The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

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Her Honour

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he is a defence lawyers utter nightmare..

You said it, Trooper. I am firmly of the view that he had a real chance of walking had he not testified, for the most damning pieces of evidence came from his own mouth. He certainly came off as a Mastursomething.

Coming to TM 'unconditionally' was said to be an in-joke based on real estate parlance. Without direct and radical action, the 'subject to finance' clause was going to be a problem and it was going to be well nigh impossible to satisfy 'subject to pest inspection'.

There are so many things one could say about all that evidence. However, my abiding impression is one of distaste.

It is distasteful that all of Allison's most private, innermost thoughts and feelings have had to be aired.
It is distasteful that Allison's husband saw fit to describe, unflatteringly, her first tentative steps back into sexual activity.
It is distasteful that pictures of the family home, with all the poignancy of everyday items and evidence of a busy family life on display, are now on the public record.
It is distasteful that the poor innocent girls' old toys, clothes and day-to-day activities were dragged into it all.
It is distasteful that a Court had to hear the mechanics of extramarital affairs conducted in hotels, cinemas, offices, vacant homes and the boot of a 4WD.
It is distasteful that GBC's evidence was part boast, part whinge, part *advertiser censored* and entirely disrespectful. To everyone the subject of it and to those to whom it was addressed.

It's all too bloody sad.
 

UnfoldingTruth

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That's ok....keep the story for when we all meet at indooroopilly Maccas Cafe.....

Someone will defintely have to take care of tweets when that happens, so those that can't make it can keep updated. lol
 

BJsleuth

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I had a family member who committed suicide. He told people that he wanted to "just jump of a cliff". And he did. He drove to the nearest cliff and jumped. It was close to his home but he still drove. And they found his car there.
During the time he was missing his wife was in a fog of worry and did not participate in work or life in general. She was just in limbo. It was so awful.
GBC did not act like she did in the least. I know people react differently, but, come on. He was at work whilst his wife was still missing. His place was with his children.

He had employees who could have handled business for a few days, or even his parents.
 

itsthevibe

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I cannot quite get to a conclusion as to who's benefit that throwaway remark was directed to.. it couldn't be the jury, it couldn't be the judge, it couldn't be for his family, it couldn't be for the prosecutor.. it couldn't be for his defence lawyers..

it couldn't be for Toni.. it certainly couldn't be for his children's benefit,


there is only one person left who that could possibly be seen as interested and at ease with it, and that's Gerard... but even then.. its about as nutso a moment in the trial to eclipse all others..

I missed that throwaway remark. Was it something he said this morning?
 

Amee

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Mr Fuller: Was she working at Raine and Horne when you were there?

Mr Baden-Clay: Yes.

Mr Fuller: So you worked for them for a time, got your experience?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: And then set up right next door?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct.

Mr Fuller: Did you sleep with Michelle Hammond while you were still working for Raine and Horne or when you set up next door?

Mr Baden-Clay: It was after I had left Raine and Horne.

Mr Fuller: So you took their business and then had an affair with one of their employers?

Mr Baden-Clay: Correct. :facepalm:

http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/baden-clay-had-wife-and-mistress-same-conference/2305340/
 

louisepiglet

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Now this part is finished if gererd changes his plea do they go back to court straight away or do they have to wait till Monday? I doubt he will but just wondered :)

Is it possible that the prosecution can offer a plea deal now before the jury decides. Perhaps offer a reduced sentence?
 

Aliwonders

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It's so unpleasant. I am thinking that the whole phone thing is terrible. It's him saying that he had to hand over his phone when he got home. And couldn't have it when he went to bed. (In case he sent and received texts) He had his phone all day long!!! That just seems like a relationship of parent and child. Having their technology confiscated. She would have felt like she had 4 children. Just craved for him to stand up and be a man. Be her hero. But instead he was a weak lily livered man who had about as much control of his urges as the dogs in the street!!! I just wonder what Allisons testimony would have been. I wonder how many times she would have said "Seriously, Is that what he is saying?....pffft!!!!"
 

BJsleuth

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I cannot quite get to a conclusion as to who's benefit that throwaway remark was directed to.. it couldn't be the jury, it couldn't be the judge, it couldn't be for his family, it couldn't be for the prosecutor.. it couldn't be for his defence lawyers..

it couldn't be for Toni.. it certainly couldn't be for his children's benefit,


there is only one person left who that could possibly be seen as interested and at ease with it, and that's Gerard... but even then.. its about as nutso a moment in the trial to eclipse all others..

I think it was possibly an attempt to prove that TM meant nothing to him or as a "Ha, you just think you know it all!" Or maybe "See, I'm honest admitting that!"
 

Fuskier

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You said it, Trooper. I am firmly of the view that he had a real chance of walking had he not testified, for the most damning pieces of evidence came from his own mouth. He certainly came off as a Mastursomething.

Coming to TM 'unconditionally' was said to be an in-joke based on real estate parlance. Without direct and radical action, the 'subject to finance' clause was going to be a problem and it was going to be well nigh impossible to satisfy 'subject to pest inspection'.

There are so many things one could say about all that evidence. However, my abiding impression is one of distaste.

It is distasteful that all of Allison's most private, innermost thoughts and feelings have had to be aired.
It is distasteful that Allison's husband saw fit to describe, unflatteringly, her first tentative steps back into sexual activity.
It is distasteful that pictures of the family home, with all the poignancy of everyday items and evidence of a busy family life on display, are now on the public record.
It is distasteful that the poor innocent girls' old toys, clothes and day-to-day activities were dragged into it all.
It is distasteful that a Court had to hear the mechanics of extramarital affairs conducted in hotels, cinemas, offices, vacant homes and the boot of a 4WD.
It is distasteful that GBC's evidence was part boast, part whinge, part *advertiser censored* and entirely disrespectful. To everyone the subject of it and to those to whom it was addressed.

It's all too bloody sad.

Agree, poignantly said Her Honour.
 

DrWatson

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The longer I think about the case, and the way it was conducted by each side, I'm starting to get the feeling that perhaps, just maybe, the prosecution could be in front.
Theirs was the more coherent story, despite the evidence being entirely circumstantial.

It exposed GBC's character with all (?some) its flaws. It exposed him as a liar, a cheat, a manipulator, and someone with no scruples at all. It also exposed him as being under immense pressure from multiple angles - financial, marital, mistress piling it on, etc etc.

The defence, on the other hand, doggedly persisted with the notion of Allison's alleged depression, and the possibility of suicide. And not very convincingly. The suicide by Zoloft idea was basically zapped. She didn't drown. No explanation of an alternative scenario, particularly regarding how she got to Kholo, where her phone was, the pyjamas, etc etc.

OK - I know it is not up to the defence to prove what DID happen - they only have to provide sufficient doubt as to GBC's guilt. But apart from the suicide angle, I really couldn't see that they introduced ANY other reason to doubt his guilt.

Even the last couple of defence witnesses basically just added to the prosecution's case.

It will all come down to the closing addresses, and particularly the judge's summing up and how he slants it, or if he makes any recommendations.

Looks like not much work going to get done in the first half of next week either!
 

Brightbird

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That statement alone concerns me. Bully men say to their wives 'if you go you are not taking the children'. That is a power play because they know the mother wouldn't leave without her children.

Exactly what I thought!
 

alioop

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Just caught up for the day. The prosecution would have to be thrilled with the evidence of Dr Robertson as under cross examination he confirmed the prosecutions equivalent witness. They would also have to be very happy with the last witness as all he could really say was Allison had suffered from major depression at times which is not disputed. He quoted some statistics for suicide which don't have much meaning. He was at pains to say he never met Allison. In cross examination he agreed that various factors that did relate to Allison could reduce the risk of suicide.

So I think any doubt the jury may have about the possibility of Allison committing suicide by Zoloft ( which seems the only possibility suggested as a means of suicide), will be overcome by the evidence of these last 2 witnesses.

GBC's evidence, even his evidence in chief let alone the cross examination, has done him lots of harm I believe.

I think the defence would have done way less damage if they had not presented any evidence.

I have just voted on the ws poll for a guilty verdict.

Re the jury, they start deliberating together during court hours usually and are not likely to be locked up at any time. They just deliberate and go home each night then resume deliberations the next day. It may take days. The judge will direct them to go through all the evidence before they reach a decision. So they can't just go back to the jury room, and say let's have a show of hands and if there are 12 hands, say they have reached a decision. They have to take the proper time to examine the evidence. They have to do that to ensure their verdict is well thought out as they have a huge responsibility to make the right decision. This can't be rushed.
 

JK673

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The longer I think about the case, and the way it was conducted by each side, I'm starting to get the feeling that perhaps, just maybe, the prosecution could be in front.
Theirs was the more coherent story, despite the evidence being entirely circumstantial.

It exposed GBC's character with all (?some) its flaws. It exposed him as a liar, a cheat, a manipulator, and someone with no scruples at all. It also exposed him as being under immense pressure from multiple angles - financial, marital, mistress piling it on, etc etc.

The defence, on the other hand, doggedly persisted with the notion of Allison's alleged depression, and the possibility of suicide. And not very convincingly. The suicide by Zolft idea was basically zapped. She didn't drown. No explanation of an alternative scenario, particularly regarding how she got to Kholo, where her phone was, the pyjamas, etc etc.

OK - I know it is not up to the defence to prove what DID happen - they only have to provide sufficient doubt as to GBC's guilt. But apart from the suicide angle, I really couldn't see that they introduced ANY other reason to doubt his guilt.

Even the last couple of defence witnesses basically just added to the prosecution's case.

It will all come down to the closing addresses, and particularly the judge's summing up and how he slants it, or if he makes any recommendations.

Looks like not much work going to get done in the first half of next week either!

I am really glad I have been on holidays.... :)
 

royster

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Do you think by saying there were other women he was safety netting any other "little secrets" being thrown up at him. The defence might have been concerned with who had came forward. He was trying to throw a teaspoon of water on a bushfire so to speak.

Ps - Trooper I love seeing your posts come up and can't wait to read your insights!
 

Aliwonders

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This is really a lesson to people about having affairs!!! Imagine if these women had an idea of the mire such a moment of "pleasure" was going to drag them through!!! So YUCK!!! Yes Allison it was DIRTY!!!
 

sosocurious

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It's so unpleasant. I am thinking that the whole phone thing is terrible. It's him saying that he had to hand over his phone when he got home. And couldn't have it when he went to bed. (In case he sent and received texts) He had his phone all day long!!! That just seems like a relationship of parent and child. Having their technology confiscated. She would have felt like she had 4 children. Just craved for him to stand up and be a man. Be her hero. But instead he was a weak lily livered man who had about as much control of his urges as the dogs in the street!!! I just wonder what Allisons testimony would have been. I wonder how many times she would have said "Seriously, Is that what he is saying?....pffft!!!!"

While he did say in the initial police "interrogation" that Allison wanted them to have the app find my friend so as she could keep an eye on him. He admitted today that was a porky it was in fact his idea.

So I am not convinced that Allison asked that he hand his phone over when he came home each night.
 

Aliwonders

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While he did say in the initial police "interrogation" that Allison wanted them to have the app find my friend so as she could keep an eye on him. He admitted today that was a porky it was in fact his idea.

So I am not convinced that Allison asked that he hand his phone over when he came home each night.

Yes like I said..."How maybe times would Allison be saying "pffft!!!"
 
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