Spitz called in a 10 year old boy to inflict the same type of wound to a skull as JonBenet was. The wound was almost an exact match! Also JonBenet was hit on the side of the head. I now can convincingly draw a conclusion that Burke woke in the middle of the night, perhaps woke JonBenet as well to play with their presents, both ate Pineapple, and at some point an altercation took place and Burke struck JonBenet with the flashlight to the side of the head.

Burke's reactions or non reactions on Dr. Phil and his odd behavior tells me something is not right with this child. His statements to the child psychologists about 'it's time to move on', and his disconnect and unsympathetic reactions to her murder disturb me. His reconstruction of what he thinks happened by raising his hand and bringing it down, also is suspicious along with him not identifying the pineapple when he is shown the photo, all show he is hiding something. This biggest factor for me, is that Burke Ramsey admitted to being up that night. The cover up was a joint effort on behalf of Patsy and John, which only makes sense why they covered for each other. When asked to draw a picture of his family, he drew his mom, dad and himself, not JonBenet. I think this child was jealous of his sister, the attention she received. I now view his as the likely culprit. Since the 911 call and ransom note cannot be dismissed as evidence, there is no sense in discussing any intruder theory, it doesn't exist.

I say there is ample evidence to make an arrest in this case. I now think Burke Ramsey is the culprit. This is now the only thing that makes sense on why both Patsy and John united to protect him. His interview with Dr. Phil and the interview with the child psychologist were very telling. And HI to all the old gang! Boy it's been years! It's sad we are still talking about this after all this time. If anything positive has come out of this case, is that JonBenet's murder was a wakeup call to police and investigators everywhere, and that NO ONE, not even wealthy people should be above the law.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Well, well, well! JR did go MIA for a lengthy spell and came back agitated. Anyone else think the conclusion will be, she stole a piece of pineapple and it snowballed from there?

It's taken 20 years to get some answers. Would like to know what the Whites said.

Exactly what I was thinking and he whacked her on the head with something handy. Then the coverup. But the garrote that wasn't really a garrote? I don't know whose idea that was or if BR was that mad. I just can't fathom how it all played out.

 

[minazoe]

I can understand the Ramseys. I know it's wrong..I can understand them. .. so wrong...how do we know he is not a danger now as we sit here? I think that if I was the R's, eventually I would have to recant and get help for my child,

They probably felt they created a little monster and blamed themselves...but of course their reputation took precedence..

It's sickening.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I said it during the chat and I’ll say it again here. Spitz is wrong about the Maglite and he did nothing to prove that the pattern injury on the skull of JonBenet was caused anything with that shape.
I’ve taken a Maglite (although you can use any flashlight with that shape) and pressed it into modelling clay and a Styrofoam sphere. The result is always the same – a half of an ellipse.
I would encourage anyone to try it. It’s not as if this would be the first time that Spitz was wrong.

That's quite possible and I don't think Henry Lee agreed either, but I found it fascinating that the flashlight was clean of prints, even the batteries. And when questioned, the Ramsey's neither claimed or disclaimed ownership of it from all that I've read. So if BR admitted that he'd hit his sister with it and they were staging a cover up, then it would be logical that it had been wiped clean.

 

[EgyptNug]

Great show, wow. I learned new things. I dont remember hearing that the RN pen and paper were put back in two distant areas. Also, the part about staying on 911, I believe that I wouldn't hang up on the operator calling my name. 22 minutes for writing the note, that is a long time. And I'm convinced on the Maglite now.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

 

[cynic]

I don't think that a maglite coming into contact with styrofoam and clay would be the same as coming into contact with a human skull with skin and hair. I'm no expert, but I would think the differences are obvious. A skull cracks which won't form a precise shape, clay doesn't.

Spitz said in an interview that you could use Styrofoam or even cardboard as a surface.

 

[just the facts pls]

Spitz said in an interview that you could use Styrofoam or even cardboard as a surface.

Wait, I thought you assumed Spitz was wrong about things and he is right about this?

 

[Kay0315]

Dogface, I agree that the end of 911 recording did not sound like anything but static clicks, and then even slowed down I could not make out voices or words.

 

[LadyTudorRose]

In the clips from the call, I could hear Burke's "what did you find" very clearly, the other comments I couldn't make out. Patsy was definitely saying something including what seemed like it could be the word "Jesus", and John's voice can also be heard though, but I couldn't understand a word of it.

Maybe with a nice pair of headphones it'd be easier to make out?

 

[questfortrue]

I said it during the chat and I’ll say it again here. Spitz is wrong about the Maglite and he did nothing to prove that the pattern injury on the skull of JonBenet was caused anything with that shape.
I’ve taken a Maglite (although you can use any flashlight with that shape) and pressed it into modelling clay and a Styrofoam sphere. The result is always the same – a half of an ellipse.
I would encourage anyone to try it. It’s not as if this would be the first time that Spitz was wrong.

I agree, and my concern over Spitz’s appearance was unfortunately confirmed.

Something else - I’ve had prior conversations with doctors on the head blow. Bottom line, brain death isn’t determined unless she is examined while alive. Spitz stepped way over the line in making that statement regarding her ‘brain death.’

 

[TinaD]

For Australian members - it's being aired tonight (19/9) on channel 9 - in Melbourne anyway. Being promoted as a two part documentary.

 

[cynic]

Wait, I thought you assumed Spitz was wrong about things and he is right about this?

The poster OTG has done some great work on weapon shape possibilities. The Maglite is not a possibility.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Fractures-The-Weapon&p=12811187#post12811187

 

[gregjrichards]

sorry if already posted

"A retired FBI agent and his colleagues working on the JonBenet Ramsey murder case will name the person investigators believe killed the six-year-old girl 20 years ago.

Forensic linguistic James Fitzgerald, along with other original investigators on the case, teamed up with new experts to re-examine the evidence of the unsolved case.

Fitzgerald said he along with his cohort will name a suspect they believe murdered JonBenet as well as individuals who helped that person get away with the 1996 killing during the conclusion of a four-hour limited docu-series airing on CBS, Yahoo TV reported.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ered-JonBenet-Ramsey-named.html#ixzz4KfkctTIW

 

[Nedthan Johns]

sorry if already posted

"A retired FBI agent and his colleagues working on the JonBenet Ramsey murder case will name the person investigators believe killed the six-year-old girl 20 years ago.

Forensic linguistic James Fitzgerald, along with other original investigators on the case, teamed up with new experts to re-examine the evidence of the unsolved case.

Fitzgerald said he along with his cohort will name a suspect they believe murdered JonBenet as well as individuals who helped that person get away with the 1996 killing during the conclusion of a four-hour limited docu-series airing on CBS, Yahoo TV reported.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ered-JonBenet-Ramsey-named.html#ixzz4KfkctTIW

Well that says it all. The person that killed her Burke Ramsey and the people that individuals that helped him get away with it. Patsy and John

 

[just the facts pls]

The poster OTG has done some great work on weapon shape possibilities. The Maglite is not a possibility.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Fractures-The-Weapon&p=12811187#post12811187

Okay, thanks. I'm just not sure how a cracked skull can be adequately represented by styrofoam with the differences in texture and strength. I think the measurements of the maglite are compelling, although I thought it was a different weapon before the demonstration tonight. Now I'm not sure sure.