The Elevator Video: What's your take?

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by The Cheese, Feb 14, 2013.

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  1. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    I made my fiance watch the video. He thinks she was waiting for someone.

    He also says she didn't know she was being filmed, so she was doing all the stupid stuff everyone does when they're alone.

    Of course, even if she knew she was filmed. She probably didn't dream the entire world would watch this video.
     
  2. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded. I don't necessarily believe she was waiting for somebody. Nothing in the video indicates to me that she feels endangered in any way.
     
  3. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    Userid, but what if the person was someone she didn't fear? IDK, I think it's possible. But, maybe not.

    He did say all of her anti depressants explain why she acts the way she does. He says it's a really high dose for her size.

    She described herself as 'boisterous' in her blog. But, she's thinking o.k. even if she moves around more than some would.
     
  4. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Yes -- it makes more sense if it was someone she trusted -- but personally, I'm set on the belief that she was alone. I could be wrong, but that's just me. If it was someone she trusted -- someone she just met; from the social; staying at the hotel; etc -- that person, too, would not know there was a camera in that elevator. Elisa would've implored him to see why the elevator wasn't moving; to investigate, and he would've gone to see why it wasn't moving.

    Now, you could say it was someone who lived there, who knew the camera was there -- but I don't know, to me, that's pigeon-holing a straw suspect to fit the narrative. This person would have to be a) attractive and cunning enough to interest Elisa..b) live in the building and know everything about it (cameras, water tanks, roof access, etc)..c) would've had to have lived in that building for a relatively long time (to know all its ins-and-outs)..d) who would just so happen to be involved in Elisa's death. It just seems like there would need to be too many variables for a person to be involved.
     
  5. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    Userid, I never thought about it that way.

    Although, I will say this... there is a video of two guys staying at Cecil Hotel. They film around the lobby and the elevator and their room. This video has nothing to with Elisa because it was filmed in 2012 (I think, but well before late Jan. 2013 at any rate). HOWEVER, at one point the guy with the camera goes to point it at his friend who's a little taller than him and gets the camera and says, "Oh, camera."

    So, the cameras in the elevator are fairly noticeable. They were in the elevator with the more updated camera which is not the one Elisa is shown using (trying to use, whatever she's doing). But, there is a photo on here someone took of THAT elevator with its door open and you can plainly see the camera.

    Anyone with nefarious designs could just look up and see them there on their elevator ride up. And to not be associated with Elisa, they wouldn't ride all the way to the floor that they were meeting her on (or alternately, the elevator just randomly dropped them off at the wrong floor as it does it that hotel; and they took the stairs the rest of the way as Elisa had commendeered the other elevator... in this case they weren't on camera mostly because they were over by the stairs anyway). However, what a random visitor might not know is there aren't any hall cameras.

    The random person my fiance postulated isn't on camera because maybe they just shuffled off to their room and had no interest in the elevator anyway. I don't know... I just think it is possible someone was in the hall. Maybe even someone who checked out before Elisa and never realized that talking to/or more likely just being talked to by some random girl for two seconds had any significance. (As in they didn't do anything to her, they just meandered along their way and happened to intersect with her for a very brief time).

    When I first heard about this case, I paid it zero attention because I thought people were talking about Dark Water. Now, to understand this understand I do not have TV so a lot of things that many people talk about that are on TV I am clueless about. I cried when I saw Dark Water because I used to live in an apartment with extreme water issues (no dead bodies).

    For this reason, I do not believe these Baugh people AT ALL. I had a lease and was stuck in that miserable location. But, in a hotel.. anyone would leave. People are not married to their hotel room (unless they live there for some reason, but I mean vacationers). I've worked in a hotel (a palace compared to Cecil Hotel) and people just go where they think they can get the best deal/service/whatever. But, there are some things people will walk out about. Water is top of the list.

    Also, the water is dark then clear in the MOVIE. IRL, I don't think it'd be like that. It'd be either all gross black or clear. Because it comes from a tank. Not city lines. Dirt or whatever has already settled out of it if it can. It's not going to magically leave because you ran the tap because people are running a tap somewhere in the hotel all of the time. Also, A.T. who lives there ran his tap for some reporters and his water was clear. It may have smelled, IDK. But, it wasn't black. And this is a guy who cannot leave because he lives there and people probably aren't lining up to rent to him.

    I ran across Elisa's story somewhere else... I don't remember where and was shocked it was a real case. Then I watched the video. Then I came here (where I am already registered for a while by then) and began reading. I am now on the 4th E.L. thread, page 19. So, I have read many people's theories and opinions and expertise by now. So, it is changing my view a little bit.

    I still am having trouble seeing "psychotic break" and maybe never will. I just don't think she was out of her head. I think she was goofing off at first anyway. The video changes as it goes on, but it mostly looks as spooky as it does due to poor quality of video and the fact it's too slow. So, I am going to give Elisa the benefit of a doubt and say if she was reacting to something it did exist. Maybe there was some unrelated racket going on that caused her to jump out to see if it was coming her way, IDK.

    People say the hotel is noisy. No one is going to dutifully report to the LAPD that they were slam banging junk in their room near the elevator at the same time she does that because, for one thing, we don't even know what time exactly her video was filmed. Or if they did tell police, that just explains the video.. it doesn't explain what happened to Elisa. I don't think the LAPD is interested in the video outside of it helping to find Elisa. They see way weirder stuff 20/day than anything Elisa has done on video any time ever. Since she is alive when she walks off from the elevator, their interest is going to probably be on things we never will see.

    Sadly, I think the Chris Dorner situation impacted Elisa's case. For this reason, it may never be solved unless someone confesses and can prove to the police that their confession isn't b.s. Such as, just an example, maybe anyone who may have been on the scene would know where her glasses are while someone who wasn't there would not know.

    I look at "accidental drowning" as more or less the police do not believe she intentionally committed suicide. And they do not have a clear evidence trail to say someone deliberately murdered her (but there ARE murders that are deliberately staged to look like something else, so by saying this I am not saying definitely not murdered because I just do not know). But that doesn't mean that someone wasn't involved somehow. Just whatever evidence they would have managed to get was either inconclusive or the evidence was long gone by the time the cops got to where it was. Maybe someone in the M.E. office felt "accidental" was a kinder verdict than "undetermined".

    Sorry to go on so long... I have been reading these threads and I really feel for Elisa. I feel she is a good girl who should have never set one foot within the confines of that hotel. I have seen some of the stuff for Stay on Main, so I am sure she expected something very different than what she got although the Stay rooms aren't bad rooms.. they are just INSIDE this scary hotel. Shame on Stay on Main for marketing this place to kids traveling around exploring. That hotel is dangerous! At least kids from the U.S. might KNOW that going in (maybe), but kids from other countries? How would they know?

    I realize Elisa may have some psychological issues. She was on a really high dose of anti-depressants. And I think that made her really animated and maybe even kind of loud sometimes. But, other than that, I think she was pretty normal. Her mania was a lite version and probably led her out to have an adventure traveling around in California. Maybe talking to strangers and trying to make friends. But, I just feel that's all it really did to her. In Hotel Scary As Heck that is probably enough.

    R.I.P. Elisa Lam. And, seriously, condolences to her family. I do not mean anything to upset them.
     
  6. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    Re: High dose anti-depressants - there is something called seratonin syndrome which can occur with high dose ssris combined with another seratonin med like tramadol. However, the symptoms of this are unlike those that Elisa seemed to be experiencing (if she was at all). Out of curiosity, have you tried higher doses of ssris? I can tell you from firsthand experience that you may experience disassociation, or balance issues, or poor memory, but I have not seen any cases where high doses of ssris were nailed as the reason for someone going completely bonkers and drowning themselves in a water tank on the roof of a hotel. So I guess what I'm getting at is that I doubt ssris are the culprit. To me, the scary meds are the amphetamines, which can cause altered moods and mania, but afaik she wasn't on significantly high doses of dexedrine. The argument that Elisa lost it only makes sense to me if you consider it as an unfortunate confluence of many factors (like anxiety being away from home, etc.), not just medications.
     
  7. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    Yeah, I agree. I wonder if her insomnia was acting up and she was running around trying to tire herself out.
     
  8. NirvanaGirl

    NirvanaGirl Member

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    I've been lurking for a while, reading the McStay & McCann threads. I came across this video today & the first thing I noticed is that she's not hitting the proper buttons. She's using the service or maintenance panel & the proper buttons are above her.

    You can see them clearly there at the right height & the reason she's crouching down when she's pressing all the buttons is because it's not meant for guests to use.

    In the Lam video you can just make out that the maintenance panel door is open & folded back on itself against the elevator wall.

    The video of the Cecil hotel tour at 5 mins when they enter the lift, shows this very clearly.

    The proper buttons she should have pressed are above & spread out more.

    Why she would be doing that is anyone's guess but I've not seen this discussed at all on any of the sites I've looked at. Watch the video again & now that you know, you'll hopefully see what I mean.
     
  9. the_chosen_one

    the_chosen_one New Member

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    There is a picture [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8917518&postcount=324"][​IMG][/ame]

    I dont think there are enough buttons above for all 15 floors?
     
  10. NirvanaGirl

    NirvanaGirl Member

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    Hmm, you may well be right but I can't work out why she has to crouch to access the buttons. I've never been in an elevator where the buttons aren't at average adult height. The voice thing where you talk into in case of emergency is even lower down, which makes even less sense.

    There are 2 rows of buttons above the panel she repeatedly presses & they are at normal button height, but as you rightly mentioned, there doesn't seem to be enough of them. Unless the elevator she got into only accessed the hotel floors & not the permanent residents floors maybe & in order to access the other floors you'd have to use the maintenance panel.

    Chinese people are not known for their height, yet she still has to crouch down & if you imagine someone of average height, they'd have to crouch down even further.

    Thinking further about this strangeness of the buttons being so low, the only way it makes sense is if the elevator was designed for a physically handicapped person to use
     
  11. Sunset

    Sunset New Member

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    Some people believe that her hand gestures in the elevator aren't weird at all. I'm one of them. It's not my intention to offend anyone but I do watch a lot of Chinese/Korean movies/dramas and now I've moved to a locality where there is a 50% Chinese population, Many of the people kind of bend down and keep their hand near their chest when saying Excuse me! and then maybe she was moving her hands that the elevator is not closing.

    Believe me, I don't use such hand gestures, but I don't think she has to be mentally ill and her hand gestures are Not human based on that video.
     
  12. keybasher

    keybasher New Member

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    My first thought when i saw the video and that she had used ecstasy in the past she might had a bad ecstasy pill that was cut with a pyschadelic like pcp, ketamine, or dxm. It's also possible she could of been drugged too because these days you can get e or adulterated e in powder form but there's no sign anyone taking advantage of her.

    In The video you see her doing all those movements imo she was probably in the "tripping" state, hallucinating. She also seem paranoid which can be very extreme during a bad trip. I have taken bad e when i was younger and had friends watch over me and calm me down. She was alone and her own and can be very scary. Depending on how much she took the hallucinations can be very powerful and you really lose control of yourself.
     
  13. Sunset

    Sunset New Member

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    That really sounds scary. I have no idea about drugs and their effects coz I've never experienced it.

    But do you think it is possible for her to go in the drugged state to the tank and drown herself?

    Besides, is this case really closed? I really don't feel like this was just an accident.
     
  14. Nickfalzone

    Nickfalzone New Member

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    If she was to have died by "accidental misadventure" (which I do not believe is the case) then my theory is that she died due to her anxiety of being away from her family (many blog entries suggest agoraphobia) combined with some relatively potent drugs. The drug that I've always pointed at is the amphetamine/stimulant that she was taking for ADHD. Paranoia, psychosis, and general dysphoria can definitely be attributed to these types of meds. This med combined with her elevated agoraphobia could well have been the cause of her death - although as we have discussed countless times before, even if she was totally off her rocker from this scenario, it still seems hard to believe that she would walk to the roof, walk up a rickety ladder, and crawl into a water tank. That particular location seems so much more like a hiding spot for a murderer to place a body than a place that someone would confusingly crawl into.
     
  15. Sunset

    Sunset New Member

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    That is exactly what I thought.

    1.That location screams that she was hidden there so that the murderer had enough time to erase evidences and evade the place before the PD even gets to know about her death.

    2. Her tumblr account was being updated even after her death. How? Maybe a password saved account at home and sis is using it?? Weird... Shouldn't the PD scrutinize that and make it inaccessible to others?

    3. If LA wasn't in the itinerary then maybe her virtual friends (tumblr,etc) thought of a meet up there. It is very possible that such talks can be in the private messages inbox.
     
  16. nolachurch

    nolachurch New Member

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    I think I read she was diagnosed as bipolarII somewhere on here, and I know that certain antidepressants for example, Prozac can cause Hypermania in some people,even more so the higher the dosage.. I have experienced it myself. Just a thought. IMO,there is someone following her and there in the hall.
     
  17. KristiDFW

    KristiDFW Member

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    I'm new to this case and have not read everything. Tried to start from the beginning but this video is really tripping me out. So, I want to say what I think I see before it rots my brain. Because I start thinking too hard and wondering too much. My mind will change a hundred times before I'm finished reading through the threads.

    I think she was drunk. I believe she was drinking with someone in a room, someone who probably actually lives there instead of just traveling. I think this person told her of some awesome trick that the elevator would do if you push a certain series of buttons. She went in there, elaborately did it, wondered why the person who told her of this did not follow. Deal is, that person knows where the cameras are. So he lurked behind, he wasn't even close enough to cast a shadow or reflect on the opposite wall. I think he was further down the hall on either side. But someone was there.

    The waving of the hands is pretty much what a good toasted woman will do when she is recanting a story. The counting out on the fingers is her telling this person exactly what she did. "I got in the elevator, I hit so and so buttons, and then I did so and so just like you told me to do. So what now? This is all it does? The door stays open? What a sucky trick!"

    I know that this was probably mentioned, but what floor was that on? So, they don't have anything else of her in the elevator, though she made it to the roof? Her not jumping back into the elevator as it was closing makes me think that she stayed on the floor she started out with. She wasn't planning on going anywhere. I believe she was in for the night hence her outfit, just getting her drink on with a new 'friend'.

    I believe her friend took her to the rook via stairs. I believe she died on the roof, and I believe she was hid in the tank. I can't believe it was suicide. I look at those tanks, and they terrify me. Who would want to go into one alive? Even if they wanted to die?

    The only thing that freaks me out on the video is when the door shuts the first time with Elisa having left the elevator. There is a cut in that video. That door jerks about 6 inches. Like something was cut. Like a chunk was cut. Cut by LAPD? Why can we not see the time on the video?

    Well, I have talked to much and will go back to reading some more. I'm sure I will be back as I have plenty to sift through. But all of the above, is simply my opinion. I have the right to change, debunk, or stand by my words. :)
     
  18. Havok

    Havok New Member

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    Hey everyone. Like Kristi, I'm new to this case/tragedy and like many of you, I was both fascinated and haunted by the elevator video. I tried to look back in this forum about timestamp and slowing issues. Someone put a Youtube video together showing that video had been slowed and that there is at least one time jump. Anyone have an idea about why the video was slowed and why there's a gap missing?

    Please excuse all the "Conspiracy" junk referenced on the video's Youtube page. I'm interested in knowing why the video was slowed and especially why there's a gap in the footage. I'm not at all trying to claim there's some kind of conspiracy or cover-up.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YO4QbaNDjI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YO4QbaNDjI[/ame]
     
  19. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Not too sure why it would be slowed down so much -- perhaps they converted the video (i.e. from a cassette to a file, cd, or vice-versa) which may have slowed down the speed; perhaps it was done deliberately by the police so as to provide a better look at Elisa. The elapsed time is also strange: was it deliberate? was it simply a technical difficulty (shoddy recording/camera equipment in a shoddy hotel like the Cecil certainly wouldn't be a surprise) -- we will never really know.

    I can't think of any logical reason why footage would be deliberately cropped by the police unless I lend all thought to a conspiracy theory, which, as you are, are hesitant to do so -- but it is a good question.
     
  20. numbandnumber

    numbandnumber New Member

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    Hi, I'm new here, having just heard of this case. It seems some people are still talking about this a little bit. I've read almost everything I have found on Elisa's life and death because it confuses me so much and I can't stop thinking about it. There are so many good ideas on this forum.

    This is my take:
    EL strides confidently onto the elevator. She pushes the buttons of multiple the floors because she:
    1. is attempting to evade someone who she does not at this time see as dangerous, but instead annoying, or that she has an intuition to flee from (pushing all the buttons so he doesn't know which floor she's on. Like others have said the idea is in a guidebook to push all the buttons if you're in danger. I for one have never noticed a door hold button that lasted any length of time, being only familiar with a door open button. This is probably the case with her as she seems confused that it isn't moving.) Perhaps she had met him and was in his room and he got creepy. When she left he let her go willingly, but later she had an intuition that she was being followed/watched.
    2. Is going to check out the other floors for whatever reason (needing to use the bathroom, bored, etc) and may be trying an "elevator trick" to get to an otherwise inaccessbile floor- like the roof. Again she doesn't know she's pushing the door hold button unless this is part of the trick. The first time she pushed the buttons she does so at first with a flourish, a sweeping movement of her arm, that seems to me to be saying "oh how aboutttttt here!" There's a confidence in the movement. The next time she pushed the buttons she does so with emphasis.She doesn't realise she has pushed the door hold button necessarily, I believe, because she stands back after pressing the buttons as if she expects it to move. Maybe the same is true about her being in someone's room. Maybe she took an ambien or smething or was drugged, who knows. As far as I can tell the toxicology report was pretty inconclusive due to the fact that she was in water so long, GHB can't be found in the blood sometimes, etc. Just because they didn;t find it doesn't mean it wasn't there...

    ANYWAY, then, in either case, she hears/intuits a presence. She jumps out/peeks/hides in the corner to avoid being seen. When she goes out of the elevator and does the jump, it's to "scare off" the presence, but not a real person, as that wouldn't do any good. She thinks she is just being paranoid, but something tells her she's really in danger. She side-steps to the side and waits on the outside for the elevator to begin to move so that nothing can sneak up on her. She's trying to calm herself down.
    When she returns to the elevator with her hands on her head she is somewhat unsteady. She's freaking out a little bit, but presses all the buttons again, several times. She again waits outside the elevator. She is still hearing/feeling something strange (compunded by her illness/paranoia, for sure) and is weighing whether she should take the stairs (stair wells are scary!)
    The hand movements start because she is at first freaking out. When she begins to "count on her fingers" she is talking HERSELF out of her intuition that something is very wrong. I think the very exaggerated knee-bending is evidence of that. I do not beleive that she is ever talking to a physical person that she can see- maybe unseen others, a person she beleives is hiding, or herself. She then decides to take the stairs.

    Here's the reason I believe this is the way she's acting. I ACT THIS WAY ALL THE TIME, NO LIE. I am 30, but I'm scared of the dark. If there was a video of me walking home one night when a person had followed me and tried to get me to get in his car a couple monhts ago- it would look much like this. After he drove off I made very exaggerated arm movements and I can't say why. I guess it kind of felt like I was disspelling a negative energy. I sang and talked loudly to myself, saying "Oh yeah, you'll git him. Oh he won't like this switchblade in his ball!" while brandishing my switchbalde! HA! But I'm for real. It was both to prepare myself in case he should return and to ward off anyone (real and imagined) that might be lurking. They'd think I'm crazy and leave me alone, I thouhgt. It was also to cheer myself up, and talk myself out of being "paranoid".
    I talk to myself when I enter dark rooms. I also say to "ghosts" (or murderers, whoever I percieve and intuit to be a predator at that time) stuff like "Ok, don't attack me, I'm a good person." I feel around for them and windmill my arms in front of me, I dash for the light switch. I've been doing this since I was a child. I do not have a diagnosed mental illness, but I could probably procure one pretty quick by telling a psychiatrist what I do in the dark. I also have worked with individuals with severe and persistent mental illness for a decade btw, and see bizarre behavior from these individuals constantly, especially on cameras. I have caught co-workers rewinding videos of me acting weird in hallways and laughing at them. ANYWAY...

    I think that the reason this video is significant is not that it has any evidence of her cause of death or who the perpatrator may be. I think it is significant because very few videos like this exist where a person is caught perhaps moments from their death (though this could be hours). I believe EL had a very strong intuition that something terrible was going to happen to her, but that she only gained this insight after the video was underway. I don't beleive she was frightened at the beginning.

    That being said, obviously the police should check her phone records and everyone who stayed on the 14th floor, as it's likely she was visiting someone since she had no key access to those areas. She was spooked by something.
    Sorry for the longest post known to man! I just couldn't keep quiet anymore. Please feel free to prove me wrong on any of these points! I would love more insight as I can't stop thinking about this!!:jail:
     
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