The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 11th -12th June - Trial Days 2 & 3 - Week 1

[DrWatson]

The 5cm bruise to her chest, that would be about the size of a fist. Did he punch her in the chest??

5cm is about 2 inches. So nowhere near the size of a fist. And the "bruise" couldn't actually be confirmed as being a bruise, even under the microscope.

And oh such slack reporting from the Brisbane Times:

The level of Zoloft in her system was above the recommended therapeutic level.

That is NOT right. The level was measured from samples taken from her liver, which normally concentrates drugs such as sertraline. The levels in her liver were totally consistent with what would be expected, which would be several times higher than a peripheral blood sample would show.

That is either evidence that was poorly explained (I'm not in court so don't know how that was put across) or poorly understood and not checked by the reporter.

 

[LadyBird1]

That's so true. I had to cut my hair short because it became unmanageable in my lowest months


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Highly significant post Jo04.
Thank you so much.

 

[marlywings]

I think it's because he's trying so damn hard to suck his gut in for the photo. It's a REAL strain! :floorlaugh:

The jumper being wrapped around her head inside out with her hands still in the sleeves suggests to me that it was pulled over her head by GBC, to stop her from scratching him again, possibly..? So if this was the case, and she had foliage in her hair, perhaps there was a struggle outside of the house..? Milne says if it was a bruise, it would have been a blunt force injury of mild force. He says it was left front of chest, about 5cm in size.
The 5cm bruise to her chest, that would be about the size of a fist. Did he punch her in the chest??

And to him wearing his wedding ring, and wearing a yellow tie. He is claiming that he is not guilty. He believes that he will be found not guilty, and in doing so, he is then eligible for the payout of Allison's insurance policies.

When you look at domestic violence cases, a great majority of women are beaten & left with a lot of bruising.

In my opinion, Allison was beaten, bruised & possibly kicked down those front steps. How on earth would such a "fine upstanding member of society" explain such bruising to the world.

Dump her body from the bridge & make it appear she suicided.

 

[STELLA85]

I dont understand the point of Swalwell and Christ being called as witnesses ? Are they for defence ?

 

[possumheart]

When you look at domestic violence cases, a great majority of women are beaten & left with a lot of bruising.

In my opinion, Allison was beaten, bruised & possibly kicked down those front steps. How on earth would such a "fine upstanding member of society" explain such bruising to the world.

Dump her body from the bridge & make it appear she suicided.

So I suppose the job of the Defence is to make that unimaginable from such a 'nice guy', when in reality he may well have done that and been so horrified with himself that he dumped the evidence.
It would also be to their advantage to keep reinforcing how much A loved G, and any anxiety in that relationship was due to her fear of losing him, NOT because things didn't feel right and he seemed to be sneaking around ...
:sigh:

 

[LadyBird1]

That's so true. I had to cut my hair short because it became unmanageable in my lowest months


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The reason IMO your post is so significant is this: Sounds like you are talking about real depression as opposed to Anxiety or PND.
The very real depression you mention is when even the hair brush seems so unnaturally heavy that is hard to raise to your head.
Your thoughts run something like this: Is it really important to run a brush through my faraway hair? Uhhh the effort ....

This is NOT what Allison Baden Clay appears to have been suffering, despite those who might like to say otherwise. Far far faraway from it.

 

[they'll get you]

I suffered severe depression once.

I was cured instantly.

I divorced him.

Problem solved.
(Best thing I ever did)

 

[BreakingNews]

I guess defense is going to go with the suicide and caterpillar scratches argument, judging by the witnesses who are friends with GBC.

Mrs G, I thought the suicide theory was ruled out at the committal. As Dr Watson pointed out, the level of zoloft in her liver indicated a normal amount, not excessive. Also witness said she asked her to drive her daughter as she was on medication and felt sick. During the first 1-3 weeks this is a normal reaction to commencing zoloft (and similar antidepressants). No other evidence indicates suicide. She would not have willingly left behind her girls!

 

[Amee]

Allison Baden-Clay's cause of death a mystery

http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clays-wife-lover-apart/2285637/

 

[Curiousasacat]

Milne says the body clearly showed post mortem changes. #badenclay


Milne says there was a lot of soft tissue loss around her head and face. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 5s

Milne says the state of her body was consistent with her having been dead up to eleven days. #badenclay

Dr Waton, you went into this previously in great detail. Can you please(when you get time) remind us of the significance of decomposition predominantly in the face.
Thanks in advance : )

 

[Radster]

When you look at domestic violence cases, a great majority of women are beaten & left with a lot of bruising.

In my opinion, Allison was beaten, bruised & possibly kicked down those front steps. How on earth would such a "fine upstanding member of society" explain such bruising to the world.

Dump her body from the bridge & make it appear she suicided.

Has a record of domestic violence ever been established, or only alluded to?

 

[Amee]

Dr Milne said there were no definite injuries on Allison's body but post mortem changes limited his examination.

He said the putrefaction and mummification decomposition changed the colour the skin which could obscure injuries.

Dr Milner said there could also be head injuries where insects or animals had eaten to the soft tissue skin.

He said insects were attracted to the face area so the soft tissue decomposition could be purely insect activity or the site of an injury.

Dr Milne said the soft tissue damage to the chin was atypical for insects.

"It's likely there was some sort of injury there," he said.

"That's an injury that could have occurred before death or after death."

Dr Milne said putrefaction was a normal decomposition process where the body goes moist, the tissues go soft and the body changes colour.

He said mummification was a little different, occurring when there is a drier environment.

Dr Milne said Allison's body showed signs of both, with some parts on the mud and other parts exposed.

http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clays-wife-lover-apart/2285637/

 

[DrWatson]

Dr Watkins, you went into this previously in great detail. Can you please(when you get time) remind us of the significance of decomposition predominantly in the face.
Thanks in advance : )

Some tissue and some areas of the body decompose more quickly than other areas. The face is one such area, mainly because it is actually not very "deep" - it overlies the bones of the facial skeleton very closely. Another area where that occurs is on the front of the shin, overlying the tibia - and could explain the defect found there in the autopsy. It could have been simply the skin and tissues "tearing" away from the underlying bone.

The face exhibits similar characteristics - there is a fat pad overlying the cheek area beside the mouth in most people, but apart from that, there's not a lot of other tissue apart from a thin layer of muscles that are responsible for facial expression.

And of course, if the body was lying in a position where the high tide partially covered some parts of it, then those parts would have been decomposing in an accelerated fashion, too.

So, from the position she was found to be in, it is conceivable that at least one of her legs, and perhaps her face too, could have been partially submerged on the high tides - which is why Nathan Milne wanted to get her up and away from her resting position a.s.a.p. as the high tide was approaching. That was stated in court, as well as in the autopsy report.

Hope that makes sense....

 

[BreakingNews]

While there is a lull and everyone is most likely running around getting things done, once again I'd like to thank those adding the updates. Also thanks for the expert legal insights from Alioops yesterday and from Doc Watson today. It is invaluable for understanding and insight and helps our general discussion. Thanks everyone. And special thanks to Marlywings for keeping us on the straight and narrow and Makara for her ability to pull a photo or quote out of thin air.

 

[DrWatson]

I'm stuck in the office today, so have this running beside me. Makes it very hard to concentrate on the other type of work I'm supposed to be doing...!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 13m
Court resuming at 2.30pm with more witnesses who were in touch with Allison #badenclay on April 19

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Mrs G, I thought the suicide theory was ruled out at the committal. As Dr Watson pointed out, the level of zoloft in her liver indicated a normal amount, not excessive. Also witness said she asked her to drive her daughter as she was on medication and felt sick. During the first 1-3 weeks this is a normal reaction to commencing zoloft (and similar antidepressants). No other evidence indicates suicide. She would not have willingly left behind her girls!

We'll see .. I think they may still break out with that one.

Allison Baden-Clay's cause of death a mystery

http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clays-wife-lover-apart/2285637/

This is bad news for the prosecution in anyone's language .. I think we'll see a conviction here, but it still gives the defense a bit of wriggle room which could make for an interesting trial.

 

[Thinking]

12:53pm: Mrs Christ said she was aware that Mrs Baden-Clay had suffered depression after the birth of her first daughter.

"She struggled with depression," Mrs Christ said.

Mrs Christ said Mrs Baden-Clay was concerned about the impact of her anxiety on her children.

"She was concerned she had created anxiety in them," she said.

The court heard Mrs Baden-Clay spent a lot of time on the couch after the birth of her first child.

"Gerard stayed at home for quite a long period to be there and support Allison," Mrs Christ said.

In late 2011, Mrs Baden-Clay was due to drive her eldest daughters to a school camp about 40 minutes from their Brookfield home.But Mrs Baden-Clay called Mrs Christ days before the camp saying she could not drive because she was taking anti-depressants which were making her feel nauseous and

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-2-week-1-20140611-39wcd.html#ixzz34INXO0Ya

Re the last paragraph, this wouldn't have been long after Allison learning of GBCs affair with TM right? No wonder poor Allison was struggling. It sounds as though she has really pulled it together by early 2012 though and was being strong and positive with aspirations for the future.

 

[Thinking]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou
Ms Swalwell: (Gerard) was very nice to me. #badenclay

That seems to me to be a very diplomatic answer

 

[Thinking]

I don't find it alarming that GBC was so nice to these women. It seems he is overly nice to all women..except his wife !!!

Exactly! :banghead: