The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 11th -12th June - Trial Days 2 & 3 - Week 1

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Jun 3, 2014.

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  1. DrWatson

    DrWatson Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon

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    5cm is about 2 inches. So nowhere near the size of a fist. And the "bruise" couldn't actually be confirmed as being a bruise, even under the microscope.

    And oh such slack reporting from the Brisbane Times:

    That is NOT right. The level was measured from samples taken from her liver, which normally concentrates drugs such as sertraline. The levels in her liver were totally consistent with what would be expected, which would be several times higher than a peripheral blood sample would show.

    That is either evidence that was poorly explained (I'm not in court so don't know how that was put across) or poorly understood and not checked by the reporter.
     


  2. LadyBird1

    LadyBird1 Member

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    Highly significant post Jo04.
    Thank you so much.
     
  3. marlywings

    marlywings Former Member

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    When you look at domestic violence cases, a great majority of women are beaten & left with a lot of bruising.

    In my opinion, Allison was beaten, bruised & possibly kicked down those front steps. How on earth would such a "fine upstanding member of society" explain such bruising to the world.

    Dump her body from the bridge & make it appear she suicided.
     
  4. STELLA85

    STELLA85 New Member

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    I dont understand the point of Swalwell and Christ being called as witnesses ? Are they for defence ?
     
  5. possumheart

    possumheart Well-Known Member

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    So I suppose the job of the Defence is to make that unimaginable from such a 'nice guy', when in reality he may well have done that and been so horrified with himself that he dumped the evidence.
    It would also be to their advantage to keep reinforcing how much A loved G, and any anxiety in that relationship was due to her fear of losing him, NOT because things didn't feel right and he seemed to be sneaking around ...
    :sigh:
     
  6. LadyBird1

    LadyBird1 Member

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    The reason IMO your post is so significant is this: Sounds like you are talking about real depression as opposed to Anxiety or PND.
    The very real depression you mention is when even the hair brush seems so unnaturally heavy that is hard to raise to your head.
    Your thoughts run something like this: Is it really important to run a brush through my faraway hair? Uhhh the effort ....

    This is NOT what Allison Baden Clay appears to have been suffering, despite those who might like to say otherwise. Far far faraway from it.
     
  7. they'll get you

    they'll get you On Time Out

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    I suffered severe depression once.

    I was cured instantly.

    I divorced him.

    Problem solved.
    (Best thing I ever did)
     
  8. BreakingNews

    BreakingNews Well-Known Member

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    Mrs G, I thought the suicide theory was ruled out at the committal. As Dr Watson pointed out, the level of zoloft in her liver indicated a normal amount, not excessive. Also witness said she asked her to drive her daughter as she was on medication and felt sick. During the first 1-3 weeks this is a normal reaction to commencing zoloft (and similar antidepressants). No other evidence indicates suicide. She would not have willingly left behind her girls!
     
  9. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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  10. Curiousasacat

    Curiousasacat New Member

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    Dr Waton, you went into this previously in great detail. Can you please(when you get time) remind us of the significance of decomposition predominantly in the face.
    Thanks in advance : )
     
  11. Radster

    Radster New Member

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    Has a record of domestic violence ever been established, or only alluded to?
     
  12. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Dr Milne said there were no definite injuries on Allison's body but post mortem changes limited his examination.

    He said the putrefaction and mummification decomposition changed the colour the skin which could obscure injuries.

    Dr Milner said there could also be head injuries where insects or animals had eaten to the soft tissue skin.

    He said insects were attracted to the face area so the soft tissue decomposition could be purely insect activity or the site of an injury.

    Dr Milne said the soft tissue damage to the chin was atypical for insects.

    "It's likely there was some sort of injury there," he said.

    "That's an injury that could have occurred before death or after death."

    Dr Milne said putrefaction was a normal decomposition process where the body goes moist, the tissues go soft and the body changes colour.

    He said mummification was a little different, occurring when there is a drier environment.

    Dr Milne said Allison's body showed signs of both, with some parts on the mud and other parts exposed.

    http://www.qt.com.au/news/gerard-baden-clays-wife-lover-apart/2285637/
     
  13. DrWatson

    DrWatson Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon

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    Some tissue and some areas of the body decompose more quickly than other areas. The face is one such area, mainly because it is actually not very "deep" - it overlies the bones of the facial skeleton very closely. Another area where that occurs is on the front of the shin, overlying the tibia - and could explain the defect found there in the autopsy. It could have been simply the skin and tissues "tearing" away from the underlying bone.

    The face exhibits similar characteristics - there is a fat pad overlying the cheek area beside the mouth in most people, but apart from that, there's not a lot of other tissue apart from a thin layer of muscles that are responsible for facial expression.

    And of course, if the body was lying in a position where the high tide partially covered some parts of it, then those parts would have been decomposing in an accelerated fashion, too.

    So, from the position she was found to be in, it is conceivable that at least one of her legs, and perhaps her face too, could have been partially submerged on the high tides - which is why Nathan Milne wanted to get her up and away from her resting position a.s.a.p. as the high tide was approaching. That was stated in court, as well as in the autopsy report.

    Hope that makes sense....
     
  14. BreakingNews

    BreakingNews Well-Known Member

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    While there is a lull and everyone is most likely running around getting things done, once again I'd like to thank those adding the updates. Also thanks for the expert legal insights from Alioops yesterday and from Doc Watson today. It is invaluable for understanding and insight and helps our general discussion. Thanks everyone. And special thanks to Marlywings for keeping us on the straight and narrow and Makara for her ability to pull a photo or quote out of thin air.
     
  15. DrWatson

    DrWatson Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon

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    I'm stuck in the office today, so have this running beside me. Makes it very hard to concentrate on the other type of work I'm supposed to be doing...! ;)
     
  16. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 13m
    Court resuming at 2.30pm with more witnesses who were in touch with Allison #badenclay on April 19
     
  17. Mrs G Norris

    Mrs G Norris Well-Known Member

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    We'll see .. I think they may still break out with that one.

    This is bad news for the prosecution in anyone's language .. I think we'll see a conviction here, but it still gives the defense a bit of wriggle room which could make for an interesting trial.
     
  18. Thinking

    Thinking New Member

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    Re the last paragraph, this wouldn't have been long after Allison learning of GBCs affair with TM right? No wonder poor Allison was struggling. It sounds as though she has really pulled it together by early 2012 though and was being strong and positive with aspirations for the future.
     
  19. Thinking

    Thinking New Member

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    That seems to me to be a very diplomatic answer :)
     
  20. Thinking

    Thinking New Member

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    Exactly! :banghead:
     
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