The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Jun 3, 2014.

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  1. Brightbird

    Brightbird Active Member

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    I don't think it's established that suicidal ideation is a side-effect of anti-depressants. Drug companies and insurers freak out over observations of these things in people who take them, so they are pretty much obliged to report it as a possibility even it's a rare event. There is a theory that some people feel more energised before the depression lifts, and that increases the risk for suicide. Also, they can't prove that the anti-depressants just aren't working and the suicide/ideation would have happened anyway. I've never heard that suicide is a side-effect of stopping them. But it stands to reason that if the depression returns then so might suicidal thoughts, especially if it returns quite dramatically. It's all still very speculative. Also not a health professional, but have studied clinical psychology post-grad and taken anti-depressants.
     


  2. catswhiskers

    catswhiskers Active Member

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    If he was being truthful (there's still a chance he couldn't resist hinting that there were others to promote his big man about town image), then I imagine there would have been a few middle aged women about town collectively gulping while waiting to see if he was about to drop them into his pile of you know what.
     
  3. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 42s

    Dr Schramm says maternal attachment would count against suicide risk. #badenclay

    Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 41s

    And he agrees that his remarks about suicide are general in nature, not specific to Allison #badenclay
     
  4. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    essa Scott ‏@TessaScott9 1m

    Dr Schramm says his comments are general only, not specifically about Allison #badenclay @9NewsBrisbane
     
  5. silverau

    silverau Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so,,he's effectively helping the prosecution! Everybody shoots a goal!

    (except for GBC....lol)
     
  6. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 45s

    Boyle says a mother's attachment can protect against suicide. Dr Schramm agrees, but says can never rule it out #badenclay

    Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 37s

    Maternal attachment "is something that goes against the argument that she (Allison) was suicidal" #badenclay
     
  7. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 54s

    Dr Schramm says if there was no triggering event, that would also count against risk of suicide. #badenclay

    Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 45s

    Dr Schramm agrees that a person making short and long terms plans would also be at lower risk of suicide. #badenclay
     
  8. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    12:56pm: Mr Byrne asked Dr Schramm to comment how often suicide was "unexpected".

    "It's not uncommon that suicide, unfortunately, is a surprise," Dr Schramm said.

    "It is also the case that very often, and unfortunately, suicide is a surprise and that even in retrospect it has been impossible to predict."

    12:53pm: Defence counsel Michael Byrne QC has asked Dr Schramm to comment on the nature of suicide.

    Dr Schramm said more than half of people who committed suicide did not leave a note.

    He recalled a well-respected study on suicide which he said found that "most people who took their lives did not leave a suicide note".

    "One-tenth to one-third do not leave notes," Dr Schramm said.

    Mr Baden-Clay has repeatedly pointed to his wife's history with depression to suggest she took her own life.

    Anyone needing support can contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Mensline on 1300 789 978.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-14-week-4-20140702-3b76w.html#ixzz36HBdDgsA
     
  9. Trooper

    Trooper Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Schramm has a theory about people who suicide out of deep unhappiness with their partner, but also leave that partner the beneficiary of their insurance policies...



    be a small book of references in that event..
     
  10. Freya1977

    Freya1977 Well-Known Member

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    He's big-noting himself again.

    Yes Gerard, you were a prize catch. "some of them"? So he cheated on his wife with more than the 3 discussed? Wow, what a charmer.
     
  11. Consider

    Consider New Member

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    suicidologist !

    I've been living under a rock
     
  12. DrWatson

    DrWatson Verified Thoracic and Vascular Surgeon

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    Come on Danny-boy:

    "Didn't you just testify that just because someone has a degree and is an expert, doesn't mean that they know anything?"
     
  13. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 45s

    People can make either short or long term plans - and still go on to commit suicide #badenclay
     
  14. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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  15. Lu-Lu

    Lu-Lu New Member

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    Dr Schramm says it is foolish to be completely confident that someone with a history of depression isn't going to take their life.#badenclay


    It is foolish to be completely confident that someone with an extremely dire financial situation, where their wife's life insurance policies are able to cover debts, that they wouldn't take their wife's life. :drumroll:
     
  16. Trooper

    Trooper Well-Known Member

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    my god, I hope that part that Gerald attested to that Alison had an STD check is correct..

    oddly, he didn't say that HE had had one done...
     
  17. Mountain Misst

    Mountain Misst FA in Aus.

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    :loveyou:

    Danny Boy(le)'s turning the defence's psychiatrist into a prosecution witness...
     
  18. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 54s

    Allison seemed to put her hand up when she needed to help - Dr Schramm #badenclay

    Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 44s

    He agrees that depression can worsen in pregnancy #badenclay
     
  19. Amee

    Amee Active Member

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    12:59pm: Dr Schramm has been cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Danny Boyle.

    He conceded a woman's "maternal instinct" would be considered a factor that would prevent suicide.

    He also conceded a person making "short and long term plans for the future" would also be considered a prevention factor.

    Mr Boyle asked Dr Schramm about suicide in people who had been proactive in seeking help for depression and anxiety.

    "Allison seemed to be a person who put her hand up and sought help," Dr Schramm said.

    Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-14-week-4-20140702-3b76w.html#ixzz36HCOyXAV
     
  20. itsthevibe

    itsthevibe Verified insider - Allison Baden-Clay case

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    Putting aside my views about GBC, listening to Schramm, he doesn't seem objective to me. Every question being asked by Danny Boyle to counter ideas of suicide is answered to bring things back to not ruling out suicide. There's a fine line between not being led, and leaning in one direction.
     
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