The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 26th June - Trial Day 11, Week 3

[LadyBird1]

Only one C word running through my head right now... :furious:

Sorry Neuromancer, that one C word is actually banned on WS.

 

[laserdisc10]

At the first opportunity available GBC shed tears, he wasn't on the stand for 10mins and his hanky was out and he was fogging up his spectacles. I can't recall the trigger - maybe something along the lines how he knew Allison was the one he felt he would marry

He was softly weeping at the thought of himself then -- falling in love with a woman, of all things

That's what triggered his dried up little tears -- thoughts of himself as he'd been then

I swear, that guy loves himself as if he were his own favourite child

 

[Tishy]

No, the defence is unable to call additional witnesses.







Could it have been inhibiting? Absolutely, but it also may be the case that he sat in on the consultations on Allison's request. Not being a psychiatrist or a medical professional at all for that matter, I'm not qualified to state this absolutely but I'd be astounded if a psychiatrist would continue seeing a patient if he/she was of the opinion that a third party was pressuring the patient to attend all of their consultations.

Can prosecution recall witnesses?

 

[Liadan]

When Danny Boyle and Mr Fuller begin their deconstruction of Gerards Fairy Tale , there wont be a dry eye in the house. .. from helpless laughter..

Love it - its so Grimm-esque!

 

[zwiebel]

Can someone help - it's driving me crazy. Was it ever said why police appealed for anyone who was at that roundabout in the road to come forward? Was that where GBC sideswiped a car?

 

[Total]

Are we to believe that Allison watched the footy show and sat up late, checked G's phone and saw he had been in touch with Tone, put the phone on the charger and got changed into XXL track suit pants and went outside, smacked her head in the back of the car, and walked off onto the night?

Thank you Possum for bringing it back to where we need to be.

You are soo right. Either Gerry deleted all the call records between him and TM (thereby deceiving Allison) when handing over the phone OR he handed the phone over to her (with all calls recorded on it)....as the honest man he is trying to make out ... And copped whatever came out of that. He cannot have it both ways......there will be more of this. But this is gold

 

[Sor Juana]

Are we to believe that Allison watched the footy show and sat up late, checked G's phone and saw he had been in touch with Tone, put the phone on the charger and got changed into XXL track suit pants and went outside, smacked her head in the back of the car, and walked off onto the night?

that what worries me. GBC is hoping to get away with his lies. Apparently, there is chance...

 

[Liadan]

What on earth does that have to do with anything?! :banghead:

We are just letting him talk Smegal - he hasn't had many friends in his cell block and we all know that he loves a bit of public speaking esp when he needs to espouse his amazing achievements:twocents:.

 

[spratsmum]

ALL MY OPINION ONLY.....

What he is doing here - by dropping the well known celebrity historical facts is trying to show that he has not made this all up - he remembers all of this BECAUSE of certain things happening around the world at that same time. Problem is - because he is doing this with everything he says - it is starting to sound contrived.

Hope the jury is smart

I agree I think he is dating everything through historical events

 

[enthralled]

As usual I am behind in the posts. Gbc will say their relationship was not one of histrionics etc. So he didn't get abusive, verbally or physically with Allison but wasn't shy about telling colleagues that he "belted" his daughters.

 

[Brightbird]

Maybe we could do with a refresher course in narcissism now that he is testifying.

DSM-IV diagnostic criteria

A. A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
4. Requires excessive admiration.
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.

<modnsip>

http://behavenet.com/node/21653

 

[spratsmum]

You have to be really sure of someone's feelings if they had to think about it for a week,

 

[Cattail]

I couldn't disagree more... I'm seeing my sisters ex all over again. Except he didn't murder her, he emotionally abused her until she attempted suicide and then he went around saying this same rot about her mental health so that everyone felt sorry for him and thought he was a top bloke because he endured so much because of her depression!!

Different men - same mould!!

MOO

I'm sorry this happened to your sister.

Respectfully however I think you have misinterpreted my comments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LadyBird1]

Oh my gawd - he's crying in the witness box...! Is this regret at what he's done? Is it genuine feeling for Allison? Is it a cynical ploy order by the lawyers? Is he that good an actor? Is it the thought of jail? Is he innocent?

Nah, working up to the big crescendo ...... darling A must have plugged in my phone, bless her, and that Jezabel TMCH, volatile lethal obsession etc, etc must have had a run in with Allison whilst I was asleep, and and.....
The script, the script (been practicing this nearly two years)
Yes, TMcH must have done her in.... My beautiful wife. (Add a few more deflections here....)
Tried to protect her (TM from herself) lots of times, but females, a breed unknown .... As you have noticed in my talk up of myself, I am a totally fantastic bloke, that any woman should be honoured to share my company with....

 

[Brightbird]

Risk factors
By Mayo Clinic Staff
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ity-disorder/basics/risk-factors/con-20025568

Narcissistic personality disorder is rare. It affects more men than women. Narcissistic personality disorder often begins in early adulthood. Although some adolescents may seem to have traits of narcissism, this may simply be typical of the age and doesn't mean they'll go on to develop narcissistic personality disorder.

Although the cause of narcissistic personality disorder isn't known, some researchers think that extreme parenting behaviors, such as neglect or excessive indulgent praise, may be partially responsible.

Risk factors for narcissistic personality disorder may include:
&#8226;Parental disdain for fears and needs expressed during childhood
&#8226;Lack of affection and praise during childhood
&#8226;Neglect and emotional abuse in childhood
&#8226;Excessive praise and overindulgence
&#8226;Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
&#8226;Learning manipulative behaviors from parents

Children who learn from their parents that vulnerability is unacceptable may lose their ability to empathize with others' needs. They may also mask their emotional needs with grandiose, egotistical behavior that's calculated to make them seem emotionally "bulletproof."

 

[Liadan]

Thank you Possum for bringing it back to where we need to be.

You are soo right. Either Gerry deleted all the call records between him and TM (thereby deceiving Allison) when handing over the phone OR he handed the phone over to her (with all calls recorded on it)....as the honest man he is trying to make out ... And copped whatever came out of that. He cannot have it both ways......there will be more of this. But this is gold

Seriously there is no WAY GBC had the personality to be honest with his wife - he was used to and capable of deceiving her on every level, personal professional and healthwise. Can I just say Total -I whole heartedly agree! GBC would have deleted any incriminating evidence that was on his phone the moment it occurred - so it was completely safe for Allison to check out when he got home.

Lets not fool ourselves - it is the era of prepaids. Tell me he and TM didn't share a couple of 'trysts' on prepaids! Thank you Mr. Byrne!

 

[LadyBird1]

Oh my gawd - he's crying in the witness box...! Is this regret at what he's done? Is it genuine feeling for Allison? Is it a cynical ploy order by the lawyers? Is he that good an actor? Is it the thought of jail? Is he innocent?

Nah, working up to the big crescendo ...... "darling A must have plugged in my phone, bless her, and that Jezabel TMCH, volatile lethal obsession etc, etc must have had a run in with Allison whilst I was asleep, and and.....
The script, the script (been practicing this nearly two years)
Yes, TMcH must have done her in.... My beautiful wife. (Add a few more deflections here....)
Tried to protect her (TM from herself) lots of times, but females, you know, a breed unknown .... As you have noticed in my talk up of myself, I am a totally fantastic bloke, that any woman should be honoured to share my company with.... "
Haven't got to end of today's proceedings here yet, but can't help thinking about TMcH being thrown under the bus. Works of true narcissist.
Lots of drivel today. Suppose it takes a bit of time to outline one's wonderful fame, achievements and pedigree and explain what a wonderful all round husband he is.
Hope the jury can see this ........ for what he is.

 

[alioop]

Alioop: I asked this way back today & don't want/can't go back thru the thread ( I don't want to read all that #$%#% again ) .............are the prosecution able to call up witnesses at this stage to refute all the rubbish he is saying about Allison ( ie her parents, siblings & friends ).

Sorry again for a probably silly question :blushing:

( sorry if you had already replied )

Don't apologise. These threads are moving very fast. The prosecution have closed their case so cannot call new witnesses or recall previous witnesses unless they apply to the judge to reopen the case. They need to show exceptional circumstances to do this.

 

[Sor Juana]

Poor man, he must be so unlucky to have so many bad things happen in such a short space of time, not to mention his wife's depression, causing her to disappear and be found deceased.
Seriously, the jury hopefully are normal people.

We can certainly hope so, but there are 7 men there against only 5 women. Men might sympathise with GBC more.

 

[JCB]

Well what an unexpected day.

So Allison had a history of depression which the prosecution doesn't challenge but according to what Mr Byrne said Gerard will say about the night Allison died, they did not have an argument nor did he tell her that Toni would be at the conference. So they were doing their 15 min discussion and otherwise had a perfectly normal night. She seemed fine, they were making progress on their marriage problems.

Then Allison disappears that night and is found dead 10 days later and the defence suggest she committed suicide. He will explain he lied to Toni in his email about the 1 st July as he would never have left his wife. He will explain that he wasn't under as much financial pressure as the prosecution alleges.

If one accepts his version of events that night, and all the other witnesses who testified as to her state of mind at the time including the many people she saw that day, then the million dollar question is why would Allison commit suicide when she seemed fine. It is very difficult to believe and also given the evidence that she didn't jump off the bridge or overdose on Zoloft, not medically plausible.

I just don't think the jury will buy into his version as it does not in anyway gel with the manner and circumstances of her death.

The prosecution would have been loving today. They have lots of time to prepare for cross examination as Mr Byrne has kindly told them in detail what his evidence will be.

Seating will be at a premium on Monday.

Forgive me as I'm an infrequent visitor to these forums but I can only assume that your status as "Verified Attorney" indicates you are indeed a practicing lawyer. Whilst I respect your opinion as a legal practitioner, I have to disagree with much of the content in the above post.

You find it hard to believe that someone who seemed "fine" only hours before is/was capable of attempting self harm but yet we see it literally every single day. How often do you hear of a high profile suicide where friends and family express their dismay at the fact that the victim displayed no outward signs that they were contemplating ending their life? So often it happens after a person has seemingly overcome previous obstacles, I do not speak lightly of this as members of my own family have committed suicide but the facts remain that someone who appears outwardly happy is more than capable of ending their life. I would bet my last dollar that this will be thoroughly addressed by the forensic psychiatrist when they are called to give evidence.

You are correct in saying there is no physiological evidence to suggest that Allison jumped but is it also fair to say there is also no physiological evidence that she was the victim of a homicide? Of course this doesn't exclude either scenario, indeed barring an accident one of the scenarios did in fact occur but in my mind there is tremendous doubt, at least from a legal point of view.

While I'm sure the prosecution would have expected the defence to call certain witnesses after the rejection of their no case submission last night, I can't imagine that they would have been delighted at the prospect and when GBC elected to give evidence there would have been a collective groan throughout the prosecution team. Byrne QC is not an idiot, he knows the prosecution case is extremely weak (as evidenced by the submission yesterday afternoon, which I don't believe was without merit) and there is not a chance that he would risk the strong position of the defence if he wasn't confident that GBC and other defence witnesses could further strengthen their position.

As I've said previously, I have a strong opinion on this matter but purely from an unbiased perspective I believe the prosecution are up the creek without a paddle at this point