'The doors'

Discussion in 'Oscar Pistorius' started by Harmony 2, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/14/the-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-10

    [​IMG]
    link


    The photo below shows the projectile shots in the toilet door...

    https://twitter.com/SHOOT_HiRezLife/status/444344152734445569/photo/1

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/14/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2014/03/13/graphic-evidence-on-tv-screens-at-oscar-pistorius-trial

    These and many other questions are brought to light:

    *Does the difference in the evidence photos of the front door compromise the investigation?
    *What is the sequence of the projectile shots on the toilet door?
    *When and how was the master bedroom door damaged and is the suspected projectile hole relevant to the night of the killing?
    *Why was the bedroom door locked that night?
    *Will the storage of the bathroom door compromise it's forensic value?


    There has been lots of testimony about different doors in the Pistorius home… discuss the evidence pertaining to “the doors” on this thread…
     
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  3. steveml

    steveml New Member

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    Although the bathroom door was stored in the commander's office, as long as the covering bag was sealed I wouldn't think that this should compromise the forensic analysis. You are already accepting an element of trust regarding evidence as soon as the police remove it from the crime scene. Unless you can show tampering, the only complaint can be regarding procedure or the length of time taken to get the door to forensics. The actual quality of forensic analysis would not be diminished.
     
  4. MURDERER_SERVANT

    MURDERER_SERVANT Member

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    james83
    If i can go back to the fact that Oscar was allegedly on his stumps and not as he claimed on his prothesis when he used the bat to break down the toilet door.
    Can anyone think of a reason why he would lie about this?, i can't figure out a reason why he would lie about it, doesn't seem to change much.

    Awaiting what the ballistic will say...
    Maybe he was on his prothesis while shooting thru the little broken wood pieces on the right side of the door which he broke with the bat and after seeing that she was dead /about to die he just made up the intruder story , and ran and put off his legs as if he was in bed and of course vulnerable and came back and exceeded to the bashing the door with tha bat and rescue mode, pulled her out of the bathroom and then put on his legs...

    image.jpg
     
  5. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    If the sealing tape on the house was disturbed - indicating that someone entered while it was supposed to be sealed - then there's an argument that none of the crime scene evidence can be trusted.

    For example - if there's no explanation for the bent tub plate and hole through the bedroom door, then there's no way to rule out vandalism or evidence tampering by the police.
     
  6. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    The fact that there was a police shoe print on it kind of indicates that it was not adequately stored in a protective and secure location - not being kept in the evidence room with the register, there's no way to know who accessed the door and what they did to it.
     
  7. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    I posted this in the Photograph thread yesterday. It might be helpful to have it here, too.

    The Bathroom Door

    Evidence: The bullet holes and shattered wood where Pistorius struck the door are clearly seen here.

    Clues: Based on the angle and height of the four bullet holes seen here, Pistorius fired his gun on his stumps, according to forensic analyst Colonel Johannes Vermeulen.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hotographs-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2vrt9C81m


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-court-shown-photographs-Reeva-Steenkamp.html
     

    Attached Files:

  8. james83

    james83 New Member

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    Something i've never considered before, i wonder if they were arguing, she locked herself in the toilet and he was trying to shoot at the lock, from what we've heard of his history it's the kind of dumb thing he would do.
     
  9. james83

    james83 New Member

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    My biggest question of all relates to this

    "A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive".

    So she was alive and clearly in a life threatening condition but the first person he calls is Johan Stander?, why would he not call for medical help straight away, doesn't ring true.
     
  10. Schuby

    Schuby Under the thumb of The Man

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    I thought about that too but if that were the case, shots would be clustered around the lock and likely aimed sharply downward.
     
  11. Schuby

    Schuby Under the thumb of The Man

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    My understanding, and this is based just on the information provided by one of our South African posters, is that paramedic/ambulance service in SA is slow (hour, two hour waits) and not reliable enough for use in true emergencies. People instead just go to the hospital.

    ETA: no idea why that frown it there. Nothing to do w/your post James!
     
  12. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    I'm skeptical of some of OP's claims in his BH affidavit, but I don't think he's lying about this portion.

    Regarding Vermeulen's conclusion that OP was on his stumps when he bashed in the toilet door:

    I don't give any credence to Col Vermeulen's testimony related to the cricket bat marks on the door.

    Per his own testimony, he's not a certified tool mark examiner. IOW, he lacks the necessary training and experience that would qualify him to analyze the door for any tool marks - including cricket bat marks.

    IMO, Vermeulen's conclusion that OP was on his stumps (and not on his prosthetics) when he bashed in the toilet door is questionable (to say the least) - not to mention that it's contrary to the State's assertion that OP was wearing his prosthetics at that particular time.

    I've never seen a case where the State's own forensic analyst gave testimony that was antithetical to the State's case. But then, I'm used to following US cases & trials where the State's forensic analysts possess the necessary credentials related to their testimony.
     
  13. Schuby

    Schuby Under the thumb of The Man

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    One thing that occurs to me about the bat marks, I wonder if the state (and we here) are wrongly assuming that because the marks are low on the door, this must mean he swung while only on his stumps. If you think about trying to break down a locked door, the natural tendency is to swing near the lock, because it is the lock you're really trying to break through or disable, not necessarily the door itself.

    I'm wondering of they are picturing him swinging almost overhand when in reality he would be swinging as a baseball player swings at a strike, below the waist.
     
  14. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    Good point, Schuby!

    I hadn't though of that before. I had always pictured him swinging overhand, rather than like you just described - like a baseball player swinging a baseball bat.
     
  15. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    Another thought (jumping off Schuby's post) - I wonder if the marks in the door would match a cricket bat being swung like a baseball bat.
     
  16. Schuby

    Schuby Under the thumb of The Man

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    Thanks--and just building on that, he had to have his prosthetics on, because the fulcrum of your force isn't in your arms-it's in your legs. You can't generate a forceful swing without lining up your hips and legs correctly as a fulcrum.
     
  17. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    Totally true!

    When I was a teen, I played girl's softball, and when I learned how to put my legs behind my swing, I hit homeruns every single time.
     
  18. Schuby

    Schuby Under the thumb of The Man

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    This would also explain why he felt the need to put on his prosthetics before trying to break in the door-he knew instinctively he couldn't generate a powerful swing from his stumps.

    ETA: imagine kneeling on your knees trying to swing a baseball bat with any force--it isn't going to happen.
     
  19. minor4th

    minor4th Verified Attorney

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    According to Oscar's statements when he called Stander at 3:19, he asked him to call an ambulance. Then Oscar called Netcare at 3:20.
     
  20. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    https://twitter.com/SHOOT_HiRezLife/status/444344152734445569/photo/1

    One of the marks appears to be slightly behind the door handle.

    I'm trying to figure out how it came to be there & if there may be marks on the door handle. It looks like there are scratches on the end of the door handle, but it's hard to tell without a more close-up shot.

    It's really too bad that portions of the broken panel weren't collected and/or were lost.

    If all the portions had been reassembled, they would have told a more complete story.
     
  21. Val1

    Val1 New Member

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    Wouldn't the marks behind the door handle be more consistent with him having either wedged his bat into the crack and flips the panel out towards him, or just pulled it out with his hands, thus causing the mark as the handle caught it?
     

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