The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17

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Yep plant matter can be vacuumed up, blood can't

I've always thought that the police caught GBC and NBC out cleaning/vacuuming the car when they arrived so quickly. Then I wavered on this when it didn't come out in the evidence. However, when i think about it, even if there HAD been leaves matching the plants at home, what would that prove? they would have said that yes, the leaves blow inside and we use the vacuum cleaner often to clean them up. You can't prove that the leaves came from the car.
 
Have the jury been constantly away from their homes and family for all this time? If they live close by can they go home on weekends and are they all from Queensland?
I'm guessing they would be placed in a hotel close by and maybe have dinner together most nights. Oh to listen into their conversations!
I've always wanted to be on jury duty before but after this, I don't think so.
Just wondering.

They go home every night, jury service notices are sent out to people in a particular catchment area. If you live in Ipswich you won't be called up for Brisbane matters, you would attend cases at the Ipswich District Court.
 
I've always thought that the police caught GBC and NBC out cleaning/vacuuming the car when they arrived so quickly. Then I wavered on this when it didn't come out in the evidence. However, when i think about it, even if there HAD been leaves matching the plants at home, what would that prove? they would have said that yes, the leaves blow inside and we use the vacuum cleaner often to clean them up. You can't prove that the leaves came from the car.

I think he was giving the vacuum to the old *advertiser censored* in the pretence of cleaning a clients house for an open house.
 
RSBM. Wow. He's saying G could be lying only because he knows the scratches would implicate him in the murder of his wife; not because he actually did it.

In that case, supposing they had a furious argument and A scratched him and stormed off into the night, why didn't he give that explanation right from the outset? Surely an innocent person would be saying "yes, my wife scratched my face in the heat of the moment, but I love her and you've got to help me find her."

IMO the lie about the scratches is clear evidence of guilt.
Agree totally!
 
I spent a fews hours in court with "KiwiJayne" and "Whatif" (sorry I called you "couldbe" lol). Lovely to meet you today. I have pages and pages of notes but here are a few of my favourite statements from Todd today -
"He has manipulated T McH and kept it from his wife, parents etc. To this day, it's about him - his life, his business and his needs. It's not about Allison's mental health, depression or drug use. This is a man having to deal with the consequences of his own actions. The decision was made. He then calmly and rationally decided to cover it up. Was it highly unusual that he killed his wife? That's what he did and it was close, personal and effective. His life was not going where he wanted it to go. He had a double life. He had daily deceptions. He just wanted to wipe the slate clean."
 
When I injure myself I know all about it. If I stub my toe or get some other bump resulting in a bruise, I swear loud and long, I stop what I'm doing, I look at applying some relief because I am in pain. If I cut my finger preparing a meal, they can probably hear the scream next door. I'd venture that a low pain threshold is probably more common than your clearly very high pain threshold!

I have a pretty low pain threshold ironically, that's why this incident stuck in my mind. I barely felt the gate, was just the tiniest bit of steel sticking out and it nicked me like a razor. Didn't expect it to bleed at all, nevermind look like something from a horror movie.
 
Not to sound like a broken record but how often do notice injuries on yourself well after the fact? I don't know about you but I'm forever finding decent sized cuts and bruises and have no idea how I've done them. Likewise if you asked me what, if any injuries my partner may have had recently you'd be met with a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders (excluding really obvious things of course).

I remember once I was opening a gate to visit a friend and opened it across the top of my little toe and a little way down my foot, at the time I thought "I'm okay, just a little bit hurt" (gotta fit in with the crowd you know) but forgot about it by the time I got to the front door. Friend came out and she said something less polite than "what on earth did you do to your foot", looked down and it was literally covered in blood. Looked like I had tried to self amputate or something, washed the blood off and within a few minutes you would have had to have had a foot fetish to even realise I had a wound there.

No offense...but maybe you are not very sensitive. Others may be very much so.
 
Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 43s

A juror's chair has broken during Justice Byrne's summing up. #badenclay

That was all Gerard was trying to tell the jury member in his note! :wink:
"Your chair looks dodgy, I'm good with a screwdriver and I'm a nice guy, I'm here to help."
 
uh huh they sure are, very often those colours are worn together and I'm POSITIVIE that colour combination isn't of any signifciance!

Sso guess what colour top i chose to wear with my black suit today???? haha AND I have to walk past the Supreme Court building a few times today too ..... i hope no WS'ers are going to be out looking out for people in purple!!

Oh Brissie Lass, I am so sorry to learn of your obvious depression, wearing black and all. Should I call 000?
 
I think he was giving the vacuum to the old *advertiser censored* in the pretence of cleaning a clients house for an open house.

Don't you mean 'old modsnip'?
 
I think he was giving the vacuum to the old *advertiser censored* in the pretence of cleaning a clients house for an open house.

Yes dad was in it up to his bootstraps
 
No offense...but maybe you are not very sensitive. Others may be very much so.

No offence taken and you could well be right, wouldn't be the first time someone has called me insensitive!
 
Sure but tested for what plant matter, would have already been emptied washed ....bag tossed or cylinder washed.. Doesn't mean it wasn't used to clean dirt, leaves from car.

I would think in that case they would have reported it showed signs of being recently washed and had been emptied.

IMO


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Not to sound like a broken record but how often do notice injuries on yourself well after the fact? I don't know about you but I'm forever finding decent sized cuts and bruises and have no idea how I've done them. Likewise if you asked me what, if any injuries my partner may have had recently you'd be met with a blank stare and a shrug of the shoulders (excluding really obvious things of course).

I remember once I was opening a gate to visit a friend and opened it across the top of my little toe and a little way down my foot, at the time I thought "I'm okay, just a little bit hurt" (gotta fit in with the crowd you know) but forgot about it by the time I got to the front door. Friend came out and she said something less polite than "what on earth did you do to your foot", looked down and it was literally covered in blood. Looked like I had tried to self amputate or something, washed the blood off and within a few minutes you would have had to have had a foot fetish to even realise I had a wound there.
Again, Gerard sure is one unlucky guy to have had all of these things occur. You can't just look at the blood. If it were the ONLY thing then yeh, I'd probably not think so much of it. But, when looking at ALL the evidence, it paints a damning picture.
 
That was all Gerard was trying to tell the jury member in his note! :wink:
"Your chair looks dodgy, I'm good with a screwdriver and I'm a nice guy, I'm here to help."

Funny. Rofl. What a guy
 
That was all Gerard was trying to tell the jury member in his note! :wink:
"Your chair looks dodgy, I'm good with a screwdriver and I'm a nice guy, I'm here to help."

And then he attached his business card to the note...
 
Have the jury been constantly away from their homes and family for all this time? If they live close by can they go home on weekends and are they all from Queensland?
I'm guessing they would be placed in a hotel close by and maybe have dinner together most nights. Oh to listen into their conversations!
I've always wanted to be on jury duty before but after this, I don't think so.
Just wondering.
No they've just been in their normal homes :)
 
That was all Gerard was trying to tell the jury member in his note! :wink:
"Your chair looks dodgy, I'm good with a screwdriver and I'm a nice guy, I'm here to help."

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
Me again :p The man many of you love to hate!

Quickly before court once again resumes, I have 2 questions that I would invite opinion on.

1. Why was Kholo Creek chosen when there are numerous secluded and rugged areas closer to the BC residence which are accessed along much less heavily trafficed roads? I am not a local but I do know the area fairly well, there are numerous areas within perhaps a 10 minute radius where a body may never even be found. It is odd that he took the chance to travel perhaps twice that distance, along much busier roads.

2. The prosecution alleges that Allison was dragged down an embankment, placed on a ledge and rolled off. Why is this the case when, not 20 metres away, GBC could have stopped the car momentarily on the bridge, removed Allison from the boot and thrown her into the middle of the river which at the time was within an hour either side of high tide and so would have been likely to sweep Allison's body away into the Brisbane River as the tide ebbed, possibly never to be seen again. Not only would this seem (to me) to be the most obvious and efficient method, it would have taken mere seconds whereas physically taking her down the embankment, at least partially, must have taken some minutes (not to mention greatly increasing the chance of GBC dragging some evidence of being in that location back into the car with him). The only possible reason that I can come up with, and I feel like I'm grasping at straws in the context of the evidence, is that he wanted her found which would indicate obvious premeditation and scope for perhaps a harsher penalty than the 15 year minimum which (in my opinion only) would seem likely otherwise.

RSBM

Hi JCB :)

I'm playing catch up so no doubt you have had many responses to this already, all of which I'm interested to read very soon. My thoughts really relate to both of your questions - I think it is as simple as this (i.e. I don't think one should overthink it too much):

(a) As Fuller said (words to this effect), when you kill someone you want to get the body as far away from you as possible;
(b) IMO the murder wasn't planned for that evening so, while he may have thought about it in the past, he hadn't planned the finer details;
(c) After he realised Allison was dead, he knew he had to get her away, so his instincts took him there as he is familiar with the area through real estate and scout connections, it is the back road to Ipswich etc - at that time of night it would have been a 13 minute drive so not too far time wise, but far enough to be quite a way away from the murder scene.
(d) He wasn't thinking clearly and that is why he didn't choose more efficient methods such as those you suggested. He didn't have time to think about it too deeply and was likely too scared of being seen, to stop on the bridge.

I'm actually not too baffled about the choice of Kholo Creek. I just don't think he was thinking in terms of the insurance money at that time, rather, he just wanted the body gone as quickly as possible (which could possibly be the reason why the PT focused more on the affair than on the insurance aspect) - I think it is just where he ended up. I think luck played a huge part in that he wasn't seen and she wasn't found for 10 days :( Just my two cents!
 
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