The Dogs & the Scent Trails

Discussion in 'Lindsey Baum' started by SeriouslySearching, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Active Member

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    We have been discussing the outcome of the tracking dogs and if there have been hits on Lindsey's scent from the scene or other places. This thread is to report and discuss any findings from the dogs.

    Tracking dogs, Bloodhounds, Search and Rescue dogs, or by any other name are trained to follow the scent from the person either by an article last worn, bedding, or other means used to give the dogs their target scent. We also need to include cadaver dogs here. They are the most specially trained dogs who can detect human decomposition on land or in the water.

    One thing we have to remember is the dog is only as good as the training and handler in any case.

    Let's "sniff" this out about the question where the dogs tracked her or did not hit so we can get to the possibilities surrounding Lindsey's disappearance. We don't have much except tid bits from LE and the media to go on, but if we keep "track" of them all...maybe we can find something there. :beagle::detective:
     
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  3. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    Thanks for the OP SS ;}

    A poster told us there were 3 important things in successful tracking by a sniffer dog. Do you remember what they were?

    The last one was one I had never heard before, that a dog need an uninterupted trail to follow to sniff the scent. Hope that is the right word. For the life of me I'm trying to remember who posted that! Maybe Elphere??? Norm???
     
  4. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Active Member

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    I found this to be an informative site on SAR/Cadaver dogs:

    http://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog.htm/printable

    In response to your question, Scandi...I did find the 3 things needed! (See red print below):

    SAR Specialties

    Not all SAR dogs perform the same type of search. Some dogs are tracking (or trailing) dogs, and others are air-scent (or area-search) dogs. The types overlap, but the distinction between the two guides are the training process and how the dog participates in missions. Tracking dogs work with their nose to the ground. They follow a trail of human scent -- typically heavy skin particles that fall quickly to the ground or onto bushes -- through any type of terrain. These dogs are not searching, they're following: Tracking dogs need a "last seen" starting point, an article with the person's scent on it to work from and an uncontaminated trail.

    ~Snip~

    Air-scent dogs, on the other hand, work with their nose in the air. They pick up human scent anywhere in the vicinity -- they don't need a "last seen" starting point, an article to work from or a scent trail, and time is not an issue. Whereas tracking dogs follow a particular scent trail, air-scent dogs pick up a scent carried in air currents and seek out its origin -- the point of greatest concentration.

    ~Snip~

    Cadaver and water-search dogs are the only types specifically trained to scent for human remains, although all SAR dogs will alert to remains if they find them. In major disasters like the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the collapse of the World Trade Center in 2001 and the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan, air-scent dogs in all specialty areas assisted in the search for survivors. This actually led to problems for some of the dogs, because SAR dogs trained to find living people can become discouraged when they find only dead bodies. The dogs understand that live finds are preferable, partly due to their training, partly due to the reactions of their handler and partly because live people can usually give some form of feedback -- and the dogs crave feedback. At Oklahoma City and Ground Zero, handlers and firefighters hid in the rubble to give the dogs a living person to find so they could feel successful and get their reward.

    http://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog.htm/printable BBM

    Awwww. I didn't know that about the OKC Bombing SAR dogs. I learn something new and wonderful all the time about those firemen, handlers, and searchers. Bless them for the job they do.
     
  5. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Active Member

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    It is my understanding there was no scent trail. They did make the comment her scent was "fading" at the park and other places she frequented. This tells me they did pick up her scent in those areas, but to my knowledge...the dogs cannot tell them when she left that scent. Hmmm...I wonder if that could be the last place she was really located? :confused:

    ETA: I could be mistaken on no scent trail at all near where she was last seen.
     
  6. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    Thanks so much for that info SS. You are a [​IMG] Now it won't get lost and posters ask questions about these points all the time. There is a lot of valuable info there.

    Interesting about the Ground Zero and OKC SAR dogs. It wasn't till about a month or so ago I learned that the dogs used at Ground Zero were trained in sniffing both live and dead bodies. That is quite unusual from what I had learned before. I had heard about Keela the blood dog from England who is able to sniff blood either from a corpse or a live person and differentiate between the two. They say she is one of a kind, right up there with the very best. Her partner Eddie has been correct in 200 searches for Human Recovery. Also one of the most remarkable in the world. They both had an exceptional trainer and handler. xox
     
  7. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Active Member

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    Now we need to find all the articles and videos about the dogs on Lindsey's case and where they tracked her scent (or did not). ;)

    It will be nice to collect useful information on the SAR dogs here. We run into this on every case. I will try to go through and find the information we gathered from our own WSers who were dog trainers. I believe the indepth discussions were on the Jennifer Kesse case.
     
  8. SeriouslySearching

    SeriouslySearching Active Member

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    This is from a poster on the Theories about Haleigh thread:

     
  9. scandi

    scandi New Member

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  10. Normcar21

    Normcar21 New Member

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    SS indicates:
    They did make the comment her scent was "fading" at the park and other places she frequented.

    That comment really puzzles me...what do they mean by the scent was fading? I would appreciate any examination or explanation relative to that phrase. How do they know it was fading? Did the dogs begin to scatter? Were the dogs seeming to focus on a trail and then stop? Did one dog learn english and speak to the trainer?

    I can't understand between the idea that the scent seemed to stop or the scent "faded." I'd just like some chat about what you think the phrase meant. Clearly some scent was detected, and the fact that they returned with more dogs recently seems to indicate that the idea of "scent" remains a topic of interest.

    I've heard chat about "why are these people coming out in the heat of the day, with sweating dogs, to again try to pick up some scent"? Are they focusing on cadaver dogs and came out when they did because they thought the "heat" would be an advantage, thus pointing to the idea that they are looking for a body?

    I personally think the most important focus should be on initial scent investigations immediately following LB's disappearance, and that's why I'd personally like some input on what is meant by...

    scent fading

    How does a scent "fade"? Either it's there or it isn't? IMO
     
  11. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    I was talking to my mom about this today as my son had gone over to the other side of the garage to cut down blackberries - the area where my former tenants left deer carcasses and it still smells after 1 and a half YEARS. When its hot - it is WAY WORSE and the smell today made me ill! I told Mom and discussed the issue we've been talking about and she reminded me that there is still fur and hide in the area as it is part of the ground over there. (It's a real gross mess that is taking forever to deal with, lemme tell you!)

    So, in answer to your question, I think the scent fading could be if there wasn't anything left there. If it is a trail left where Lindsey was walking, the scent would fade, I would think. If it is an area where there is still something left behind, it would not.
     
  12. TamgMit

    TamgMit New Member

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  13. TamgMit

    TamgMit New Member

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  14. Normcar21

    Normcar21 New Member

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    Thanks Kim, my question is in a few days time why would a scent seem to be fading by the dogs? Especially on Maple where clearly LB was walking. I think I understand where you are coming from but from what I have read dogs can pick up a scent that is much much older than a day or two. The fact that dogs could not pick up LB's scent in areas where she clearly walked day in and day out completely mystifies me. All of these statements by experts that a scent can remain, not only for days, but months, and some dogs can even track people in vehicles escaping on highways, simply makes my head spin.

    Why could Lindsey's scent "fade" when they are searching common areas where she spent time on a daily basis?

    Can scents be hidden if someone who knows something about scents uses something like a pepper spray? Are there ways of hiding scent, if the perp has knowledge of such things (i.e. LE)?

    Anyway, thanks for your input, it helps
     
  15. Normcar21

    Normcar21 New Member

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