Discussion in 'Luka Rocco Magnotta AKA Eric Newman' started by JBean, Jun 20, 2012.
Discuss it here.
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Thanks for starting a thread on this topic. I'm guessing that with the recent murder of foreign student Lin Jun, and the associated media attention, some people want to see the convicted murderer murdered. Capital punishment is not a deterrent. I'm not in favour of an eye for an eye, but I am interested in the reasoning behind the philosophy.
Thank you to the mods for separating out this topic.
Although I'm not Canadian, my own country's* criminal justice system is very similar to Canada's because we both inherited our legal systems from Britain. The death penalty for Canada would strike me as a massive step backwards. Unlike many opponents of capital punishment, I'm not against it on the grounds of thinking that nobody deserves it. On the contrary, there are many people who I would be quite happy to see executed, and the Magnotta creature is one of them.
So while I fully understand why some people are expressing disappointment that he can't be tried in China, or that Canada has abolished the death penalty, my head has to rule my heart here. Hard cases make bad laws. There should be no knee jerk reaction to call for a step backwards on the basis of the worst of the worst. The Canadian courts can make mistakes just as much as those of any other country, and what happens when you end up with an innocent person facing execution?
IMO i think the death penalty is too much of an 'easy way out' if u ask me. if they kill him, then he dies....thats it. i would rather him suffer for many many years. lock him up in solitary confinement 24/7 with access to NOTHING!! 4 walls & a locked door with maybe a tiny hole to throw him just enough amount of food/water to get him by each day. guess he'd need a toilet as well, but thats it. personally, if i had my way, i'd see to it that some sort of physical torture would be provided daily as well (beat his ass periodically or something like that). the death penalty seems like its doing him a favor.
Canada doesn't even have LWOP, does it?
A first degree murder conviction results in a sentence such that the first opportunity to apply for parole is after 25 years. If the offender was young when convicted and made efforts to reform during the 25 years, there is a chance that the convict will be paroled. However, there is no guarantee that parole will be granted. It is conceivable that someone could be sentenced and never released from prison. There is also a provision in Canadian law such that a person is assigned the status of longterm offender or dangerous offender. That usually requires three offences of a similar, violent nature (the criteria can be found online). Dangerous offenders are never released.
Thanks for the info, otto.
After some googling, I see Paul Bernardo got LWOP. I can't believe his wife only got 12 years, though. Michael Rafferty and Colonel Russel Williams, for example, are two murderers who would be on death row, or severing LWOP in the US (I don't follow Canadian crime much, those are the only two I know of). Both of them will be eligeble for parole after 25 years.
Yves "Apache" Trudeau would certaintly been a DP case in the US. He committed 43 murders for various Canadian biker gangs, turned state's evidence and was allowed to plead to 43 manslaughters, and served 9 years. When he was released, he was given a new identity, and a few years later he raped a little boy, for which he was given 4 more years. He has since been released.
I think a lot of Americans feel that Canada is "soft on crime". Whether or not that's a fair assessment, I don't know, what I listed above are only a few cases. Personaly, I would feel better knowing any of the above murderers would never be free again, be it DP or LWOP.
BTW sorry I derailed this thread, it's about the death penalty, not LWOP. I'll thow my $0.02 in: as long as we're executing the right person, I have no problem with the DP.
it's state-sanctioned murder IMO
if it's abhorrent & illegal for the population to do it, why is it then ok for the government to do it?
I think Bernardo, Williams, Rafferty and a whole host of others deserve to die by firing squad but I'm not willing to give my government free reign to make that decision
especially when I consider the innocent people who have been convicted of murder - Guy Paul Morin is one such case
The government wouldn't decide, the people would. The same 12 people who convicted the killer would decide if they live or die.
If we trust our justice system then one must trust the proper decision is rendered in a trial.
I`m 100% in favour of the death penalty. Will it happen in my lifetime, probably not but my hope is that one day people will realize that housing and feeding these murderers who snuffed away the lives of innocent human beings does nothing to rehabilitate them and furthermore these same *** get out of prison to reoffend. (Amber Kirwan case).
Yes, let`s tear down the old prisons and build new ones with freshly painted walls so these monsters can be fed 3 times a day and live in their freshly painted cells with new facilities available to them. Afterall, it is the humane thing to do, right. All with my money!
I completely agree with every word...
Awww well look at this. A criminal`s dream come true.
In the meantime, the victim`s family still awaits for the rest of their loved ones remains to be found.
What a shame that we give criminals more rights than the victims. Actually, it`s an embarrassment!
The problem for me is that innocent people are sometimes convicted and sentenced to death. I would be I interested to hear your thoughts on this very real problem with the death penalty.
That's the problem. No system is perfect and juries sometimes get it wrong.
I can't find accurate statistics anywhere for Canada. I'll keep researching though.
Yes, there are/were wrongfully convicted people in prison but if we trust DNA and our justice system then if I were ever a juror in a trial with overwhelming evidence, I would definitely sentence the person to death.
In this case, there is an alleged video showing the accused killer taking an innocent human being and brutally murdering him and dismembering him, sending body parts across Canada and then fleeing the country.
If that is not enough to sentence him to death, I don't know what is.
I can say the same with Tori Stafford's murderers. One confessed, the other wanted a trial and was convicted. Sitting in prison is a joke for these monsters. They had no right to take a little girl's life. None whatsoever.
I brought up the Amber Kirwan case. The *** who murdered was convicted of murdering another man and let out on probation. Guess what? He wasn't rehabilitated. He murdered again. This time a beautiful young woman who had every right to be walking home from an outing with friends.
Get these creeps off our streets once and for all! 6 feet under would be perfect.
I won't even get into the ridiculous privacy laws in our country. I don't know if Mr. XYZ next door to me is a pedophile or not but yet his rights are protected but not mine or my childrens.
What is wrong with this picture?
I am happy our wonderful Mods created a space to discuss this topic. :tyou:
For me, I cannot agree with the death penalty because as a Buddhist, we are against killing "any sentient beings". I'm so upset for Lin Jun's family as they also are Buddhists as was Lin Jun himself.
That said, even if I wasn't Buddhist, I still could not agree with taking a life. I recall vividly the case of Toronto's Guy-Paul Morin. He was innocent and was imprisoned for life. Thankfully, his case was overturned and he is now free. LE latched onto him because he was "different"; he's a musician, a loner, he was in the high school glee club and musical clubs, etc. He was an easy choice. (Not unlike DLS in the Audrey Gleave case).
Once the horrific crime has been committed, what good does it do to take yet another life? Oh I know.....we have to feed them in prison, give them nice warm jammies in the winter, give them some 'rights', etc. but another death is not the answer. For me, that is.
Well, we do have the label of "dangerous offender" and these people NEVER get out of prison. I'm certain LRM will receive this label for his crime(s).
Plea deals are made in Canada, just like in the US. A plea deal was made with Karla Homolka in order to prosecute Paul Bernardo. At the time, without Karla's testimony, there was not enough evidence against Bernardo.
Rafferty will be eligible for parole after 25 years and there's a good chance he'll get it. He murdered one person. Although it's a high profile case, it's still nothing different from other first degree murder cases. At the same time that the Rafferty trial was going on, there was another case in Ontario where another young girl was murdered by a young man. That case received no coverage, most likely because the victim was a new immigrant and a couple of years older than 9. Unless Rafferty commits more crimes in prison, he'll probably be released in 25 years. This case cannot be grouped with people like Russell Williams.
Russell Williams will probably not be released, at least not as long as anyone remembers his crimes and victims. He is a very dangerous, cunning man that will most likely victimize people again if he is released.
If making a plea deal in Canada or the US means that Canada or the US is soft on crime, then both countries are soft on crime. A significant difference between US and Canadian (and European) legal philosophy is that Canada and Europe believe that criminals can be rehabilitated and gives people a chance at rehabilitation. It seems that in the US people have thrown their hands in the air and decided that there's nothing to be done, so criminals should either be executed or caged for the remainder of their lives. I think I like the philosophy of hoping for change better than throwing ones hands in the air and claiming that there's nothing to be done.
Here we go....an inside look at our prison system. Karla Homolka in 2000. Posing for the camera at Joliette Prison. Flowers and childrens toys. She looks so miserable, doesn't she?
And people wonder why I'm for the death penalty........:maddening: