'The doors'

[Estelle]

Oh, that's possible if the print was on one of the pieces that was laying on the floor when they arrived. Either way, it is a contamination of the integrity of the evidence though.

To my untrained eye, those two curved marks near the handle look exactly like the tip of a cricket bat might make, to me. With the bat turned in the hands inbetween blows, maybe because the hitter lost his grip, dropped it and then picked it up?

The doorhandle is straight and unbent, so I don't see how it could have made those curved marks against the wood. I do see how the bat could have hit that spot though, despite the door handle being in the way. That was the panel eventually ripped out completely and found on the floor. So I think it was already partially caved in towards the toilet (so leaning away from the handle and providing clearance) when the tip of the bat was used as a battering ram.

Regarding the locked and battered bedroom door - is there any possibility Reeva locked OP out, and, failing to break through, he used the ladders left outside to climb in through the balcony windows? If he took her by surprise she might not have had time to unlock the door again and escape, hence the fleeing to the toilet? Maybe that's what inspired him with the intruder/ladder scenario.......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hotographs-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2vrt9C81m

If he used one of the ladders, wouldn't it have still been up leaning against the balcony?

 

[steveml]

Would an expert be able to tell if the damage on the bedroom door was fresh or whether it had been there a while? I imagine that an expert could tell if the projectile in the bedroom door was shot from inside the bedroom or from the other side. I hope we get to hear more about the bedroom door from the prosecution.

I'll be interested to learn if the hole was made by a bullet, and if it was made by an air-rifle or a pistol. As OP appears to be quite partial to firing guns in confined spaces, it may be that he took a potshot at the door on a previous occasion with the air-rifle. Even if it didn't happen at the time of Reeva's shooting, it's certainly not going to help Roux portray OP as a responsible firearms owner.

 

[Maisiebelle]

I was thinking that OP might have been arguing with Reeva and she tried to leave. So he locked the bedroom door to stop her and she was freaking out. He might have aimed a shot towards the bedroom door to scare her which led to her hiding in the toilet. Just speculation of course.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Here is a link to a very well done, easy to understand diagram/drawing of the toilet area door, showing who testified to what:

http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2014/03/...-all-evidence-surrounding-the-pistorius-door/

 

[Harmony 2]

Here is a link to a very well done, easy to understand diagram/drawing of the toilet area door, showing who testified to what:

http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2014/03/...-all-evidence-surrounding-the-pistorius-door/

Awesome, thanks for posting!!

 

[lisasalinger]

I have a few screenshots from Van Staden's testimony this morning that show marks on one of the toilet door panels that I haven't seen before. Check them out.

The first pic, shows the door as it's reconstructed in the courtroom. The second and third pics, show the middle panel of that door (with two gunshot holes in it) on the bathroom floor and there are 4 very distinct etch marks on it. I'm guessing these have to be on the backside of the door - the side that would have been facing Reeva - because they are not on the front.

Perhaps I missed something in testimony... can anybody identify what caused these marks?

 

[Val1]

Here is a link to a very well done, easy to understand diagram/drawing of the toilet area door, showing who testified to what:

http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2014/03/...-all-evidence-surrounding-the-pistorius-door/

I disagree with both versions for #4, why couldn't OP have stepped/stumbled while trying to pick up/carry RS causing that mark and not by kicking it like a chorus girl, as for these alleged sock fibres on it... umm doesn't he wear his socks inside his prosthetics... so any sock fibres on it point more to him having stepped on it while trying to drag RS out of the toilet room, right?:banghead: As for #6, do any of these experts actually work with wood fibres? It is more than possible to shoot or drill through a piece of cracked wood.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Val1: So, are you thinking he got enough of a door panel loose or off or made some kind of a hole that he could see her, then shot her?

 

[canny]

I don't think the prosecution is alleging that OP was on his stumps when he bashed in the toilet door with the cricket bat. I think they agree with the Defense that he was wearing his prosthetics by that time.

To my knowledge, the only one claiming that OP was on his stumps when he bashed in the toilet door is Col Vermeulen (the forensics guy who isn't certified in tool mark examination), which is contrary to the State's case that he was wearing his prosthetics during the door bashing.

Not being a certified tool mark Inspector doesn’t disqualify him from examining the door and testifying on behalf of the State.LT Col Vermeulen testified on behalf of the State detailing at length the official position of the prosecution regarding OP’s claim of wearing his prosthetics and then breaking open the door. Without the approval of Nel and his superiors he could not have make such an serious statement of fact for the State about OP not wearing his prosthetics at such an critical juncture after shooting Reeva dead. In proving that OP broke open the door on his stumps the state is trying to expose another lie in his BH affidavit that he had limited mobility on his stumps and felt vulnerable in trying circumstances that forced him into impulsive decisions as per his whims and fancies. In short the prosecution is alluding to one fact that OP was in total command and control of the circumstances that night and intentionally murdered Reeva in cold blood, reinforcing their charge of premeditated murder. NO handicapped man crawling on his knees will position himself in front of a wooden toilet door in pitch darkness scream and threaten a burglar hiding in his toilet to get out of his house, knowing very well that the well armed burglar (SA burglars love guns) would respond with a volley of gunfire making him a sitting duck, unless he knew there was no intruder behind that door.

Kindly produce some evidence from the trial where Nel has stated that OP was wearing his prosthetics when he broke open the door.

The bat in the attached pic fits perfectly well in the dent only if it is held in the manner and angle as shown by Col Vermulen. The horizontal angle of the bat aligned so close to the door fits perfectly well into the dent ONLY if OP was on his stumps and not wearing his prosthetics as alleged by him. The handle of the bat is three feet from the floor in close proximity to the door, why don’t you trying hitting a bat on your door in a similar angle standing upright on your feet, and judge for yourself how clumsy and a very uncomfortable position you would be putting yourself in ? Next replicate it standing on your knees

A man will raise his axe well over his head to chop or cut wood, OP could not have made this dent and bat angle wearing his prosthetics.

 

[Val1]

Val1: So, are you thinking he got enough of a door panel loose or off or made some kind of a hole that he could see her, then shot her?

Yes, that splintered part that's missing just above and to the right of the hole closest to the lock, you could easily use that to see through, at least enough to judge location based on how small that toilet room is.

 

[Tooby]

To my untrained eye, those two curved marks near the handle look exactly like the tip of a cricket bat might make, to me. With the bat turned in the hands inbetween blows, maybe because the hitter lost his grip, dropped it and then picked it up?

The doorhandle is straight and unbent, so I don't see how it could have made those curved marks against the wood. I do see how the bat could have hit that spot though, despite the door handle being in the way. That was the panel eventually ripped out completely and found on the floor. So I think it was already partially caved in towards the toilet (so leaning away from the handle and providing clearance) when the tip of the bat was used as a battering ram.

Regarding the locked and battered bedroom door - is there any possibility Reeva locked OP out, and, failing to break through, he used the ladders left outside to climb in through the balcony windows? If he took her by surprise she might not have had time to unlock the door again and escape, hence the fleeing to the toilet? Maybe that's what inspired him with the intruder/ladder scenario.......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hotographs-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2vrt9C81m

If that panel was levered outwards, the inner corner of the handle would have marred the wood and left those gouges in it.

Allso, does anyone know the height of the bathroom and if it has enough room for a bat to be swung overhead? If you're going to take a door apart, you do it with overhead swings, not like hitting a baseball, imho. Unless the ceiling restricts you.


Regards the bedroom door, OPs testimony is he picked up RS and shoulder-charged that double door as it was locked. That is some going as those doors opened inwards to the bedroom. In other words, OP is forcing a door(s) that are supported by the frame at top and sides. In fact, I'd say if it was a single door, he'd still to this day be trying to put his shoulder through it.

But a shoulder-charge won't leave marks on the eddge of the door by the lock, such as are seen in photograph(s)

Also, the 'hole', whether bullet or air-rifle pellet, needs explaining. It looks like the police messed the forensics up so much that Nels can't use them for fear of adverse judgments. Better to go without them.

 

[molly333]

I still can't figure out how he got into the toilet room.

I have seen no pictures of the door that convince me he was able to reach through the door and pick up the key off the floor.

Have others seen those pictures?

Otherwise the only way to open the door would be a key from the outside.

We'll find out tomorrow, I guess.

 

[beach]

:bump:

 

[homegirl]

WC Door Part 1
I have obsessed a bit about it about the WC door, and especially about that plank from the door which was found laying partly in, and partly out, of the WC. I posted about it on one of the threads, but I have a part 2 which I will post below this one. I think that it is important because I believe it proves that, circumstantially, OP altered the crime scene.

I was waiting for Nel to cross OP about the bathroom and the WC. When he did, I was astounded and dissapointed at the brevity of it. He questioned OP about Reeva’s position and where he found her cell phone. OP said he phone was lying where the plank was. Nel said, “and the plank?” Op said, “I don’t remember.” And that was it. I am convinced that Nel will have more to say about it.

The plank could not have been in lying in that position in the WC when OP dragged Reeva out into the bathroom, mainly because it is lying on top of the blood trail. The dimensions of the WC are 4’ 10 1/2” X 3’ 11 1/4” (inside dimensions). The plank is longer than the WC is wide. I am estimating the plank to be at least 4 1/2’ long, because one end is against the wall, and the other extends through the doorway and into the bathroom a few inches. It was found front side down.

The larger piece of the door panel was found on the floor, against the tub. It appears that he ripped it out and threw it there. Could that be a possible cause of the damage to the metal plate at the base of the tub?

Now for the smaller plank. It seems to me that, if he had knocked it straight into the WC, one end of it would most likely be against the base of the door, and the other resting on the opposite wall. Alternately, one end could be against the wall, (where OP said the magazine rack was), with the other end protruding through the door once the other panel was removed. When opening the door, it would have fallen in a position similar to the way it was found. It would most likely be back side down however. It would fit into the WC length wise, or on the diagonal, but I hate to think of it hitting poor Reeva. At any rate, OP would have had to pull it out of the WC. He had to go in to pick up Reeva. There is no room in that small space for Reeva, OP and the plank. So how could the police have found it lying in the WC face side down, on top of the blood trail?

I considered that maybe it was in his way in the bathroom, and he kicked or threw it back onto the WC after moving Reeva into the bathroom. But I can see no sign in the blood trail indicating that anything slid through it. The end protruding into the bathroom is resting in a fairly large blood pool and it doesn’t seem to be smeared. I don’t see a likely path for it to have been kicked along. It is lying neatly, almost completely parallel to the seam in the tiles. That does not seem the result of a random kick or toss. Reeva would have been lying in the bathroom, between the tub and the doorway. The bat was to the right of her. And the open door was open to the left. It is improbable that he kicked or threw it into the WC. I have concluded that OP must have placed it there after moving her. Why?

The first photo below shows the plank as found. The side that is up is the WC facing, or back side. You can see the exit hole of bullet C. I have pointed with a yellow arrow to that small protrusion which forms half of bullet hole D. The other half is in that small piece of he door which has been so much discussed as to how the cracks were made (not shown). There are some good sized splinters next to the plank. They probably landed there when the door was struck by the bat and by the prying motion.

The second photo was taken after the plank was turned over as they processed the scene. Nell pointed out that there was ‘body tissue” on it.

The third photo is cropped to show a close up of half of bullet hole D. There is also, obviously, blood on it. The “kick mark” can be seen on the front side as well, above bullet hole C.

link
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2014/03/17/oscar-pistorius-crime-scene-photos-murder-trial

 

[Murphys_Law]

Is there any significance, reasoning or logic to the colour coding of the ballistic rods as seen in the attached 2 photos. On the outside face of the door to the toilette, the holes A,B, and C are marked with red tags, while hole D has a green tag. Likewise, on the inside face of the door the rods corresponding to holes A, B, C are red coated, while the rod associated with hole D is unmarked. I assume hole D differs in some meaningful way to the other holes.


Fellow sleuthers, do you have any ideas on the observation?
For example: a different size of hole, inferring different ammunition, and thus a different gun

 

[sleuth-d-]

Is there any significance, reasoning or logic to the colour coding of the ballistic rods as seen in the attached 2 photos. On the outside face of the door to the toilette, the holes A,B, and C are marked with red tags, while hole D has a green tag. Likewise, on the inside face of the door the rods corresponding to holes A, B, C are red coated, while the rod associated with hole D is unmarked. I assume hole D differs in some meaningful way to the other holes.


Fellow sleuthers, do you have any ideas on the observation?
For example: a different size of hole, inferring different ammunition, and thus a different gun

maybe the shot that missed.

 

[homegirl]

WC Door Part 2

As I was puzzling about how the plank ended up lying atop the blood trail, I noticed that the piece of wood in this photo looked to be the same size and shape of the piece on the reconstructed door which has the other half of bullet hole D through it. There are also a some small splinters in that area. The first photo is a screen shot I snapped as I watched Van Staden give testimony.

The second photo is a screen shot is from Lisa’s Juror 13 blog. It is a closer, but blurrier view of that small piece.The shape is a little easier to see.

Photo 3. I opened Lisa’s closer-up one in Photoshop. I cut the piece of wood out from the floor and superimposed it over a photo of the reconstructed door. I resized it, keeping the dimensions constrained so that it wasn’t distorted in any way. The only other things I did were to flip it over horizontally and position it. You can see it, in blue, fitted over that small piece with bullet hole D in it. I couldn’t get any subtitles of shape when I cut it from the screen shot, but it sure looks like a fit to me.

I placed two inserts, outlined in green, over the photo of the door section. The one on the left shows my cut out fitted into a cropped image which shows more of the door.

I did the one in the center just for fun. I cloned on the wood grain to my cut out. Unless you knew what I did you probably wouldn’t even notice it.

Here is what I think most likely happened. OP hit the door with the bat. The door splintered and some of the splinters fell into the WC. I outlined the splintered area in red- the insert on the left. He could see Reva through the splintered area. When he shot her, a crack formed from bullet D hole upwards, but the crack on the left, going downwards, was not made by the bullet. Op ripped out that plank and threw it against the wall, near the entrance.The small piece with the bullet hole broke off, along with the splinters you can see in photos 1 and2. It bounced or slid into the position where it came to rest. That impact event cause the crack going down from the bullet hole. At some point, after moving Reeva into the bathroom, Op placed that plank, face side down, into the WC. He lined it up neatly on the tiles. He did all of this but can’t remember anything about it.

These things cannot have escaped the notice of Nel, or of Roux. I sure would like to know when Nel plans to talk about it.
MOP

Links:
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-days-9-and-10-crime-scene-photos/

https://twitter.com/HiRezLife/status/444344152734445569

 

[Murphys_Law]

maybe the shot that missed.

Hole B is the shot that missed. It ricocheted off Point E on the toilette wall tiles, and then hit Point F on the tiles.

 

[shane13]

Is there any significance, reasoning or logic to the colour coding of the ballistic rods as seen in the attached 2 photos. On the outside face of the door to the toilette, the holes A,B, and C are marked with red tags, while hole D has a green tag. Likewise, on the inside face of the door the rods corresponding to holes A, B, C are red coated, while the rod associated with hole D is unmarked. I assume hole D differs in some meaningful way to the other holes.


Fellow sleuthers, do you have any ideas on the observation?
For example: a different size of hole, inferring different ammunition, and thus a different gun

Murph:
To me it looks like the D hole may be in a panel and not in the standing door.

ETA: Or in a loose panel if they temporarilly placed back that panel.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Murph:
To me it looks like the D hole may be in a panel and not in the standing door.

Sha;-) I'm not sure what you mean...can you restate. thx