The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 10th July - Trial Day 18

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Jun 3, 2014.

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  1. MadDoc

    MadDoc Member

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    Now that all has been said and done and we are sitting around waiting for a verdict and eating donuts, I would like to "think out loud" and just put out there a totally unrelated question that has been at the back of my mind.

    I wonder if there is any relation between Judge Byrne and Mr Byrne QC for the defence?

    Feel free to completely ignore this question if it constitutes improper sleuthing. But it's just something random that I have been wondering.
     


  2. knowledgethirsty

    knowledgethirsty Active Member

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    Wow , so now we wait...

    A little bit teary myself.... What a ride.. Lets hope there is a resolution to all of this, that someone is punished for a crime.
     
  3. Brightbird

    Brightbird Active Member

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    I find the defence case to be extremely unlikely, but not impossible. The prosecution case is a far more logical and likely explanation for the evidence. There is evidence from the PT that specifically goes against the argument that Allison wandered off and died, like her plans for the next day and tolerance to Zoloft. I know the defence doesn't have to prove anything, but there isn't anything in the defence case that makes me doubt that GBC killed her. If that makes sense. I think that means I don't have any reasonable doubt.
     
  4. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Ebony Cavallaro ‏@ebonycavallaro 1m

    Lots of people milling around court, jury deliberation always a tense time - so unpredictable timing & decision #badenclay @9NewsBrisbane
     
  5. FigTree

    FigTree Well-Known Member

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    DAY 18 BADEN-CLAY TRIAL – WEBSLEUTHS THREAD COLLECTION – TWEETS
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...wn-v-Gerard-Baden-Clay-10th-July-Trial-Day-18

    In order of postings on WS by the Websleuth Re-Tweet Team –
    Amee, Freya, PrimeSuspect (let me know if there is another name to add please :))

    MSM TWEETS
    David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD
    Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou
    Tessa Scott ‏@TessaScott9
    Marissa Calligeros ‏@marissa_sc
    Leonie Mellor ‏@leoniemellor
    Sarah Greenhalgh ‏@GreenhalghSarah
    Katrina Blowers ‏@katrinablowers


    • DAY 18 COMMENCES

    • Gerard is in court, judge to finish his summing up, day 18 of the trial
    • We're in court getting ready for day 18 of the Baden-Clay trial. Judge is expected to complete his summing up. @couriermail
    • Gerard wearing a dark suit, check shirt, blue and white tie. Neat haircut, clean shaven
    • Some legal discussion before the jury arrives
    • The jury is yet to enter the courtroom. A short delay this morning for a bit of legal discussion. #badenclay
    • Allison and Gerard's parents are in their usual positions on opposite sides of the court
    • The jury is entering the courtroom. Justice John Byrne will begin in a moment. #badenclay
    • Judge says he will now summarise the closing addresses, beginning with the defence. #badenclay
    • Day 18 of #badenclay trial now underway after a short delay.
    • Justice John Byrne is now summarising the crown and defence cases.
    • Jury has arrived, Justice John Byrne resumes summing up
    • Judge says defence case is that friends, family, children, had never seen Gerard and Allison argue, let alone violence. #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne will this morning go through the prosecution and defence closing statements
    • Judge says defence case is that the Crown has not proved their case beyond reasonable doubt and they must find not guilty. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence case is that the jury must not speculate. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said no blood in carport, house. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said Crown case is all about "perhaps" or "what probably happened". #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said nobody can prove how deceased died. #badenclay
    • Dr Milne, pathologist, could not establish a cause of death - Justice Byrne
    • Pathologist could not rule out a range of possible causes of death - Justice Byrne
    • Judge is summarising the defence's discussions on the pathologist's report. #badenclay
    • Judge is now summarising the defence's discussions on the police investigation. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said no sign of a struggle in the house, no blood in the house. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said a thorough search of the house was done by police and nothing of relevance discovered. #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne summarising the defence closing statement
    • Defence said noise travelled in the house and kids didn't hear anything - Justice Byrne
    • Judge: Defence submitted the #badenclay daughters told police their parents never fought.
    • Judge says defence said the three children heard nothing at all on the night of April 19, 2012. #badenclay
    • Evidence from defence was sound would travel in that house & girls heard nothing - Judge.
    • Judge says defence said if Gerard killed his wife that night, he must have dressed her in the walking clothes she was found in. #badenclay
    • Defence asked why children heard nothing and why no blood around the house - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence asked why had she bled only in the Captiva? #badenclay
    • Evidence from defence was sound would travel in that house & girls heard nothing - Judge.
    • Judge says defence asked if Allison was dragged through garden foliage, why did leaves stick to her and none found in car? #badenclay
    • Defence said blood in the car couldn't be aged - Justice Byrne
    • Defence asked why there weren't any leaves in the car if those in Allison's hair were from their yard - Justice Byrne
    • Jury tells jury defence asked why there could have been leaves in her hair but not in car
    • Judge: Defence submitted the #badenclay daughters told police their parents never fought.
    • Judge says defence asked why the children heard nothing and why no blood around the house?
    • Defence said absence of mud in the Captiva was significant - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence said there was no obvious signs of a cleanup in the car. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said if there is no proof of disposal of body, the Crown case collapses. #badenclay
    • Defence submitted blood was from some earlier incident - Justice Byrne
    • Defence said the case collapsed if the jury couldn't answer questions about disposal of the body - Justice Byrne
    • Defence asked why would accused kill his wife - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence said Gerard is lacking in morals, but that doesn't mean he is a murderer. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence called blood in the Captiva an 'artefact of some earlier incident.'
    • Judge says defence denied Gerard was going to leave his wife for Toni McHugh, good at making promises but nothing ever happened. #badenclay
    • Defence says #badenclay may have despicable morals but that doesn't mean he's a murderer - Judge. @9NewsBrisbane
    • Prosecution case is accused wanted to leave his wife and be with Toni McHugh - Justice Byrne
    • Defence said that wasn't the case, accused made promises and nothing came of it - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence pointed out #badenclay wasn't even faithful to Toni McHugh. She wasn't the love of his life. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Defence says #badenclay may have despicable morals but that doesn't mean he's a murderer - Judge. @9NewsBrisbane
    • Gerard wasn't even faithful to Toni McHugh, defence said - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence said Gerard was not even faithful to Toni McHugh. She was not the love of his life. #badenclay
    • Defence case was Gerard did not want to be with Toni McHugh, so no need to kill his wife to be with her - judge. #badenclay
    • Defence agued Gerard had no intention of leaving his wife, so not likely he would kill to be with Toni - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence pointed out Gerard remained calm during cross examination. He does not have a violent temper. #badenclay
    • Defence say it's ridiculous to suggest Gerard killed his wife due to financial pressure - Justice Byrne
    • Defence argued there was only a small outstanding credit card bill - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence disputed Gerard was under financial pressure. #badenclay
    • Judge: defence submitted it was ridiculous to suppose #badenclay murdered his wife because of financial difficulties. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Judge says defence said Gerard was confident the business was on the up and he'd be able to pay for the rental arm. #badenclay
    • Judge tells jury that the defence argued "an unplanned, spontaneous murder was as unlikely as a premeditated one" #badenclay @tennewsqld
    • Defence said insurance policies were prudent for parents of three young girls - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says defence case is that the leaves could have washed into Allison's hair by the creek. #badenclay
    • Judge: Defence submitted leaves found in Allison's hair meant she had to have been in moving body of water. #badenclay @7NewsBrisbane
    • Gerard's father was behind early call to insurance company, defence said - Justice Byrne
    • Defence suggested water movement in Kholo Creek could explain leaves in Allison's hair - Justice Byrne
    • Defence said the accused had never attempted to conceal the marks on his face - Justice Byrne
    • Justice John Byrne is summing up the closing address from the address #badenclay: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...710-3bnzp.html
    • Judge says defence case is Gerard never attempted to conceal marks on his face, told everyone who asked they were from shaving. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said none of the experts could be 100 per cent sure what caused the marks on Gerard's face. #badenclay
    • Defence said Gerard told everyone who asked the marks were from shaving in a rush with an old razor - Justice Byrne
    • Defence said there were serious limitations on expert evidence - Justice Byrne
    • Defence said experts couldn't 100 percent confirm the marks were from fingernails or exclude a shaving injury - Justice Byrne
    • Defence said even if they concluded the marks were not from a razor, didn't prove guilt - Justice Byrne
    • Judge: the defence told court #badenclay never attempted to conceal marks on his face, even to police. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Justice Byrne summarising b4 jury retires. @francenenorton @JoshBavas and I will have the latest TV, radio and online @abcnews #badenclay
    • Gerard is sitting up straight, looking towards Justice John Byrne as he sums up
    • Justice John Byrne going through defence closing address. Part of his summation before jury will go out. @7NewsBrisbane #badenclay
    • Judge reminds jury the defence submitted that the accused doesn't know what happened to his wife #badenclay @tennewsqld
    • Justice Byrne is going through defence closing statement about Allison's mental health
    • Judge says defence discussed Allison's mental health history, her Zoloft use, her sessions with psychologists. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence discussed advice from marriage counsellor a few days before she disappeared. #badenclay
    • Jurors are looking at screens showing Justice Byrne's remarks as he speaks. Very little note taking again today
    • Judge says defence case is that discussions of up affair in counsellor-advised sessions would have caused a relapse of depression.#badenclay
    • Judge says defence case was Allison was stressed at the hairdressers on April 19, 2012. #badenclay
    • Most jurors leaning back in their seats, a couple leaning forward to see the screens in front of them
    • Judge says defence told jury to consider Allison was upset after hearing of birth of nephew. They claim she always wanted a son. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence asked why Allison missed a parent teacher interview for a hairdressing appointment. #badenclay
    • Defence raised a possible scenario of what happened to Allison - Justice Byrne
    • Allison possibly stayed up thinking about the affair, defence scenario - Justice Byrne
    • Judge tells #badenclay jury that defence argued suicide is often as a surprise and impossible to predict. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Judge says defence case was Allison stayed up late, thinking about the affair, possibly went for a walk to clear her head. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence said she plugged her husband's phone into charge at 1.48am, took some Sertraline, went for a walk. #badenclay
    • Judge says defence suggested she walked to Kholo Creek and ended up at the creek. #badenclay
    • What if she decided to go for a walk, took a Zoloft tablet, puts husband's phone on charger - defence scenario
    • She kept walking. Ends up at river. Pathologist couldn't rule out drowning - defence scenario
    • Judge talks through defence scenario - Allison went for walk, possibly drowned, jumped or fell.
    • Judge says defence said Gerard did not have to give evidence, but he did. #badenclay
    • Defence said Gerard wanted to give evidence at the trial, exposed himself to cross examination - Justice Byrne
    • Judge is now summing up the prosecution case. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard and Allison appeared to be the perfect couple, but they weren't. #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne has now completed his summation of the defence closing argument for the #badenclay jury. Next, prosecution's case.
    • Judge: defence says #badenclay not someone to kill wife cold-bloodedly, explode on the quick.

    • Now on to summing up the prosecution case
    • Circumstantial cases can be powerful, prosecution said - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard had pressures from many angles in April, 2012. #badenclay
    • Judge now going through prosecution case. #badenclay @abcnews
    • We're at p109 of Justice Byrne's summing up. He's now started to talk about the prosecution case. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown case is that Allison would not have been upset about birth of nephew. It had been six years since her last birth.#badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Allison was a reluctant exerciser. She would not have walked 13km, nobody saw her walking. #badenclay
    • Scientific certainty is not to be expected, prosecution - Justice Byrne
    • Allison was a reluctant exerciser, had plans that morning, did not walk to the bridge, prosecution - Justice Byrne
    • There was not a single sighting of Allison walking, prosecution said - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown showed rainfall records, creek would not have been muddy at the time. Area leading down to creek was vegetated. #badenclay
    • At this pace of judge's summation, it's possible the #badenclay jury could be sent out to deliberate by lunch. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Location of the body consistent with it being rolled or pushed off ledge just above it, prosecution - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown said Allison had been rolled or pushed from the ledge above. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said there was no evidence Allison was drug affected. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said post mortem changes showed Allison's body had not moved. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown case is that drowning is not a reasonable suggestion. No evidence of it. #badenclay
    • Judge: Pros says no suggestion Allison was taken to site by somone other than husband. @abcnews #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne: "A circumstantial case, however, can be powerful" #badenclay:
    • No fractures, which would have been expected if she had jumped off bridge,prosecution - Justice Byrne
    • No diatoms detected, therefore deceased did not drown, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Judge: Pros argued location of body and surrounds consistent with body having been rolled or pushed off ledge above. @abcnews #badenclay
    • Body dumped there to avoid suspicion, Crown said - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown said no evidence of recent Sertraline ingestion. #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne going through the Crown's take on Allison's mental health and medication
    • Judge says Prosecution argued bruise to Allison's chest and chipped tooth were consistent with a struggle. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown case is that drug toxicity as a cause of death is excluded by the evidence. #badenclay
    • Judge says prosecution's case is that Allison's body was dumped to avoid suspicion and delay discovery #badenclay @tennewsqld
    • Allison had three children, engaged in business, making plans, excited about conference, prosecution says - Justice Byrne
    • She was not concerned about the birth of nephew, prosecution - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown case is that Allison was not depressed. Evidence from those who saw her that day was she was "great". #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown pointed out the baby monitor in Gerard and Allison's room as evidence sound did not travel well in house. #badenclay
    • Judge says prosecution told jury only the person who killed Allison #badenclay knows method of death. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Leaves from six species in her hair and jumper, all found at her house, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • The head of the deceased came into contact with leaf litter at the house, Crown said - Justice Byrne
    • Judge: prosecution argued that the head of the deceased came into contact with leaf litter at #badenclay house. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Captiva only in their possession since late February, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • No prior injury to explain Allison's blood in the car, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Gerard tried to disguise scratch marks on his face with other, later shaving cuts, Crown says - Justice Byrne
    • Gerard had no explanation for an injury near his right shoulder, Crown says - Justice Byrne
    • Experts concluded broader abrasions were fingernail scratches, Crown says - Justice Byrne
    • Scratches showed he used violence on his wife, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Prosecution said #badenclay facial marks show close hand contact w someone striking out to defend herself from him - Judge. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Judge says Crown said scratches occurred after the last time the girls saw their mother and before they got up to find her gone. #badenclay
    • The violence was close up, intentional, Crown says - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown said there were three pressures on Gerard at the time: financial, wife and mistress. #badenclay
    • Prosecution then argued #badenclay shaved over the marks to try and make them look like razor cuts - Judge. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Phone was put on Gerard's side of the bed, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Pressure from his wife, lover, business, Crown says - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard played up his wife's depression in the hope the jury would consider she committed suicide. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard played up his wife's depression in the hope the jury would consider she committed suicide. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown pointed out Gerard never told police about his conversations with Toni McHugh on the Thursday night. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Allison was sharing his passions at the business while Gerard was out resuming his affair. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown case is Gerard was in love with Toni. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Toni had demanded he tell Allison both women would be at the same conference the next day. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard had mounting debts that needed to be paid. #badenclay
    • Judge now summing up prosecution arguments re the pressure on #badenclay to leave Allison for Toni McHugh. @7NewsBrisbane
    • He had to sell his Lexus, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • The three pressures coming together, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • April 16, spoke to counsellor, told to listen to his wife, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown case is that Gerard made up a story to explain why he said in emails he loved Toni McHugh. #badenclay
    • Judge - the prosecution said the 3 pressures (wife, finances, affairs) were coming together for #badenclay. @7NewsBrisbane
    • Allison expressed happy about birth of nephew, not consistent with being upset about failing to produce a male heir, Crown case
    • Judge says Crown case is that Allison told people she was happy about the birth of her nephew. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard told Toni he was going to sell the business and be with her. #badenclay
    • Toni McHugh was going to a conference the next day, found out Allison was attending too, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Pressure on the accused, Crown - Justice Byrne
    • Allison unlikely to have gone for a walk that morning she was time poor, Crown case - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown case is that his wife could have found out he'd continued affair at the conference with catastrophic results. #badenclay
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard told police he'd seen no signs of depression in his wife - contrast to his testimony. #badenclay
    • Accused had opportunity scratches on his cheek, lied about them, tension with wife and lover, Crown case - Justice Byrne
    • Real prospector his life with Ms McHugh being exposed the next day, Crown case - Justice Byrne
    • Judge says Crown said Gerard had an opportunity to kill, lied about scratches on his cheek, discussions with mistress that night. #badenclay

    • Justice Byrne now giving instructions on delivering the verdict.
    • Justice Byrne completes summing up of closing statements
    • Jury told when they return to court after reaching a verdict, associate will ask if they have agreed
    • Associate will ask whether they have found Gerard guilty or not guilty of murder, foreman will answer. #badenclay
    • Judge thanks them for the dedication in which they approached their task. #badenclay
    • The associate is now swearing the bailiff in as the jury's "keeper". #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne is now discharging the three reserve jurors. Thanks them for their service and dedication. #badenclay @abcnews
    • Justice Byrne is now discharging the three reserve jurors, who have sat through every day of testimony, every witness. #badenclay
    • Justice Byrne is telling the jury its verdict must be unanimous. #badenclay
    • If the verdict is guilty of murder, no further verdict taken
    • If not guilty, they will be asked their verdict on manslaughter
    • Reserve jurors told their participation in the trial is no longer required and they are discharged
    • Justice Byrne thanks the reserves
    • "I ask you now please to retire to consider your verdict." Justice Byrne to jury. Jury out. #badenclay
    • Jury has now retired to consider verdict in #badenclay murder trial @9NewsBrisbane
    • Justice Byrne is now discharging the three reserve jurors. Thanks them for their service and dedication.
    • Justice Byrne: I ask you now please to retire to consider your verdict.
    • I ask you now to retire to consider your verdict
    • Gerard Baden-Clay looking in the direction of the jurors as they leave the court
    • On day 18, week five, of Gerard Baden-Clay's murder trial, the jury has retired to consider their verdict
     
  6. LadyBird1

    LadyBird1 Member

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    The last few days, I have thinking about his going ahead with Business as Usual.

    Just that alone is one great big red flag. Going about "Business as usual", including being adorned with cufflinks.
     
  7. MadDoc

    MadDoc Member

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    Tomorrow is the 11th.

    I wonder whether anything of significance will happen at 11:11 tomorrow?
     
  8. marlywings

    marlywings Former Member

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    A reminder to all members...

    Derogatory Name Changes to Case Players/General Name Calling

    In an effort to keep case discussion constructive, name calling, general bashing and using derogatory name variations for any of the case players is not tolerated. Regardless of how we may feel about many of the people that are the focus of our discussion here,it is always best to elevate the conversation and avoid this type of posting behavior. Feel free to express your displeasure with individuals that are being discussed, just avoid petty nastiness,name calling, name changes and over the top rude posts directed at case players.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iquette-amp-Information&p=8364858#post8364858
     
  9. BigT

    BigT Well-Known Member

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    I haven't changed, But I am concerned there is no crime scene evidence that it was definitely GBC himself that killed, and disposed of ABC.
     
  10. kiwi50

    kiwi50 Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone please tell me if the jury decided they will deliberate on Friday/s ?
     
  11. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    I remember this was brought up before MadDoc and someone said they are not related. Just waiting for anyone else to verify this. jmo
     
  12. Jo04

    Jo04 Member

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    My thoughts are with the 3 little girls and the dickies. May the jury have a quick and unanimous deliberation. To the wonderful people on this forum for your insights, wit, and making a novice sleuther, feel welcomed. I can't thank you enough. It's kind of surreal that we get to know Gerard Baden-Clays' fate very soon. I've followed since I seen that interview on the news with his sister and he was just a little bit Suss. Let's hope guilty of murder and guilty of interference with a corpse xxxxx


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  13. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Ditto. :tears: :candle:
     
  14. BrissyLass

    BrissyLass New Member

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    No relation
     
  15. FigTree

    FigTree Well-Known Member

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    Todays tweets Posted by the Re-Tweet Team in order of posting PDF
     
  16. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    As I remember, mon-fri, 9am to 4pm. :)
     
  17. marlywings

    marlywings Former Member

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  18. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    :yourock:

    Awesome FigTree what a big job it is to put them together


    :tyou:
     
  19. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    11:43am: We'll bring you the verdict here as soon as it is handed down.



    11:42am: The public gallery in Court 11 has been reserved for the families of Allison Baden-Clay and Gerard Baden-Clay and the police officers and detectives involved in the investigation.

    Other seating in the courtroom has been reserved for the media.

    But the verdict will be broadcast in two other courtrooms for interested members of the public, including the ceremonial Banco Court which seats 147 people.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-18-week-5-20140710-3bnzp.html#ixzz371hArp00
     
  20. Mrs G Norris

    Mrs G Norris Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh I can't wait, I hope they're back tomorrow afternoon so we hear it before the weekend, I think there's a chance they might be ..
     
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