The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[squizzey1]

My apologies my words were incorrect.

no apology needed TGY I know what u meant I think

 

[brizzymum]

I feel almost obligated to try and envision a scenario where GBC is in fact not guilty. I keep having "Azaria Chamberlain" moments.
:

I'm with you Minerva. Good post. I was planning on doing similar.

It's incredibly valuable to consider other possibilities..

 

[squizzey1]

Yes it was and with him being a lawyer he had the smarts to do it and get away with it - though I know he wasn't convicted - just saying IF he did it. Which IMO he did. GBC just doesn't have the same smarts as LR!

no and there are 12 peers judging here not one very educated judge augers well I think :moo:

 

[Oddsocks]

I feel almost obligated to try and envision a scenario where GBC is in fact not guilty. I keep having "Azaria Chamberlain" moments.

Okay, so I don't buy that the facial marks were from a razor. I also don't buy that Allison was suicidal.

Maybe they did have a humdinger of a row that night and she scratched his face. That's why they didn't go to bed together. Allison was perhaps gung-ho on her new weight loss routine and did go out walking anyway, being highly motivated. GBC instinctively knows that something is not right when he gets up, prompting phone calls to the family. GBC wants to call the police, the family worry that the police will take one look at his scratches and think he's done something to his wife and they together cook up a *advertiser censored* and bull story about GBC cutting himself shaving. OBW's strange behaviour fits in here, she isn't taking the situation terribly seriously yet. The police don't believe him, a bad situation becomes a nightmare.

I am not convinced he really was going to leave Allison for Toni. He was unhappy in his marriage, Allison was not meeting his needs, nor was he meeting hers. But he still hadn't left. Because of his daughters? Because he was genuinely worried about the effect on Allison as well? Because he couldn't in good conscience leave when there was no money? I'm sure he was just counting on getting some good commissions in to help refloat the financial boat.

That's about the best I can do so far. I haven't yet figured out how to explain the plant matter. Or the blood. Or the motivation of a random perpetrator in snatching Allison off the side of the road, but the size of the investigation would have scared him out of the area and put him off further attacks.

I am here picking over the details of their lives and I feel guilty for finding this whole story so compelling. And I guess I would love there to be some twist in the tale whereby a wife wasn't actually murdered by her husband, three little girls won't spend the rest of their lives knowing that their father murdered their mother, that two parents won't have a murderer for a son and another two parents won't have to live with the knowledge that their daughter was murdered by her husband and worry endlessly about their granddaughters till the end of their days.

Sorry. Just another (probably worthless) :twocents:

Don't be sorry, I try and think the same. Do we do hung jury's here? The lack of DNA under her finger nails is the thing that will cause a lot of reasonable doubt in my opinion. With the all the testimony about his scratches, yet no evidence on Allison except the plants?

 

[nimrod_135]

Yes it was and with him being a lawyer he had the smarts to do it and get away with it - though I know he wasn't convicted - just saying IF he did it. Which IMO he did. GBC just doesn't have the same smarts as LR!

If you do a bit more reading on that case it really looks like that was a random sexual assault gone wrong.

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks Makara. Was thinking about that long gap between the screams, thuds etc and early morning activities.
There are a few things to fill in there now. Daughter saw her father wearing pyjamas and shoes. He said he was ironing .......
Wonder what time that was ... Where were those pyjamas next morning?
<respectfully snipped>

Recall one of the girls stating: "but the clock wasn't telling the right time".
Had the clock face been changed to confuse the time?

 

[McCoy]

Another interesting tidbit re the "view" on Monday, is that GBC had to make a request/application to court, to NOT attend. The judge accepted the request. Does this mean that the defendant would usually attend the viewing - do you know Ali? Would be so interesting as a juror to spend the whole time just watching him, if that were the case. No wonder he wouldn't want to attend (guilty or innocent admittedly).

He'd probably spend the time chatting up the females and handing out his business card!
Seriously though it has been worrying me hearing people chatting at work about the case. One person said "Oh she probably threw herself in the creek next to their home and drowned then floated up to Anstead, she sounded very depressed". Had to point out calmly:

1. At the time Allison disappeared creeks were bone dry
2. It is upstream to Anstead
3. The creek at Brookfield and Anstead do not directly join up

I hope the jurors realise this when they visit the site

 

[Humdinger]

He'd probably spend the time chatting up the females and handing out his business card!
Seriously though it has been worrying me hearing people chatting at work about the case. One person said "Oh she probably threw herself in the creek next to their home and drowned then floated up to Anstead, she sounded very depressed". Had to point out calmly:

1. At the time Allison disappeared creeks were bone dry
2. It is upstream to Anstead
3. The creek at Brookfield and Anstead do not directly join up

I hope the jurors realise this when they visit the site

See this is my point exactly! That is an opinion based on knowing VERY little, the jurors are hearing it ALL.

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[PrimeSuspect]

We still have more witnesses to come.

If there is one or more witnesses that saw either one of GBC's vehicles leave or enter his premises between 9pm 19/41 and 6am 20/4, he would have to come up with an explanation. If there is a witness/s who saw any other vehicle enter or leave his premises between those times, that will have to be explained.

If there are witness/s who saw one of GBC's vehicles travelling anywhere on the road during that time frame but especially near Kholo Creek, that has to be explained.

If there are any of these witnesses, the PT is saving them till last!

If there is CCTV footage of GBC's vehicles on the road during that time, well his goose is definitely cooked. jmo

All just my opinion, I have no idea who the next witnesses are, we can only hope if it's the case that GBC is truly guilty.

 

[Humdinger]

If you do a bit more reading on that case it really looks like that was a random sexual assault gone wrong.

Thank you nimrod, I have to admit that I know little about the case, especially in comparison to this one. I will definately look more into it!
Is there any thing in particular that made you see it that way? You've got me very intrigued now


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[marlywings]

For anyone interested we have a thread all about the Corryn Rayney case. It includes reports about the trial...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179098&highlight=corryn+rayney

 

[Humdinger]

For anyone interested we have a thread all about the Corryn Rayney case. It includes reports about the trial...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179098&highlight=corryn+rayney

Thanks Marly

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[nimrod_135]

Thank you nimrod, I have to admit that I know little about the case, especially in comparison to this one. I will definately look more into it!
Is there any thing in particular that made you see it that way? You've got me very intrigued now

Just this article:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/rayney-family-still-wondering-how-corryn-died-a-year-after-lloyd-rayney-was-cleared-of-murder/story-fnhocxo3-1226768049622

I too had the opinion he was guilty, but that article opened my mind a bit more. I still think he may be involved somehow, maybe he wasn't physically involved though?

Also comparing this to the BC case I think the BC case has lot more going for it in terms of a guilty verdict. The Rayney case was a good read in terms of understanding Reasonable Doubt and understanding how the Judge/Jury has to look at the evidence.

 

[they'll get you]

This is to our Brookfield locals. Kiwijayne possibly walked the same apparent route as Allison regularly. (Allison had a treadmill).

When you first heard of Allison's disappearance did you continue with your day to day activities like walking or watering your gardens or happy to let your children play outside?

When GBC was charged were you all relieved or did you think there could be a murderer still at large?

Im 50/50 either way right now.
Just to know the truth and justice. No winners.

 

[marlywings]

Closing this thread shortly. We'll be moving over to a new general discussion thread at following link.

Trial General Discussion Thread #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community