Discussion in 'George Zimmerman Trial/Trayvon Martin' started by JBean, May 6, 2012.
Seems to be a hotly debated issue. What do we and don't we know?
Here's what I know:
"John" stated on camera that Mr. Zimmerman ("the guy in red") was "yelling" for help. He said he ran upstairs to call 911, before he could get upstairs and look out the window Mr. Martin was dead. He does not state that he heard more yells while running upstairs.
All hearsay, but he probably will be testifying as a witness.
Good topic by the way, thanks!
Do you have the link to that handy? I'd like to read the entire article. TIA
I posted it on another thread, I'll find it and edit this reply.
Here's a link to the 911 calls with the cries for help in the background.
Robert Zimmerman Jr on the subject:
JMO but if TM had suffocated GZ to the extent that he was losing consciousness and was swallowing copious amounts of blood that he was unable to spit out, GZ wasn't yelling at the time.
This description sounds like just a little bit pregnant. You can't both be on the verge losing consciousness because you can't breathe due to having your airways blocked AND scream in a blood curdling manner.
Before I try to touch on this topic. . . . . Does anyone have a 10-foot pole I can borrow?
Trayvon Martin Shooting: Voice Experts Claim Cries Heard On 911 Call Were Not George Zimmerman's
Posted: 03/31/2012 11:20 pm Updated: 04/ 2/2012 8:43 am
Before George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin on February 26, a 911 call recorded the voice of someone screaming. Whether that person was Martin or Zimmerman -- who police say claimed he was attacked by Martin before the fatal incident -- has been an open question since the calls were released by the Sanford, Florida police department. (WARNING: Above audio is disturbing.)
The Orlando Sentinel consulted two voice experts to try to settle the debate, and both came to the same conclusion: The cries could not have come from George Zimmerman.
One expert, Tom Owen, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman as the source. From the Sentinel:
The 911 call was the first thing I heard/knew about the case, and my reaction upon hearing the cries were that they were those of a young person (teens or younger) and not those of a 28 year old. In fairness, I have not to this day heard GZ's speaking voice at all, but would expect him to have a more youthful pitch if those were indeed his cries regardless of breathing, blood etc. Somewhat like comparing Michael Jackson's adult voice to those of any of his brothers. Michael had a higher pitched voice I would tend to think of a youth in puberty ranges as opposed to a mature adult voice.
Hearing Trayvon's brother's voice also makes me think the screams could indeed be those of a younger sibling of this man.
Robert Zimmerman jr.'s opinion
I've asked this question before, if the "experts" are so certain that it is Mr. Martin, why does Investigator Gilbreath state that the only evidence they have saying it is Mr. Martin is his mother. This was at the bail hearing.
GZ can be heard talking on the 911 call
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw"]George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube[/ame]
and in the bond hearing
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WW5i_86hdU"]George Zimmerman's apology to Trayvon Martin's parents - YouTube[/ame]
Interesting article on this topic at link:
"Finally, published studies of voice identification under experimental conditions show very high rates of error. Indeed, a report by the National Academy of Sciences on forensic voice identification concluded that the scientific basis for making reliable voice identifications is weak. The FBI, as a result of the report, apparently does not use forensic voice analysis for courtroom evidence, although as with polygraph evidence, it continues to use it for investigative purposes."
If this article is correct, then at trial we will see some non-expert witnesses testify that it is GZ screaming and others testify that it is TM screaming. Result: draw on this particular issue. JMO MOO etc.
Tom Owen is mentioned first in the article. He’s described as a forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services, LLC.
Let’s take a closer look at the process he used.
The expert never said it was TM. They just said they were certain it was not GZ. Also SA did not ask for the test. My guess is they will rely on FBI findings which they have not received yet. Gilbreath can only say he has heard of the OS testing not that he interviewed them because he did not. He did, however, interview TM's mother. jmo
I get a 404 error using the above link but this should work
I was a little confused myself but DelaRionda at first tells the investigator something about they weren't prepared to talk evidence, paraphrased.
I believe it turned into a mini evidence hearing by ambush..Why they weren't better prepared is anyone's guess...but I believe they were caught off guard and were only prepared for the 'bond' hearing, not evidence hearing...:banghead:
I'm glad this thread was started, I was thinking of starting one regarding this. :blushing:
I believe the screams for help are from TM . GZ did NOT have to pull the trigger, he had the upper hand in this so called struggle. He was the one who pursued TM, not the other way around. He was the one who called the non-emergency hotline, not the other way around. He was the one carrying a gun, not the other way around. He is the one who is walking around ALIVE, not the other way around
This case still saddens me a 17 year old teen is dead because of a over zealous crime watch man, or whatever :jail:
You may be correct about the experts, though I'm fairly certain the experts I heard talking about it said they were sure that it was Mr. Martin. This was right before I stopped paying attention to the media, so it's been a while. Unfortunately I can't even say which outlet it was that I was listening to but at the time the question in my mind was "how did you compare Mr. Martin's voice to the screams?"
The reporter may have concluded it was Martin. How could someone testing say it was 100% Martin when they did not have a sample of his normal voice to test? I only read that the experts were only sure it was not GZ. jmo
Separate names with a comma.