The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 16th June - Trial Day 4

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I've been following this thread(s) for the last two years, and have rarely posted, but in February this year it suddenly got more personal when my friend, Cheryl Adamson and her husband Robert were murdered in Melbourne.

I really just wanted to say - well done - to all of you who have followed this case so loyally and passionately for so long.

I love how many have taken the time to attend court, or repost tweets, or just be on-line and debate all the details.

It really must be so comforting to Allison's family that there are so many who believe that she met an untimely end, and are prepared to 'see it through'.

I dont' think we'll get the same for Cheryl and Robert, as the accused has plead guilty and therefore they won't get their 'day in court' the same way. And, while thats good in some ways, it will leave unanswered questions for the rest of us.

But I'm sure Allison is smiling on you all, and that reading this is a comfort to her family - so well done, Websleuths! And particularly those of you who are personally involved. You have my sympathy and admiration.

My condolences to you for your friends' terrible murders. It is so much harder to have any understanding of this type of crime when one does not have a reason or motive, as in this case. It is terrible for the family and all who knew and loved them.
 
I also talked to them after that when I had a strange man approach me outside the tennis courts on Brookfield Rd. It was a day I had started later and had someone picking me up on the way through. A strange man had stood across the road watching me and then he crossed over and asked where the shop was. He just seemed out of place.
.... kiwijayne, I can remember you reporting that here on Websleuths. At the time, I think that you had wondered if he was a Detective. What did that man look like?
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226955474656

Snipped from above link:

Mrs Dickie: She told us that Gerard no longer loved her and I said, `well, come and live with us on the coast if you want to’ and she said `no’, she wasn’t going to leave him,” she said.

I had mis-interpreted twitter as 'she wasn't going to leave the girls'.
------

Ms Baden-Walton said her sister-in-law ran resilience training programs in schools and sold healthy chemical-free household products and supplements as a side business.

Could this be where the weight loss injections stem from?

“That was like a multi-level marketing arrangement where she joined as a distributor and she had a party where she played a DVD that we all watched and encouraged other people to also purchase the product,” she said.

“From the purchasing of the product she got a commission

I get the impression OW wants it known that Allison was making a profit from her involvement in the resilience program.
**Correction - misread that. Profit was referring to health products sold**

IMO
 
Dear Kiwijane, I believe you, I promise. Not just because, (though I considered your Means Motive and Opportunity, and failed to see any); no, it was more to do with the fact that you walked, no car. (A long time ago, but this was me too) When you are on foot, you take a lot more details in. Not only do you recognise houses and the state of their lawns etc, you also recognise people and faces.
Not only do I believe you when you say you saw NO Allison out walking, and you say you saw no OW driving around looking and questioning people just like you; I believe that all that is a LIE. A Pure fabrication. A furphy. I do not believe that Allison was out walking. I do not believe OW either.
Thank you dear Kiwijane.


Thanks.

I had no choice but to be observant. I had to watch for cars, holes etc etc on the road. I would have noticed her like the 2 ladies that I saw running on the road who always reminded me of barbies dolls. Or the blue car with the older gentlemen in it who liked to read the paper parked up along from the rest home.
 
I had dismissed the Baden-Walton name mentioned today as a typo/misquote, but there it is again mentioned in Courier Mail.

Has OW changed her name??
 
.... kiwijayne, I can remember you reporting that here on Websleuths. At the time, I think that you had wondered if he was a Detective. What did that man look like?

He was walking a dog(that I noticed I love dogs) he had dark hair and was tall and skinny. He was just out of place to the people I normally saw around.
 
Thanks.

I had no choice but to be observant. I had to watch for cars, holes etc etc on the road. I would have noticed her like the 2 ladies that I saw running on the road who always reminded me of barbies dolls. Or the blue car with the older gentlemen in it who liked to read the paper parked up along from the rest home.

Note the eye for detail that a person on foot has. She takes in everything. Every itsy bitsy seemingly irrelevant detail.
Imagine if something big were to happen, like an OW type person driving around, slowly, stopping, driving, eyes everywhere, looking looking for something or someone, and she is asking people, random, people if they have seen .......
 
Note the eye for detail that a person on foot has. She takes in everything. Every itsy bitsy seemingly irrelevant detail.
Imagine if something big were to happen, like an OW person driving around, slowly, looking looking for something or someone, and she is asking people, random people if they have seen .......

Maybe the police didn't need to call Kiwijayne as a witness because they already knew from OW's phone records that she was not driving that area looking for Allison?
 
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 28s

Olivia: Gerard at one stage worked from a home office in his garage, was wanting to be with Allison. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 30s

Olivia says Allison "really struggled" to input the routine they'd decided to enforce on the children. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 49s

Olivia: The pressures of life seemed to be too much for her. #badenclay

I'm only partway through reading all of todays posts.. But I am getting REALLY frustrated with the portrait GBC family seem to be painting of Allison. Its as though they are trying to excuse all he has done, because poor dear had to live with this awful wife who just lay around in a severe depression for the last 10 years or so and he had to endure it all. Its frustrating that they keep talking about what it was like after the birth of her first or second child and how she was depressed..blah, blah, blah.. but is that really how things were in recent times? They are not talking about that at all..its all about how she was x number of years ago. Not saying she may still have been suffering some level of depression leading up to her death, but what they are talking about- what I have read so far is way before that time. And by all accounts, Allison did not sound severly depressed in recent times- she was getting involved in her life and her kids lives, trying to save her marriage etc.. not lying on the couch with the curtains drawn. And then we come back to if they are trying to say she must have suicided, how do they suggest she got out to kholo bridge? walked all that way and threw herself over?
 
I'm only partway through reading all of todays posts.. But I am getting REALLY frustrated with the portrait GBC family seem to be painting of Allison. Its as though they are trying to excuse all he has done, because poor dear had to live with this awful wife who just lay around in a severe depression for the last 10 years or so and he had to endure it all. Its frustrating that they keep talking about what it was like after the birth of her first or second child and how she was depressed..blah, blah, blah.. but is that really how things were in recent times? They are not talking about that at all..its all about how she was x number of years ago. Not saying she may still have been suffering some level of depression leading up to her death, but what they are talking about- what I have read so far is way before that time. And by all accounts, Allison did not sound severly depressed in recent times- she was getting involved in her life and her kids lives, trying to save her marriage etc.. not lying on the couch with the curtains drawn. And then we come back to if they are trying to say she must have suicided, how do they suggest she got out to kholo bridge? walked all that way and threw herself over?


I know. It really grates. It's frustrating. Seems so unjust

But don't worry, things will be well. You can see through it and so can the jury. It's the jury which decides his fate. And there are no BCs on that jury. Just people like you
 
I am reposting my now competed post as I wrote it in stages with edits as I was scared it could disappear and it's taken me an hour to write. So those who had already seen some of can now see the finished version.

Sorry it's taken me so long to post following my morning in court. I also shouldn't post using my phone in a bus as I re read my post and it made little sense!

The overflow court room
I have never been in an overflow courtroom before and it was a very interesting experience. The normal courtroom is very serious and full of lots of official people including the judge, barristers, lawyers, bailiffs, security and the families of the parties involved. Not so in the overflow court. It was like movie night without the popcorn! There were 2 big screens set up just in front of the first set of lawyer tables so the room was about half the size. The rest of the room was screened off. The screen on the left was for exhibits such as the map of Brookfield that OW used to describe where she drove searching for Allison. On the right the screen was divided into 4 sections like the brady bunch screen. Top left was a close up of the judge. Top right was a close up of the witness giving evidence. Bottom left was the judges view looking at the prosecution lawyers with GBC sitting behind them in the dock and the public gallery behind. On the right was the defence. The room was packed including about 20 private high school girls. People were sitting on the floor and it was very uncourt like. People were finally allowed to sit in the dock after some time.There were only two court ladies sitting with the video machine thing.


Many in the overflow room reacted to various witnesses, including one lady who yelled out to Olivia on the screen "you are lying!" When Nigel made his now infamous judgement on dark clothes being a manifestation of depression, there were great stirrings in the room with most of the people there commenting on their level of depression based on what they were wearing. Lots of vocal interaction which would not happen in the courtroom. Laughing and a few claps. I kept thinking we are going to get in trouble. I am following the Oscar Pistorius trial and on one day there were lots of outbursts in the overflow room that I think the judge could hear and she had words to them . Lucky today we were on a completely different floor. I have to say there was a hell of a lot more atmosphere in that overflow room than I have ever seen in a courtroom. And a great close up of the witnesses that you normally don't get to see. So if anyone is worried about not getting a seat in the courtroom don't worry, go to the overflow room and get a seat early.

Nigel

He was well spoken with little accent. We were nearly sent into a hypnotic trance with his striped tie from the video feed ( the reason newsreaders wear plain ones). He looked uncomfortable to begin with. He took responsibility for filling in the life insurance claim forms for GBC to sign and for GBC notifying the life insurance company on the day Allison's body was found. His reason this was done was he said due to the terms in the policy that requires immediate notification of an event (death). I found this very interesting because I have collected hundreds and hundreds of life insurances for deceased estates that I have administered. Not one of those was rushed to "comply with the terms of the policy". I would say to clients at a first meeting, let's get the funeral sorted and paid and a death certificate, then we will notify all the companies, banks, share registeries etc. Not once did I ever get a reply from a life insurance company upset that they weren't notified the day of the persons death. Never ever ever.
He also took responsibility for GBC lawyering up the day Allison was reported missing. OW told him that there were police everywhere and Nigel found that very concerning. Me, I would have thought that's amazing, all these wonderful police taking Allison's disappearance so seriously and so quickly. But no he is worried they are suspecting his son has done away with her. He had good reason though given the horrific scratch marks on his face that were weeping for all to see.


Olivia
Confirmed her name as Olivia ? Baden Walton. Can't remember her middle name. She gave a very polished testimony. She appeared calm and was very well spoken, however her constant wringing of her hands showed her underlying feelings. You have heard the reports of her testimony, a very mixed recollection of Allison. She described her as very capable, smart etc on the one hand but then as someone not able to cope with life. She described in great detail that the prosecution just let her go on with, about all the support and help she gave Allison such as caring for Allisons children and teaching her how to cook basic meals etc. She seemed confused throughout her relationship with Allison about why she couldn't cope yet what I found really odd was that she appeared not to try to raise it with Allison and offer to take her to the doctor or get her help. I just couldn't understand this. Sure Allison was a private person but if Olivia really had to do all she said she did for Allison then she had every right and reason to get serious with Allison about the underlying cause of Allison's problems.
I feel the prosecution got all this info about Allison's problems about depression out in the open so it takes the wind out of the defences sails so to speak. When the prosecution on redirect asked Olivia is she had any concerns about Allisons mood in that last week, she thought about her answer carefully and said a clear no, though she then added she could never read Allison! She was certainly pushing the depression agenda. The other agenda that she was pushing was that the birth of Adams baby upset Allison as she wanted a boy. I think the defence are trying to use this as a catalyst as a reason for Allison to kill herself. It's clearly clutching at straws in my opinion.

One tidbit, Olivia's husband was a friend of GBC and he and Olivia met at Allison and GBC's wedding in August 1997.


Mrs Dickie

Oh my, what a lovely lady. Everyone in the overflow room wanted to clap when she finished her testimony and some did, there were some cheers! Beautifully dressed and ready to testify. She was ready after 2 yrs to speak up for her daughter, and that she did, very well. When asked if Allison would have been upset about Adam's son, she exclaimed, of course what mother who has 2 or 3 girls wouldn't. She said she herself was thrilled to have a boy after her 2 girls. So again took the wind out the defences sails so well by being over the top about it and not frightened by admitting Allison would have wanted a boy. But she made it sound like it was no big deal just one of those things. She was very concerned about the state of the house when they arrived as it was so clean and sterile. I don't think she meant that it smelt like bleach or cleaning fluids as she would surely have said that. She said that Allison was clean but the house as one would expect with 3 children was usually a bit untidy. She could not believe how the house looked and was very concerned by it. The defence barrister wasn't happy with her using the word sterile and she had a go at him about well what word would you like me to use. How about very very clean! She was also upset that a round photo was not in its usual place near the entry. It was a photo taken at their wedding of the back of Allison and GBC representing them walking towards their future. A common wedding pic, I have one too.

Mr Dickie

His testimony was fairly short as his wife had done most of the talking to GBC when they arrived so he didn't have a lot to add to what she had said.

Kerry Ann

She was nervous and anxious to help with her testimony. Clearly Allison's best friend, knew about the depression and said Allison had got through it and was fantastic. Did not know Allison had found out about Toni but had asked Allison several times was GBC having an affair as she was suss about him. No doubt Allison was embarrassed that her friend was right all along and didn't want to be told, I told you so. You would think that Olivia and Kerry Ann were describing two completely different people in their evidence about Allison. Clearly Olivia overemphasised the depression and Kerry Ann glossed over it. I only heard the morning session so did not get to hear the defence questioning Kerry Ann.

Toni

Well I wouldn't know because I was on the bus! Bugger.
 
Hi all,
I have really enjoyed reading over everyone's contributions from today, thanks! I don't have much more to add except that my reaction to the notion that Allison didn't drive was similar to most of you here. OW was most definitely focusing on depression and painting a picture of a terrible life for poor Gerard.

Mrs Dickie was priceless, she really put the defence counsel in his place and at one time he seemed quite flummoxed - she demanded "well how would YOU feel if your wife told you she didn't love you any more, wouldn't you feel anxious?" - she struck me as the type of uncomplicated lady who couldn't lie if she tried. Just gorgeous. Allison would have been so proud of them both today I think. We were left in no doubt whatsoever of Mrs D's view of the BC family - I actually gained the most insight into the true family dynamics from her testimony. She is not a fan of GBC!

Toni to me was just like she was at the committal but looked a bit worse, more bedraggled. Her voice was slow, she paused a lot and had many unfinished sentences,like she may be on heavy medication. Still very much caught up in how tragic and heartbreaking the whole situation has been for her - not a care in the world about Allison's death.

Finally, I spent the lunch hour in a cafe sitting across the room from Nigelaine. Interesting that they were completely alone, (no OW even) in contrast to the enormous Dickie contingent there today. Is that where arrogance gets you I wonder? You will be pleased to know they did sneak a quick pash and cuddle though which was just what we all needed to see at that point.....not......

Thanks again everyone for the great contributions today :)
 
Wonder why OW wasn't asked about the remark she made in response to Constable Keiron Ash's question about what Allison's daughters had been told that morning after Olivia Walton returned to the house after taking the girls to school?

Queensland Police Witness Statement completed by Constable Keiron Ash stated that when asked what the girls had been told, Olivia Walton as she was then, replied, ' Gerard told the girls shortly after 6a.m. that Mummy had gone for a walk and probably fell down a hole and would not be back'

Constable Keiron Ash's statement continued: ' She (Olivia Walton) then asked, "Is that OK?"
 
I am reposting my now competed post as I wrote it in stages with edits as I was scared it could disappear and it's taken me an hour to write. So those who had already seen some of can now see the finished version.

Thanks so much Ali. Now take a good well earned rest. Will you be going again?
 
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