The danger of a closed mind

[narlacat]

And evidence of JAR.

 

[sharpar]

You mean that Patsy did the staging? If not who? How was JonBenet killed and what was staged? At what point did John begin to go along with the plan?

Yes - I believe all the staging, the fake RN, the ligatures and garotte and the abuse with the paintbrush and the actual murder were all done by Patsy.
It might have started as an accident but failing to render aid made it murder.

John's part was going along with the story of what occurred . He didnt deny Patsy's version of events. He also may have also moved JB body during the time Det lost track of him into the room where she was discovered. Telling the lame story to Fleet of the basement window.

The autopsy tells us how she was murdered -- no mystery there - strangled and her skull bashed with blunt force trauma, preceeded by sexual abuse.

JMO

 

[UKGuy]

But still they could have been seen carrying something (=JB's body) to their car. Imo they initially considered dumping JB's body somewhere outside, but finally decided against it because they thought it to risky.

rashomon,

I beleive the garage can be accessed from inside the house, and they can state they were simply out searching for JonBenet?

I suspect the part the samsonite suitcase played was that of holding various items of forensic evidence, collected from where she was strangled and cleaned up, that were deemed incriminating for one reason or another and were to be disposed of, possibly at the same time as JonBenet's body was dumped outdoors.


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[Nuisanceposter]

I think the fact that the Rs call attention to the suitcase and make mention of it in DOI indicates that it wasn't used in the murder or cover up, or else they wouldn't call attention to it. I think it's placement is a weird coincidence and a dead end.

JR jumped on pontificating about that suitcase because it links into Smit's intruder theory. It's like how he says he remembers the window and goes downstairs, sees the suitcase, and then goes back up after closing the window but doesn't mention a single word of it to the police upstairs.

If that suitcase is in the wrong place and it was suspicious, why for the love of God would you not start yelling for Detective Arndt to come down and check it out? If that window was different than it should have been, why didn't he bring her down there immediately to see if it had been used as an entrance or exit by this intruder?

They did the same thing with the stun gun, once Smit said that's what he thought that was, and that also indicates to me that there was no stun gun used on JonBenet and those marks are from something else. Misdirection.

 

[rashomon]

Yes I think there was trace evidence to suggest she had been put in the suitcase. My memory isn't clear but I believe the suitcase had a blanket in it with evidence of Jonbenet on it.

Does anyone know exactly if trace evidence from JonBenet's body was found in the suitcase?

 

[Toltec]

Not only did John not mention the open window and the suitcase...he also failed to mention the "suspicious" van parked across the alleyway.

Let's not forget that Fleet White moved the suitcase. Where it ended up is anyone's guess.

The train room was checked by three people...French, White and John Ramsey.

And let's not forget the chair blocking the train room door. I cannot believe that all three men placed the chair back against the door after leaving the train room.

 

[Rupert]

If that suitcase is in the wrong place and it was suspicious, why for the love of God would you not start yelling for Detective Arndt to come down and check it out? If that window was different than it should have been, why didn't he bring her down there immediately to see if it had been used as an entrance or exit by this intruder?

Exactly. That is what drives me back into the RDI camp.

Two things he made a point about in the book, yet during the crisis he didn't alert Arndt at all. In the hopes of finding their daughter, anyone would have alerted the cops to a possible point of entry. He didn't tell Officer French as well.

 

[narlacat]

Does anyone know exactly if trace evidence from JonBenet's body was found in the suitcase?

There was a semen stained blanket and a Dr Suess book in the suitcase...and maybe one other thing which I am forgetting....
I didn't think there was any trace evidence from JonBenét but maybe I've missed something.

 

[Cranberry]

I think there was also a matching pillow sham from JAR's bed in the suitcase and weren't fibers from JAR's blanket found on JonBenet? maybe CBI?

 

[narlacat]

Just checked that Cranberry, you are right.
There was a sham, type of pillow cover in there yes.
A comforter with semen stains on it and the Dr Suess book.
And according to CBI fibers from the comforter were found on Jonbenéts genitals.

 

[UKGuy]

Just checked that Cranberry, you are right.
There was a sham, type of pillow cover in there yes.
A comforter with semen stains on it and the Dr Suess book.
And according to CBI fibers from the comforter were found on Jonbenéts genitals.

narlacat,

JAR's bedroom is one of the locations I pencilled in as either a temporary resting place for JonBenet's corpse as she was red-dressed and cleaned up.

Alternatively she was killed there following some illegal activity, and her corpse wrapped in one of the items found in the suitcase, then re-located, either way I suspect she was either layed out on a bed or under a bed, as her arms were extended above her head. Although I am not certain that her corpse and extended arms would not fit into the samsonite suitcase.

But rolling JonBenet's corpse into blankets, and filling the samonsite with various forensic evidence, preparing a ransom note all suggest the intention was to dump her corpse and case well away from the house.

Rather than snow being the factor that prevented this I think it was the intervention of one of the Ramseys that vetoed this!


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[narlacat]

Interesting UKGuy.
Which Ramsey, Patsy??
That would make the most sense.

 

[UKGuy]

Interesting UKGuy.
Which Ramsey, Patsy??
That would make the most sense.

Yes, it just depends on what you consider transpired prior to her death.

Also I think the Ramseys also had the option of reporting nothing and going on vacation, taking her corpse with them, then reporting JonBenet missing, but note how this would require Burke's explicit collusion, possibly a factor in this not occurring.


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[lilsister]

I really am not very well versed in this particular case but, I would not necessarily jump at the conclusion that the Ramsey's are the culprits. While, on the surface it looks like they probably did it, remember Elizabeth Smart and the accusations her parents went through only to find out that she was indeed abducted by a stranger. Maybe it was someone that the family knew or perhaps, her own brother--and that's where the cover up would begin, by the parents of course...but I'm still on the fence. Poor little baby JonBenet... That is really what this is all about

 

[sharpar]

I really am not very well versed in this particular case but, I would not necessarily jump at the conclusion that the Ramsey's are the culprits. While, on the surface it looks like they probably did it, remember Elizabeth Smart and the accusations her parents went through only to find out that she was indeed abducted by a stranger. Maybe it was someone that the family knew or perhaps, her own brother--and that's where the cover up would begin, by the parents of course...but I'm still on the fence. Poor little baby JonBenet... That is really what this is all about

Elizabeth was actually taken - JBR never left her own home. Smarts parents were cooperative and fothcoming with LE and media . R's lawyered up and tried to leave Boulder within an hour of the discovery by John of her corpse. Only person in the family having issues with the little girl was
her mother. Patsy Ramsey abused and murdered her own child and there
is no evidence to dispute it .

 

[narlacat]

I really am not very well versed in this particular case but, I would not necessarily jump at the conclusion that the Ramsey's are the culprits. While, on the surface it looks like they probably did it, remember Elizabeth Smart and the accusations her parents went through only to find out that she was indeed abducted by a stranger. Maybe it was someone that the family knew or perhaps, her own brother--and that's where the cover up would begin, by the parents of course...but I'm still on the fence. Poor little baby JonBenet... That is really what this is all about

Yeah, we know that lilsisiter, that is why we are all here after nearly 10 years.
You can't compare the Ramsey case with the Smart case.

 

[rashomon]

narlacat,

Alternatively she was killed there following some illegal activity, and her corpse wrapped in one of the items found in the suitcase, then re-located, either way I suspect she was either layed out on a bed or under a bed, as her arms were extended above her head. Although I am not certain that her corpse and extended arms would not fit into the samsonite suitcase.

But rolling JonBenet's corpse into blankets, and filling the samonsite with various forensic evidence, preparing a ransom note all suggest the intention was to dump her corpse and case well away from the house.

Rather than snow being the factor that prevented this I think it was the intervention of one of the Ramseys that vetoed this!

But for example, JB's favorite Barbie nightgown being placed next to her body in the basement would not fit into a scenario where parents had planned to dump her somewhere outside. How would you explain the nightgown?
Profilers have pointed out that parents who have killed their children often wrap up their bodies in blankets, or tuck them in in their beds because there is a psychological 'undoing' mechanism at work.

 

[narlacat]

<<JB's favorite Barbie nightgown being placed next to her body in the basement would not fit into a scenario where parents had planned to dump her somewhere outside. How would you explain the nightgown?>>


I get what you are saying rashomon, if they planned on dumping the body, they wouldn't have planned on leaving the nightgown next to it.
Patsy could not bring herself to put her daughter out into the elements besides the snow, the noisy garage door, the not fitting in the suitcase...
Some people think the nightgown had been there due to being stuck to the blanket which was thought to have come out of the dryer.

 

[sissi]

But for example, JB's favorite Barbie nightgown being placed next to her body in the basement would not fit into a scenario where parents had planned to dump her somewhere outside. How would you explain the nightgown?
Profilers have pointed out that parents who have killed their children often wrap up their bodies in blankets, or tuck them in in their beds because there is a psychological 'undoing' mechanism at work.

Not only was it NOT her favorite nightgown, it was not recognised by Patsy, and John thought it was the barbie doll's, life sized barbie, nightie.
The child had her hands tied above her head, a garotte around her neck, and a blanket under her that was pulled around, yet exposed her feet and hands. This is not what a profiler describes as the care a parent would take at all!

 

[narlacat]

Wrapping in a blanket is Sissi.
It showed care whichever way you look at it.
What intruder would take the time to find the blanket and wrap her 'papoose style' in it??
Why would someone from a foreign faction care so much to do that?
Of course Patsy wouldn't recognize it would she??
Her selective memory makes me want to scream.
She is a liar.