The DWT - The Truck(s?) and the Surveillance Images

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Kgeaux, most of what I say here is not directed at you because I don't remember you as one of those that I felt was disrespectful.

I get what you are saying based on those principles but as I and others have said since day one... No one believes the police or anyone else lied about the surveillance video. As a matter of fact they never gave ANY STATEMENT period over the surveillance pictures. They never came out and confirmed or denied it.

I grew up in a family of police officers. And I know for an absolute fact that the police are under NO OBLIGATION to release all of the details of any piece of evidence. I never said they lied or 'covered up' the truth. I have nothing but respect for all members of law enforcement. By not releasing all of the facts, that does not mean they are doing anything disrespectful to the family or public. It means they care about the integrity of the investigation and want want a solid conviction. There were many, many details of this investigations that were kept confidential as it should be.

Once again, if this was the only picture they have of this truck and they strongly suspect the driver is responsible for an abduction, they WILL blur out potential evidence and they will release the enhanced picture if they think it will help identity the suspect. I am sooooo confused why this has been so difficult for people to understand.

And, another thing I don't get that people argue against. Perps absolutely DO abduct people right out in public!!!! Happens often. What about the woman that was abducted off a street curb in broad daylight outside a flower shop by men in a van and as later found murdered, what about the young woman that was led out of a coffee shop by a man in a hoodie and never seen again, what about the perp that attempted to adbduct the little girl a few weeks ago as she was walking her brother down a city street????? I could go on and on. It happens all the time.

Yes, it was improbable that Brandon hit Mickey right there at the Circle K but was it impossible??? No. Was it improbable that Mickey was able to get the knife from Brandon and stab him...yes. But it happened. In an investigation, the improbable is often exactly what happened.

And I have always welcomed discussion of the stills and have had no problem stating why I believed I saw something in the pictures. There were people that did make some of us feel like our opinion was not welcome. I don't remember you as being one of those people.

Some of us that thought the bike light could be under the truck do talk and I know that I am not alone is saying that we did feel attacked at times. Not by the general back and forth discussion but some of the rude comments and people saying we should not discuss it and to move on. Those were the only types of comments that absolutely infuriated me and many others. There is a group that formed an entired new forum just because they felt unwelcome here!

Now that this is said and done, I know some of the local police. I bartended in the area in the past. Those that I am aware of had just as many questions as we have had and not one of them laughed at the possibility she could have been hit there on the surveillance. It was not like the police sat around and joked about what we here on WS theorize. Most of them highly respect that any of us take valuable time from our lives to search for answers in the disappearance and murder of a young woman and trust me, there is NOTHING funny about any of it.

We're beating a dead horse! I'm just going to address a couple of your points, and I think that will be it for me on this topic!

#1. The police did make a statement about the still photo captured from the video. They said it had been "enhanced to make it as clear as possible." That statement was made when the photos were released.

#2. IF that photo showed a crime scene, police "may" have blurred out a body, etc. But they would have identified the photo as showing "the" vehicle we were looking for....they would not have blurred out objects that would help to identify the truck. That was suggested. It was stated that LE would blur out identifying marks so the driver of the truck wouldn't know police were onto him....that I don't believe for a second. LE would have been all over the identifying aspects of that truck like white on rice.

#3. Yes, people have been abducted in public. We weren't talking about a simple abduction, though. It was said that the truck hit the bike, ran over the bike, backed up off of the bike and loaded it up right in front of Circle K and multiple witness, at the corner of a very busy road, under a street light. That is way beyond improbable, at least in my opinion.

#4. I know some local LE, too. They weren't thinking we had managed to find some clues that they were trying to hide, and that is putting it politely.

#5. I am sorry some members felt the need to leave WS because some people questioned their theory. People on the other side of that fence left, too, because they also felt uncomfortable.

I have found that I needed to grow a thick skin when my theories get vetted and dissected and ripped apart...I have learned that other people aren't attacking ME, but are actually helping me by challenging me to defend my point. More than once I've done a complete turn around because of the points made by a poster who disagrees with me. Iron sharpens iron.

Peace, CajunStrong. I hope you will stick around WS and join in many other discussions. You'll find that we will agree on some and not so much on others!
 
Have not caught up nor have I read all the posts regarding the confession, have stayed away from this a bit lately... but I did say I would eat crow gladly in turn for the truth...and seems I must do so. So, consider it done. But the truth is way more painful then stomaching being wrong.

I will also repost (for the 3rd time) my thoughts on the DWT...because I knew my eyes were playing tricks on me.

Copied my own post from MUCH earlier in the threads re: my feelings on the DWT.

I feel like an idiot.I really do because I do see MS and the bike under the truck in the one picture. I absolutely see it...BUT at the same time I know it can not be...there is just no way, logic tells me there IS NO WAY (oh, and a few of you may have reminded me too). Yet, my eyes see what they see and I keep having to force myself to not believe my eyes. For me that picture is the definition of my eyes playing tricks on me. So, no I do not believe she is in the picture...but heck if I do not see it still.
IMO

I miss you Mickey!
 
snipped your post a little.

You think it's funny that people were horrified to hear a theory based on LE lying to the public about seeing Mickey get struck ON CAMERA? Or that people reacted negatively to posts which stated that LE had blurred over identifying marks on Brandon's truck?

My reaction was based on several things:
It was HIGHLY improbable. Perps don't choose populated areas to hit and kidnap someone with multiple witnesses standing a couple of yards away.

LE is NOT going to blur details on a suspect's truck. That would make it impossible for the public to help identify the truck or the driver.

It is impossible to further correctly enhance a pre-enhanced photo unless you know what was done previously.

It made us look ridiculous to LE, FBI, Mickey's family and other websites.

I do believe that everyone has a right to express themselves. But once you do, you have to accept that others are going to challenge your opinions.

When those of us who did not agree that we saw what you saw posted that, WE were told that we weren't being helpful. It is hard to have true give and take in situations like that. I think it was remarkable how we all held our tempers and managed to be respectful!

I've made plenty of mistakes in the past, and if you've read here for awhile, you'll be familiar with a statement that I often make. " I have been wrong in the past, I will be wrong in the future, I may be wrong right now." When I am wrong, I do not defend my debunked theory, I apologize for muddying the investigative waters, and I try to learn something from the whole experience. I had a wrong theory that Mickey must have accepted a ride from someone she knew, because there was no other way we'd have no trace of her or her bike. I was wrong.

I am sorry if you feel defensive. No one here faults you or any other person who thought they saw something. As far as I am concerned, there is no "y'all" vs "us." We were ALL here for Mickey.

I was. Here for Mickey. I tried to be anyway. I live in California but was raised in the midwest. Everyone is family there too. I didn't know her but I sure hurt for her and wanted her to come home. I am truly sorry if I embarrassed you or made anybody feel that it was a big joke here. Of course it stung a time or two when negative adjectives were thrown in with those rebuttals. It does hurt to have what you think be the butt of someone's joke. I never intended to embarrass members here or frustrate anyone and I did feel strongly in the information I posted. I still do. How crazy is that? Actually, don't answer that.

I don't mind I told you so.. or crow. Spicy please. I am so glad he didn't get away with it. I am still just trying to wrap my head around all of it. It's so horrible. A knife, a gun, mace, in a violent scary fight for life. A truly elaborate crime. The plea agreement and confession. I hope Mickey did almost kill him. I hope that part is true. I am only sad she didn't succeed. Mickey's family is ok with the closure they have and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. Mickey is home as promised by her sister and friends and she can be properly laid to rest. May God give her the most beautiful wings and send her to look after those who loved her most. God Bless.
 
We're beating a dead horse! I'm just going to address a couple of your points, and I think that will be it for me on this topic!

#1. The police did make a statement about the still photo captured from the video. They said it had been "enhanced to make it as clear as possible." That statement was made when the photos were released.

#2. IF that photo showed a crime scene, police "may" have blurred out a body, etc. But they would have identified the photo as showing "the" vehicle we were looking for....they would not have blurred out objects that would help to identify the truck. That was suggested. It was stated that LE would blur out identifying marks so the driver of the truck wouldn't know police were onto him....that I don't believe for a second. LE would have been all over the identifying aspects of that truck like white on rice.

#3. Yes, people have been abducted in public. We weren't talking about a simple abduction, though. It was said that the truck hit the bike, ran over the bike, backed up off of the bike and loaded it up right in front of Circle K and multiple witness, at the corner of a very busy road, under a street light. That is way beyond improbable, at least in my opinion.

#4. I know some local LE, too. They weren't thinking we had managed to find some clues that they were trying to hide, and that is putting it politely.

#5. I am sorry some members felt the need to leave WS because some people questioned their theory. People on the other side of that fence left, too, because they also felt uncomfortable.

I have found that I needed to grow a thick skin when my theories get vetted and dissected and ripped apart...I have learned that other people aren't attacking ME, but are actually helping me by challenging me to defend my point. More than once I've done a complete turn around because of the points made by a poster who disagrees with me. Iron sharpens iron.

Peace, CajunStrong. I hope you will stick around WS and join in many other discussions. You'll find that we will agree on some and not so much on others!

Kgeaux, I am not arguing with anything you are saying. I actually never really thought anything was blurred out but I know others that did and I respected what they saw and considered that they could be right.

I have no problem with anyone that disagrees with me. It would be a very boring forum if we all agreed on everything!

I don't feel any more strongly that the bike was hit here vs that I thought he murdered her and buried her that night. It was only one of my many thoughts on this case....most of which were all wrong.

Again, my only issue and reason for posting at all in this thread was because I think it is important to stand up and say that no matter how rediculous a theory may sound to some, no one should be ridiculed for contributing. And I thank you for not being one of those people.

And, for those that asked, I posted here today because for one...I was wrong and knew I needed to take it like a 'man' and because I didn't want to taint the other threads any further with the truck discussion since it has a place of it's own here.
 
I have found that I needed to grow a thick skin when my theories get vetted and dissected and ripped apart...I have learned that other people aren't attacking ME, but are actually helping me by challenging me to defend my point. More than once I've done a complete turn around because of the points made by a poster who disagrees with me. Iron sharpens iron.

I think it's important to underscore this thought.

And also, maybe a sharing of personal experiences to do so is in order.

Early on, in the wake of the surveillance photos being released, I (and a handful of other posters) posed the idea of the Versailles photo being manipulated to obscure something across the street, out in front of the school.

Another astute poster (forgive me, I didn't take names on this) pointed out that the "blurring" or "light distortion" or whatever seemed to fall in such a way that eliminated the possibility of it being a vehicle being intentionally blurred out, given what would have to have been the placement of said vehicle (on the sidewalk, in front of the storm drain).

That poster attacked our idea. Savagely. But not once did I feel as though (s)he was attacking me, or any other person who held that idea.

To be a little blunt here, if you're so thin-skinned that you simply cannot stand someone disagreeing with you, or that you can't stand being wrong, or that you perceive dissection of or doubt being cast upon your theories or ideas as some sort of personal attack, then WS probably isn't a good place for you.

And to be quite fair, in balancing it all out: if a poster attacked another poster on a personal level, then that doesn't belong at WS either.

"Check your ego at the door" should be the tagline here at WS.

And with that, I have to once again thank everyone for the robust discussion, debate, conversation, brainstorming, etc.

Cheers.
 
I dont understand why everyone is taking this so personally. No one has said anything disrespectful. It's okay to be wrong. We all have been at one point as sleuthers. Can we please be kind to one another?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using tapatalk
 
I think it's important to underscore this thought.

And also, maybe a sharing of personal experiences to do so is in order.

Early on, in the wake of the surveillance photos being released, I (and a handful of other posters) posed the idea of the Versailles photo being manipulated to obscure something across the street, out in front of the school.

Another astute poster (forgive me, I didn't take names on this) pointed out that the "blurring" or "light distortion" or whatever seemed to fall in such a way that eliminated the possibility of it being a vehicle being intentionally blurred out, given what would have to have been the placement of said vehicle (on the sidewalk, in front of the storm drain).

That poster attacked our idea. Savagely. But not once did I feel as though (s)he was attacking me, or any other person who held that idea.

To be a little blunt here, if you're so thin-skinned that you simply cannot stand someone disagreeing with you, or that you can't stand being wrong, or that you perceive dissection of or doubt being cast upon your theories or ideas as some sort of personal attack, then WS probably isn't a good place for you.

And to be quite fair, in balancing it all out: if a poster attacked another poster on a personal level, then that doesn't belong at WS either.

"Check your ego at the door" should be the tagline here at WS.

And with that, I have to once again thank everyone for the robust discussion, debate, conversation, brainstorming, etc.

Cheers.

Well said.

There are opinions and there are theories, and some opinions are theories, and some theories are opinions. Not all opinions are theories, and not all theories are opinions. The underlying purpose of this place, called Websleuths, is to figure things out. That's what "sleuthing" is. Part of the scientific method of turning theories into facts is to examine them and hammer them from every angle. It helps get to the truth of things.

When an opinion is insistently pushed at others over and over, it becomes a theory, in fact, whether intended to be so or not. Theories that are not allowed to be questioned have no scientific value. It's like asking someone to jump out of a window, but refusing to allow them to look out to see how far the drop is - or like asking someone to dive into a pool without allowing them to look to see if there's any water in it.

Posting an opinion over and over, without allowing folks to treat it with the respect and productive scrutiny given a theory, becomes noise at some point, noise that folks finally feel compelled to respond to, because it's always there. When folks do the respect of trying to logically address a theory, that's different than personally attacking someone. And if someone gets personal with someone else, it is not axiomatic that the honest, non-ad-hominem posters, should pay the price for something someone else did, and from that point forward, abandon the scientific method.

Without the scientific method, which includes dispassionately examining all evidence, police work could never succeed.

And with that, I will let this poor horse finally rest.

:bigfight::deadhorse:

And for the first time in a long while, go to bed without counting DWTs.

:countsheep:

The ba$tard's in Angola tonight and his DWT days are over....
 
Well said.

There are opinions and there are theories, and some opinions are theories, and some theories are opinions. Not all opinions are theories, and not all theories are opinions. The underlying purpose of this place, called Websleuths, is to figure things out. That's what "sleuthing" is. Part of the scientific method of turning theories into facts is to examine them and hammer them from every angle. It helps get to the truth of things.

When an opinion is insistently pushed at others over and over, it becomes a theory, in fact, whether intended to be so or not. Theories that are not allowed to be questioned have no scientific value. It's like asking someone to jump out of a window, but refusing to allow them to look out to see how far the drop is - or like asking someone to dive into a pool without allowing them to look to see if there's any water in it.

Posting an opinion over and over, without allowing folks to treat it with the respect and productive scrutiny given a theory, becomes noise at some point, noise that folks finally feel compelled to respond to, because it's always there. When folks do the respect of trying to logically address a theory, that's different than personally attacking someone. And if someone gets personal with someone else, it is not axiomatic that the honest, non-ad-hominem posters, should pay the price for something someone else did, and from that point forward, abandon the scientific method.

Without the scientific method, which includes dispassionately examining all evidence, police work could never succeed.

And with that, I will let this poor horse finally rest.

:bigfight::deadhorse:

And for the first time in a long while, go to bed without counting DWTs.

:countsheep:

The ba$tard's in Angola tonight and his DWT days are over....

well said, I am so glad this DWT thing is over! sometimes truth is stranger than you would think but most of the time logic is just plain logic! i am so glad we now know what happened to Mickey. I am glad Mickey's family can start to heal. I am glad Mickey was such a strong, sassy woman that could bring down a killer even if it meant her life, although I wish it didn't end that way.
 
I still think it's funny/crazy how some people had/have such a strong reaction against this theory. That is all it was, was a theory. Whether or not the bike was hit here or there had little, if any, bearing on the case. It was more of a curiosity.

It really seemed to bring out the worst in some people (and I am NOT talking about those in favor of it) and I just don't understand why. I always saw 'something' in the pictures and will always wonder why I see what I see. And I have defended what I thought I saw but only when confronted.

I will now and always stand up strongly for the rights of people to post what they want and to be able to express themselves without intimidation. Any emotion from me was in defense of that right. I respect all people's opinions and theories and if I don't agree I just move on. I have no internal need to attack anyone's opinion.

Now we all have a good idea what happened if we can trust that Brandon told the truth. When I heard the details of what happened to Mickey I didn't even take notice of the fact she wasn't hit at the Circle K...it is that unimportant to me. I am surprised that it would be on the minds of anyone.

All I can think about is that she had to die for absolutely no reason. It was completely senseless. I have a child that is just a few days older than Mickey and I cannot help but to think of what it would be like for my child to have faced this monster.

When a killer like this confesses and there is enough evidence to prove without a doubt that they killed someone in this manner, as soon as the guilty plea is signed, they should immediately be led to a back room and be put to death. Someone like this should not ever have the opportunity to spend the rest of their life in jail. I always think about the victims last 30 seconds of life and the horror of knowing that that's it, everything you know is over. Every killer should have to experience that same feeling!

BBM

This is what this entire sub-thread is about and what we have been sleuthing and debating since May. Surely it couldn't be that hard to understand how new evidence would be put together to figure out where she was hit and that it wasn't in front of Circle K. That doesn't make anyone a lesser person for thinking about these facts as I feel you are trying to insinuate. That's part of being logical and being a good sleuther. We care about all the facts in this case, especially heavily debated ones.
 
Well said.

There are opinions and there are theories, and some opinions are theories, and some theories are opinions. Not all opinions are theories, and not all theories are opinions. The underlying purpose of this place, called Websleuths, is to figure things out. That's what "sleuthing" is. Part of the scientific method of turning theories into facts is to examine them and hammer them from every angle. It helps get to the truth of things.

When an opinion is insistently pushed at others over and over, it becomes a theory, in fact, whether intended to be so or not. Theories that are not allowed to be questioned have no scientific value. It's like asking someone to jump out of a window, but refusing to allow them to look out to see how far the drop is - or like asking someone to dive into a pool without allowing them to look to see if there's any water in it.

Posting an opinion over and over, without allowing folks to treat it with the respect and productive scrutiny given a theory, becomes noise at some point, noise that folks finally feel compelled to respond to, because it's always there. When folks do the respect of trying to logically address a theory, that's different than personally attacking someone. And if someone gets personal with someone else, it is not axiomatic that the honest, non-ad-hominem posters, should pay the price for something someone else did, and from that point forward, abandon the scientific method.

Without the scientific method, which includes dispassionately examining all evidence, police work could never succeed.

And with that, I will let this poor horse finally rest.

:bigfight::deadhorse:

And for the first time in a long while, go to bed without counting DWTs.

:countsheep:

The ba$tard's in Angola tonight and his DWT days are over....


I love your posts, even though I have to use Google to get definitions of your use of words sometimes. LoL. I always look forward to reading your posts because they make sense and you always provide logic to back your words up. Plus you throw in tasteful and appropriate humor. As this starts to wind down, I must admit that I'll miss your posts. You tirelessly worked on identifying the hooptie, you went drive to a house where you suspected that hooptie was on a hunch, you dissected the DWT photos with a ton of logic and physics (HouDat thanks also) over and over, despite being opposed constantly. You'd mention that your hands hurt, but you would still contribute with long articulate posts. You spent money on gas to go out to WB to take pictures. I don't want to sound like an uber fan or anything but your posts impacted me the most and I looked forward to reading what you had to say. I haven't built that much rapport with you, but I am drawn to your intelligence and think you should write a book. (Maybe you have and I just missed that fact!)
 
ugg... I hate crow! BUT guess what I am having for dinner?!?!

I have learned to love barbecue crow since becoming a Ws member. I had it for supper also. Actually had two servings to cover my belief about the 3 people , that I saw, in the truck.
 
Well, DANG!

Like you, Jkg005, I debated on whether to post in this closing-up-this-topic exchange. Finally decided I would, and spent a lot of time typing out a LONG comment -- during which process my log-in timed out, I guess, and when I tried to log in and "proceed" -- yeah, you guessed it: Post was totally lost. Tried every which way to retrieve it, but no way, nohow. Arrrgh!

But now I'm thinking -- maybe it just wasn't meant to be, huh? All that stuff I was trying to say maybe wasn't so important, after all.

The bottom line: Peace, everybody!

It was like a double edged sword for me because if the bike was not under the truck I had put my heart and soul into what happened to Mickey and too much time would have been wasted. But if the bike had been under the truck it made me sick that the possibility was being ruled out based on theory and logic when it was not known if Mickey was in motion or not. IMO that was a key point in probability vs possibility. Mickey needed to be found and brought home! I agree at this point it just doesn't matter but at the time it did.

Well wishes to all. What an amazing woman Mickey was she can now rest in peace.
 
We now know that BSL used a truck, knife, and gun on Mickey. What a sick, sick man.
 
I think the frustration was felt by both sides... And because of all the time and effort, heart and soul that was being put into the bike/Mickey under the truck theory, is, imo, why many posters were challenging your theories,including detailed explanations of how, scientifically, neither Mickey nor her bike could be under the dwt... IMO, most were being helpful, and truely believed their explanation would allow some to see it from their point of view and abandon the bike under the truck theory... But, no matter how hard posters tried, some would just find another way to make their theory fit... At least that's the way I saw it... It was frustrating for everyone. And thank you, for explaining why it was hard for you to abandon the idea...

... All jmo.

Just a note on science, stepfather has spent over 30 to disprove theory of relativity which would change everything and he has had quite a bit of support on it

So my mind tends to go beyond the norm.
 
STOP NOW! Stop bickering, stop chastising others for their opinions and/or comments. Stop it now, or this thread will close.

If a post offended you, your option was to alert it and move past it. It is over now, so move on.

Salem
 
I have a valid question about the truck. Was it confirmed or just speculated that he took the inside door handles off so that the only way to open the door was from the outside or did he have child safety engaged? Small detail, but I just wonder if that's what would have trapped a passenger in the vehicle.
 
I have a valid question about the truck. Was it confirmed or just speculated that he took the inside door handles off so that the only way to open the door was from the outside or did he have child safety engaged? Small detail, but I just wonder if that's what would have trapped a passenger in the vehicle.

I have heard that but I did not hear it as a fact.
 
I have a valid question about the truck. Was it confirmed or just speculated that he took the inside door handles off so that the only way to open the door was from the outside or did he have child safety engaged? Small detail, but I just wonder if that's what would have trapped a passenger in the vehicle.

The child safety lock would only work on the rear doors, IMO. On our Chevy you can also lock the rear windows, probably that way on most. But IF the passenger door was disabled, IMO, he would have had to "modify" it.

I wonder if his sister would have noticed of this? He probably kept her at a distance so she wouldn't notice anything, including stains, holes, or odors.
 
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