The dogs - did they track Hailey to a motel?

Discussion in 'Hailey Dunn' started by Kimster, Feb 7, 2011.

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  1. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    What was the motel name and how far was it from Hailey's house?

    Do you think this is an important clue?
     
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  3. tehcloser

    tehcloser New Member

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    Nope, they didn't track her. They "took" the dogs to 6 motels that day and they "hit" at the one 4 or 5 blocks from her house. I guess a link would be good eh?

    On Friday, bloodhounds were taken to the six motels in Colorado City. At Western Suites, which is located at 2233 Vine Street and is adjacent to Interstate 20 and near the Dunn home, the dogs picked up on Dunn’s scent in the parking lot, City Manager Pete Kampfer said Tuesday night.

    The scent led to a door of a ground-floor room at the two-level motel that opened in July, he said, but there the trail stopped. A search of the 24 suites produced no other evidence, he said.

    http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/04/hed-help-herey-hed-help-herey/?print=1
     
  4. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    I thought I heard BD say on NG that they went from her neighborhood and tracked to the motel? I'll have to look that up another time though. It's past my bedtime.

    :eek:fftobed:

    :ufo:
     
  5. tehcloser

    tehcloser New Member

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    You are remembering right. But LE cleared that one up pretty quick. Here it is:


    GRACE: I want to go back to Billie Dunn. Billie, you`re Hailey`s mother, and tonight you are making a public plea for her return. What can you tell me about these bloodhounds? We are learning police have brought bloodhounds out to your home, and they went from your home to a local motel?

    BILLIE DUNN: Yes. I kind of don`t know what to say now since I heard police were being tight-lipped about it, but I`ll go ahead and say they started toward her dad`s house. They didn`t go there. They stopped, turned around, went to her friend`s, went to that motel, where they told me they`re reviewing video surveillance. There was video surveillance there. But didn`t have much luck there.

    GRACE: And what motel is it, Billie? What is the name of the motel?

    BILLIE DUNN: Western Inn or Western Suites. It`s a new motel close to my house.

    GRACE: How far away is it?

    BILLIE DUNN: Three to four blocks.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/04/ng.01.html
     
  6. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    The tracking dogs being run arround 6 hotels sounds completely crazy. I have never heard of case where dogs where used at randomly selected locations for no reason. Then to have a hit on one of the random hotels adds more questions. Plus the one they hit on was 4 to 5 blocks away.

    It seems more logical to me to believe they did track her from her home as finding Hailey is why they brought the dogs into the search in the first place.


    Either someone saw here near a hotel and LE didnt know which one or she was tracked to one. Or they suspected someone with connections to multiple hotels.

    I dont know which but I do know the whole dog thing is HINKY. There has to be something behind this because training ,and protocol and skill would prevent the random scouring of 6 hotel without a reason. IMO.
     
  7. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    The address the the western suits hotel is 2233 Vine St, Colorado City, TX 79512. The hotel is very new.

    It is a 10 minute walk without cutting though yards , from Hailey home to the Hotel. In a car it is a a five minute drive.

    I also want to locate the other five hotels. If anyone finds information the would disclose the location. How many hotels does CC have?
     

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  8. Caligram

    Caligram New Member

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    I wonder who the person was that "suggested" that Hailey's scent might be found near that motel a few blocks from her home. It seems like the locals knew that kids used that location for free wifi signals. I wonder why BD would have brought up the issue of the scent dogs. Trying to create a new trail maybe? Linking Hailey and a motel suggests something happening that was less innocent than getting a free internet signal. IMO, it is a cheap trick for BD to use as she tries to create diversions away from (Shawn).
    It is my understanding that there are different measurements of scent trails using different dogs, and that this may have been an old scent even if it was HD's. There did not appear to be anything useful in the tracking by those dogs, according to LE. I am sure that the efforts of LE will be challenged again and again, to no good purpose except to shift the focus away from SA, and by association, from BD.

    IMO
     
  9. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    The free WiFi was speculated on. I have not seen a local mention anything about that being a fact. Even taking that into account Hailey's I pod was in her room.

    It is my understanding that tracking dogs ,track the freshest scent and are trained to do so.

    Hailey's route the day before on sunday would have been the route tracked had that tracking dog not been tracking a newer scent than that.

    That route would have been from her fathers house to the dollar store. Or to her home. Back and forth between Billies.
    It was not the route that was reported to be tracked from the dogs.
     
  10. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    What you are saying is true, IF the dogs were trained that way. But If I recall correctly, these dogs were from the local prison. They just follow the scent, period. They are not trained to differentiate between the various levels.They are tracking the escaped convict, who has no 'recent to most recent' scent trail. That is what I remember from SarX's explanation. And the dogs were brought out on the 4th day, which is beyond their normal capabilities. [ if they were prison dogs that is.]

    [ BRB--I will go find the links]
     
  11. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    http://www.ccitynews.net/news/story/2011/01/search-dunn-intensifies-helicopter-search

    By Carol Parsons
Posted January 6, 2011 - 5:28pm

    Kampfer also clarified the reports about dogs tracking Hailey to the Western Suites motel.



    “The dogs did not trail Hailey’s scent to the motels,” He said. “They took the dogs to different places trying to pick up the scent.* Motels are good places to start. The dogs did get a hit.”



    Kampfer went on to explain that* investigators cannot determine when a trail has been made. 
Hailey could have been there a couple of days before and the dogs would still have picked up her scent or someone else wearing an article of Hailey’s clothing would have the same results.

    
“Bloodhounds are scent specific,” Warden Matt Kennolly said. “The only thing we need is a scent article for the person we’re looking for. The dog will track only that scent.”


    “Our dogs can run 48-72 hours, but I have seen scent dogs up to 7-8 days. There are so many environmental factors that come into play,” Kennelly said.

No possible lead has been overlooked as investigators have checked almost every surveillance camera in town, according to Kampfer. “It’s amazing what they have checked.* They’ve done a good job.”


     
  12. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    There is no fact to the assumption on how these dog are or were trained. Unless the paper work on the dogs is outted then the post you made above is not based in factual information.

    If I am to believe LE brought out dog past the time of their effective time line and randomly circled them arround 6 hotels. Then I would have to question all the investigative work on the case. I am not ready to do anything than question how informed Kampfer is and where Hailey could be.

    The article you linked in your post above this does not present information that represents what the quoted post stated.
     
  13. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    By Tuesday, HLN’s Grace featured the case, though the coverage was called “sensational” by City Manager Peter Kampfer.

    Widely-distributed reports that dogs had traced Hailey Dunn’s scent to a Colorado City hotel Dec. 31 were diminished by Kampfer, who called them “inaccurate” and the scents attributable to “any number of things.”

    In a further example of the confusion that has swirled around the investigation,


    http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/08/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/?print=1
     
  14. hollyblue

    hollyblue It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen t

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    Only 3 in CC...others in Snyder. OMG!....one is named Relax Inn....(poem)

    hotels, motels, in colorado city, tx - Google Maps
     
  15. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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    It wasn't just BD who said the dogs tracked to the hotel. The local news reported it that way as well.

    This video has some shots of the hotel in the background at about 1:16: Western Suites.

     
  16. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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    Here are some screenshots for people who can't watch the video. As you can see the landscape is bare of any vegetation and that's why it's strange that no one apparently saw her (if she was ever there).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sign Beside Freeway - They showed a truck roaring past.
    [​IMG]

    Same sign with hotel in distance:
    [​IMG]

     
  17. K9Snoop

    K9Snoop K9 Sar & Police SAR management

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    From the info I've seen none of the dogs used trailed from the residence to any of the hotels. I've seen one report where "dogs went to a hotel by I-10" but it didn’t say the dogs went from the residence to this location as a solid track. I also saw one where the dogs were taken to the area hotels.

    Prison dogs are trained more to institutional scent then specific human scent. I've worked with some prison hounds that when you gave them an item that contained the institutional scent with the human scent worked like a house on fire. But give them a "pure" human scent article and they did less well. Normally, they fizzled out at about the quarter-mile mark or at the end of a city block even when it’s known the subject left on foot. Most had trouble just getting out of the front yard. The ones of my experience are not trained for car trails (following subject scent coming from a motor vehicle). This is because once a subject gets into a car the speed at which they can travel far exceeds the speed of a on-foot team and they will never, ever catch up so from LE’s point of view, what’s the point? If the guy’s got a 4 hour head start that is later compounded by being in a vehicle there is no way that a dog working at 15-20 minute miles is ever going to catch up with a car traveling 50 mph. It’s also very dangerous for the trailing team due to the other vehicles also using the roadway even when you have marked units trying to protect the team.

    When using trailing dogs (or any scenting dog) the answer is not always black and white but depends heavily on the skills of the individual team. What one team can do, another team may be unable. Not all dogs are created equal but must be judged as individuals. Handlers, too. And sometimes the handler doesn’t do the right job framing out to the dog what they want them to answer so the dog is confused about what you want them to do. Anyone who works a trailing dog never, ever stops learning.

    Taking a dog to locations is a scent tactic under the broadly labeled category of “scent matching”. Scent matching is used to tie specific human scent to an object, location, or action. Here it can be a bit tricky and there's a few things handlers have to keep in mind. 1) has the subject been in that location before, recently, or within the scent timeframe the dog is trained for 2) has a close member of the family or significant other been at the location. If there is no reason for the subject to have been at that location then the dog, when taken to that location, should have absolutely no reason to indicate a matching scent in that area. The danger is that family/significant other can have that person’s scent on their clothing or vehicle due to their living in the same household and living together. This residual scent can be enough to trigger the dogs and give a positive indication even though the subject has not been there.

    The other tricky half is that when you "drop" a dog to check for scent, you are dropping them into that area. They didn't work themselves there from the PLS. So you are placing them into the unknown. The dog CANNOT tell you “Oops, this is X number of days/hours old while that stuff back at the house was much fresher or only this old.” Now based on the dog/handler’s training and experience, the handler can sometimes draw a conclusion that the odor is “fresher” or “older” based on canine working behavior. If the scent is present and at a level the dog can detect then you will get a positive indication and sometimes the handler can have a good idea on the age but the handler has to be able to read their dog.

    So by dropping dogs at locations where, for a variety of reasons, you believe the subject may have gone to then you do it because it can find you a loose thread that ends up as a valid lead.

    Now scent age. If I'm on a trail and that person loops back over their same track, I expect my dog to abandon the older odor and cross over to the fresher track. The same can happen if they airscent fresher odor on the wind versus what they have on the ground. The dog will raise their head and work like an airscent dog following that odor to the scent source. (disclaimer: this is NOT TRUE for dogs trained as a tracking or non-scent specific patrol dog)
     
  18. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    You did hear her say that, but according to Kempfer, that is NOT what happened.


    http://www.ccitynews.net/news/story/2011/01/search-dunn-intensifies-helicopter-search

    
Posted January 6, 2011 - 5:28pm

    Kampfer also clarified the reports about dogs tracking Hailey to the Western Suites motel.

“The dogs did not trail Hailey’s scent to the motels,” He said. “They took the dogs to different places trying to pick up the scent.* Motels are good places to start. The dogs did get a hit.”

Kampfer went on to explain that* investigators cannot determine when a trail has been made. 
Hailey could have been there a couple of days before and the dogs would still have picked up her scent or someone else wearing an article of Hailey’s clothing would have the same results.
     
  19. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    BBM
    So the dogs hit on her scent. Hailey's.
    If her jacket was there or whoever had her scent on them was there in the last few days etc..etc.. Prior to that hit. LE should be able to find that out.

    I dont know why this is not important. If Hailey was there when ever they should find out exactly when that was. If someone who knows Hailey and had her jacket on they should know why and when. If someone had her scent on their person ,they should find out who and why. IMO .


    There was a hit. Now they need to find out WHY. if it turns out not to be related fine. I want more answers than was offered. Investigate why the dogs got the hit. It appears other then looking for Hailey on 36 hours of tape they dismissed it.
     
  20. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I agree. It would be great to know why the dogs got a hit on her scent. It could be very important. But LE did scour the surveillance tapes, and I think they looked at more than just 36 hours, that is just what they passed on to Clint. And there was no sign of her or of anyone suspicious or of any of her friends in the tapes. So what we do know is that she did not appear to visit that motel in the crucial time period of her disappearance.

    And it is also very very important to dispel the rumor that Billie herself started when she described the dogs as starting at her home, running towards Clint's, tracking a scent straight to MB's, and then veering off to the motel. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. Why was she so intent upon creating that false image of that event"?
     
  21. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent Active Member

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    Do you happen to have the link about the 36 hours of tape? I have seen it and searched for it but after reading it I cannot find it. It was 36 hours right?
     
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