The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

Status
Not open for further replies.

itsthevibe

Verified insider - Allison Baden-Clay case
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
766
Reaction score
0
Hi Marly

I did not follow the Sica trial at all, I don't know anything about that one.

I hope GBC will be found guilty as I believe he is.

I am feeling more positive now than I was at the end of the prosecution case.


I have tried as best I can to see things as the jury might - impossible if not there of course.

I seem to get a lot of disagreement, but don't think it means I don't think he did a despicable thing just because I am trying to look at it fairly rather than just hang him to dry without weighing all of the evidence - it's ok for me to privately believe in his guilt on gut feel but I would not like to live in a country where justice was dealt without evidence or where being guilty of lying is judged as guilty of murder.

:)

I can see that you have done that. Possibly the disagreemnet is because there are a lot of people who have started off like you 2 years ago and been unsure, had an open mind etc but eventually after a very long time of digesting all of the information and having robust discussions here they have formed an opinion. I think a big part of it depends on how long you've been absorbing every little detail of the case.

I dont think anyone here disagrees with people getting a fair trial, and I dont think they are hanging him out to dry without weighing all of the evidence. There has been very little evidence at all in this trial that didnt come out in the first few months and at the bail and committal hearing, so people have had a long time to weigh up the information.

For me, there were certain things that were 'deal-breakers' which to my mind had no other explanation. And nothing has been disclosed since then to discount those things.
 

toe

New Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
253
Reaction score
0
Mr Baden-Clay Snr told the court of the moment he learnt Allison's body had been located.

"The police came to Gerard's office, I happened to be in Gerard's office at the time, and the police came to Gerard's office to tell him," he said.

"But we had actually heard before that because it was actually on the internet before the police got to his office.

"We were aware a body had been found under the Kohlo Creek Bridge."

http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/murder-trial-gerard-baden-clay-second-week/2290111/

Has if been confirmed if the Insurer was contacted prior to Allison's body being identified?
 

Trooper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
8,858
Reaction score
23,237
Isn't life mandatory now for murder. I may be wrong.

in QLD , I am not sure.. no time to look it up, but appeal in regard to his sentence would be along the lines of the length the judge goes to in directing as to how long he has to serve before he has a possibility of parole..

Most Murder appeals, at least in NSW and VIC are along those lines.. the murderer wants to have a definitive time , and of course, always less than the judge decrees in regard to the potential of applying for parole.. most are knocked back.. it very much depends on the circumstances..

Every convicted murderer has parole at the forefront of the mind...
 

itsthevibe

Verified insider - Allison Baden-Clay case
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
766
Reaction score
0
I really hope we are going to get a really great summary from the prosecution in closing that ties it all together.

Because the case is circumstantial I think they need to do two key things.

1) It'll be important to show how it's not just one piece of circumstantial evidence but many and how they all pile up together to make it convincing. Too many to just be a coincidence. Lay them all out, 1, 2, 3,. The blood in the new car with no injuries, the plants in her freshly done hair, the scratches on his face that look like fingernails, the 2nd persons DNA under her fingernails, the 'hidden' location she was found, how far from home she was found, that she was doing well with her depression, he had motive and opportunity, etc, Make it strong enough they don't need the murder weapon or a witness to him doing it.

2) Show by elimination how it can't have happened any other way. Show how there is no other alternative that could make sense. Not the mistress, not suicide, not a stranger. Cover them off. Not the mistress because (alibi?), not the stranger because no sexual abuse, nothing stolen, etc. Not an accident or suicide because she wouldn't have walked that far by accident nor without being seen, that she has no broken bones, no drowning or toxic level of drugs, not found hanging so how could she have killed herself intentionally or by accident? How did she get the plants in her hair, the blood in the car, why wouldn't her phone be at the house or in the same area as her body, etc.

This corresponds to what the jury will ask themselves. They'll ask if they have enough to say he's guilty. They'll also ask if they have enough to rule out the other options.

yes - well done! I certainly hope a thorough and unequivocal picture is painted.
 

Liadan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
1,198
Reaction score
832
And he owed money to all the people he phoned?
He phoned Dad, then these 3 , because he was excited, fulfilled and feeling in control. His Narcissistic supply was overloaded. Buzzing with success. Buzzing with excitement, that he pulled it off, and would be able to pay them all back soon, and still have enough left over to keep the business afloat, and Old Toni , would get her job back, and they would all live happily ever after.

Alison was dead, insurance money would be paid.
Business as usual, but the way it was run before Allison found out about the affair.


Wow Thank You - this is definitely GBC's MO - he always celebrates before the event is over - it is his undoing. His ego needs to be stroked so the first sign of something going right he is there to remind everyone!
 

Amee

Active Member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
6,197
Reaction score
4
Has if been confirmed if the Insurer was contacted prior to Allison's body being identified?

Her husband phoned Asteron Life Insurance on May 1, 2012, the day after Allison was found.

Mr Baden-Clay asked how he could make a claim on his wife's life insurance.


http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/baden-clay-wanted-hush-hush-over-marital-woes/2299880/




Body found in creek is Allison Baden-Clay

2 years ago May 01, 2012 6:00PM



A WOMAN'S body found on a creek bank in Brisbane's west has been identified as that of missing mum Allison Baden-Clay.

http://www.news.com.au/national/hop...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6frfkvr-1226343535002
 

LadyBird1

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
942
Reaction score
0
Respectfully snipped.

I find it strange that Mother and Daughter didnt engage in a conversation at this point. a mother would instinctively ask if everything is ok if a child wakes etc.

Yep. Me too. A mother would instinctively ask if everything is ok.
(This scene has been playing over and over in my mind a lot. Together with the thought that these children's recollections may have rearranged.)
Mother would not sit or lie there like a zombie and say nothing at all.
Whilst Father supposedly ironed away merrily. (Wearing pyjamas and shoes)
No. Something not right with that picture.
 

they'll get you

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
14,229
Reaction score
52,422
The same could be said of Max Sica trial. There was nothing to show that he killed the three Singh siblings. There were some footprints but nothing which proved beyond any doubt they belonged to Sica.

Yet he was found guilty.

That gives me hope. :praying:

.:grouphug::grouphug:
:grouphug: hugs for Mr and MrDickie:grouphug:
:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:
 

marlywings

Former Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
12,282
Reaction score
126
if it is any comfort, Appeals by a defendant are regularly dismissed.. I think the strike rate is about 10% are upheld. if that.. in certain sorts of convictions...it is very rare in Murder convictions for an Appeal to be allowed to proceed to court for re argument..

Gerard could also appeal his sentence.. ( which I believe will be a stiff one, and perhaps on a par with Sica's..) ... he might get legal aid for that somewhere down the track, but only if Legal Aid considers it as a possibility of success..

Absolutely agree Trooper. All of Sica's appeals to date have been knocked back. I'm not sure he'll ever get another go at it.

There really are very few who win an appeal. Woods is probably the only recent one.
 

possumheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
4,020
Reaction score
93
Her husband phoned Asteron Life Insurance on May 1, 2012, the day after Allison was found.

Mr Baden-Clay asked how he could make a claim on his wife's life insurance.


http://m.noosanews.com.au/news/baden-clay-wanted-hush-hush-over-marital-woes/2299880/




Body found in creek is Allison Baden-Clay

2 years ago May 01, 2012 6:00PM



A WOMAN'S body found on a creek bank in Brisbane's west has been identified as that of missing mum Allison Baden-Clay.

http://www.news.com.au/national/hop...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6frfkvr-1226343535002

So it just comes down to when he was told. Her jewellery was distinctive so DNA would be to confirm what would have been a no brainier. I was lead to believe he claimed before it was official, we don't know when he was told. Nige and he seem to have different recollections.
 

Consider

New Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
250
Reaction score
0
I would have thought mobiles, iPads, laptops, TV channels and newspapers were banned in their hotel rooms.

I would have thought contact with outside family etc was scheduled and monitored.

Entertainment would be selected books, magazines, cards, board games, movies on provided screens (not with TV access)

?

jmo
 

BJsleuth

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
0
I hope this jury interference by channel 9 doesn't mean a mistrial.
 

Amee

Active Member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
6,197
Reaction score
4
We heard the sim card was ruled out. Shame these gloves werent missing a fingertip....

Police had searched an area within a 500m radius from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found, he said, and had recovered items including a SIM card, gloves and a drink bottle.

However the area is frequented by the public and it was yet to be determined whether those items were connected to Mrs Baden-Clay.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-badenclay-20120501-1xwsw.html#ixzz36IgLkM00
 

BJsleuth

New Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
0
I would have thought mobiles, iPads, laptops, TV channels and newspapers were banned in their hotel rooms.

I would have thought contact with outside family etc was scheduled and monitored.

Entertainment would be selected books, magazines, cards, board games, movies on provided screens (not with TV access)

?

jmo

Are the Jury sequestered? They don't go home each day?
 

Trooper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
8,858
Reaction score
23,237
Ive just remembered... Carol Overington. . who has been doing the tweets from the court ,relayed into here by those specialist WebSleuthers with astounding reliability.. ..

she wrote a book about a murder.. a horrible thing, ..Jamie Ramage.. he murdered his wife.. but he used, as a defence , the concept of Provocation. His sentence so outraged the general public that the law of Provocation has been struck from the books since his case...

Wouldn't Gerard have loved to plead on those grounds.. Alison being provocatively depressed and compliant, and civil and non violent.. non abusive and forgiving..
 

tarjessi

Former Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
343
Reaction score
51
It's odd at times with the defence case...maybe they knew he would always take the stand and that would be his downfall. All they had as counter witnesses were two people who read statements who gave opinions that weren't all that valid given the strong case prepared by the prosecution. Allison wasn't suicidal and that has been made clear by her counsellors and even by GBC surprisingly. Well he was all over the place, she was happy, mostly up on one hand and then tried to make out she did nothing and was despondent on the couch most days on the other.

It's almost like the defence didn't even really try...or maybe it was just a hard case to defend. Go to Jail Gerard - go directly to jail - do not collect your dirty insurance money.
:jail::jail:
 

JCB

Active Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
224
Reaction score
47
The same could be said of Max Sica trial. There was nothing to show that he killed the three Singh siblings. There were some footprints but nothing which proved beyond any doubt they belonged to Sica.

Yet he was found guilty.

What may be the defining issue between the 2 cases, in the Sica case there was unquestionably a murder committed (3 in fact) and he was witnessed in the immediate area around the time of the murders. In this instance murder is far harder to establish and not a single witness has placed GBC anywhere near the location where Allison's body was found.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top