The Establishment Paedophile: How a Monster hid in High Society

[Salem]

If his good side was the authentic one he would have admitted himself to a psychiatric hospital when he first started having these tendencies. Alternatively he could have turned himself into police when the abused his first victim. He is a sociopath with no feelings towards anyone bar himself. Fellow humans, especially children, are all puppets for his amusement. Sociopaths see themselves as the only 'real' people and the rest of us could not possibly be thinking, emotional beings like they are so our needs do not count. We all read his indifference to the little Cambodian girl's fear and pain. That's why I think any good he has done is for his own purposes - for public admiration and to conceal his true nature. Sociopaths certainly feel no need to help anyone out a sense of compassion or moral conviction. They are incapable of those feelings.

The average human does have their good and bad sides. The difference is that non-sociopaths do have a moral sense of right and wrong. Though we don't always do the right thing we have a sense of guilt when he hurt others. Regular people can balance the needs of others against their own and can empathise with another's pain. Even a non-sociopathic murderer can have a good side. They may be loving sons/daughters or parents or kind to animals. They chose to kill out of greed, jealousy, anger but can love and empathise nonetheless. A sociopath like Took cannot. That is why none of his 'good' can be genuine.

Well said Kiki!:clap::clap:

I didn't get past the first page of the article - too heartwrenching for me.

Salem

 

[southcitymom]

If his good side was the authentic one he would have admitted himself to a psychiatric hospital when he first started having these tendencies. Alternatively he could have turned himself into police when the abused his first victim. He is a sociopath with no feelings towards anyone bar himself. Fellow humans, especially children, are all puppets for his amusement. Sociopaths see themselves as the only 'real' people and the rest of us could not possibly be thinking, emotional beings like they are so our needs do not count. We all read his indifference to the little Cambodian girl's fear and pain. That's why I think any good he has done is for his own purposes - for public admiration and to conceal his true nature. Sociopaths certainly feel no need to help anyone out a sense of compassion or moral conviction. They are incapable of those feelings.

The average human does have their good and bad sides. The difference is that non-sociopaths do have a moral sense of right and wrong. Though we don't always do the right thing we have a sense of guilt when he hurt others. Regular people can balance the needs of others against their own and can empathise with another's pain. Even a non-sociopathic murderer can have a good side. They may be loving sons/daughters or parents or kind to animals. They chose to kill out of greed, jealousy, anger but can love and empathise nonetheless. A sociopath like Took cannot. That is why none of his 'good' can be genuine.

I hear you about sociopaths, Kiki. I just don't know that all pedophiles who act on their urges are bonafide sociopaths. I do believe that they are always wrong when they act on those urges.

I am a recovering drug addict who did not check myself in for help when I first started using drugs and engaging in all manner of immoral and criminal conduct in order to fulfill my desires/needs and I am not a sociopath - so I cannot hold a pedophile to a higher standard than I myself was able to achieve. My "good" side is as authentic as my "bad" side. His may be too. It's difficult to know.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I am a recovering drug addict who did not check myself in for help when I first started using drugs and engaging in all manner of immoral and criminal conduct in order to fulfill my desires/needs and I am not a sociopath - so I cannot hold a pedophile to a higher standard than I myself was able to achieve. My "good" side is as authentic as my "bad" side. His may be too. It's difficult to know.

Congratulations on getting clean--that is one tough row to hoe.

I think that all a person needs to do to see why even someone with an authentic good side (such as you) doesn't always act on their good side is look around. If it were that easy to control temptation, there would be no underaged parents, there would be no speeders, there would be no smokers, etc.

While ethics and culture tell us that one temptation such as speeding is relatively minor compared to a temptation like pedophilia, unfortunately the part of the brain that wants that temptation doesn't pay much attention to ethics or culture. The intensity of the urge can be the same, no matter how wrong the temptation is.

If this man is not a sociopath and had a genuinely good side, I feel sorry for him because he must hate himself. If this man is a sociopath and has no authentic good in him, I pity him. That doesn't mean I think he should be turned loose to continue harming children, though.

 

[txsvicki]

I think Took's true self is the one he would hide in secret and what's in the heart. Anyone can do good things, but hurting innocent children seems to be in his heart.

 

[Nugrandma1]

Wow read that and I need to take a shower and clean up from the filth I read. There is no excuse, and I don't care what a swell friend he is to anyone, he's a sick pervert who need to be kept away from children FOREVER. No three to four years. It's in jail for life or just put a bullet in this guys head. Let his friends have him in their homes with their kids or grandchildren.

Some days I get so outraged at what is in the news I lose faith in humanity. It's getting worse every day. As for other aspects of this sick chit's life....who cares. It should have nothing to do with what evil he did. Southcitymom I can't fathom your logic in this sorry.

 

[southcitymom]

Congratulations on getting clean--that is one tough row to hoe.

I think that all a person needs to do to see why even someone with an authentic good side (such as you) doesn't always act on their good side is look around. If it were that easy to control temptation, there would be no underaged parents, there would be no speeders, there would be no smokers, etc.

While ethics and culture tell us that one temptation such as speeding is relatively minor compared to a temptation like pedophilia, unfortunately the part of the brain that wants that temptation doesn't pay much attention to ethics or culture. The intensity of the urge can be the same, no matter how wrong the temptation is.

If this man is not a sociopath and had a genuinely good side, I feel sorry for him because he must hate himself. If this man is a sociopath and has no authentic good in him, I pity him. That doesn't mean I think he should be turned loose to continue harming children, though.

Thank you, Grainne Dhu - and, yet again, I agree with all pieces of your post.

I think most human beings compartmentalize things - their bad behavior from their good, for instance.

The question of whether this man is all good or all bad or a mixture of both is merely academic - regardless of the answer we arrive at, he should be removed from society. His bad behavior is too risky for us - that fact remains constant.

 

[Salem]

He does need to be removed from society. No doubt about it.

And SouthCityMom - I feel fairly safe in saying, after having read so many of your posts, that you would never have "enjoyed" hurting a child or been able to laugh at a child's pain. And if you ever found yourself in such a position, it would be a very rude awakening. And that, to me, is the difference between this and yourself. You have a wonderful and questioning heart. It is true we all have our dark side, but there is a line you just never cross. For me, that line is inflicting violence on another person. Doesn't mean I don't think about it and/or haven't threatened it, it means when I lift my hand to do it, I can not follow through.

Salem

 

[kline]

Ive talked at length with a number of sex offenders over the years in the course of my employment.
(they really like talking about thier favorite subject:themselves)
Ive learned this:
They are well aware what they are doing is wrong.
They have absolutely no empathy towards anyone else.
They enjoy having sex with and abusing children so much
What ever damage they do to a child is trumped by the pleasure it gives them.period.
I can tell we have quite a few advocates of the"There is no Evil it's all relative" school of thought on this thread.
I dissagree but thats what makes for horse races.
But anyway by my tally of this thread, support and sympathy runs 85% Mr. Took and 15% for the 5 year old girl .
So I dont think I'll participate anymore.
But it has been real instructive as to why we continually err on the side of the Mr. Tooks and Joseph Duncans of the world instead of the children.
I used to see this board as a zone of sanity from that mind set.

 

[Taximom]

:clap: :clap:

Ive talked at length with a number of sex offenders over the years in the course of my employment.
(they really like talking about thier favorite subject:themselves)
Ive learned this:
They are well aware what they are doing is wrong.
They have absolutely no empathy towards anyone else.
They enjoy having sex with and abusing children so much
What ever damage they do to a child is trumped by the pleasure it gives them.period.
I can tell we have quite a few advocates of the"There is no Evil it's all relative" school of thought on this thread.
I dissagree but thats what makes for horse races.
But anyway by my tally of this thread, support and sympathy runs 85% Mr. Took and 15% for the 5 year old girl .
So I dont think I'll participate anymore.
But it has been real instructive as to why we continually err on the side of the Mr. Tooks and Joseph Duncans of the world instead of the children.
I used to see this board as a zone of sanity from that mind set.

Thank you, Kline.

 

[Kiki]

Ive talked at length with a number of sex offenders over the years in the course of my employment.
(they really like talking about thier favorite subject:themselves)
Ive learned this:
They are well aware what they are doing is wrong.
They have absolutely no empathy towards anyone else.
They enjoy having sex with and abusing children so much
What ever damage they do to a child is trumped by the pleasure it gives them.period.
I can tell we have quite a few advocates of the"There is no Evil it's all relative" school of thought on this thread.
I dissagree but thats what makes for horse races.
But anyway by my tally of this thread, support and sympathy runs 85% Mr. Took and 15% for the 5 year old girl .
So I dont think I'll participate anymore.
But it has been real instructive as to why we continually err on the side of the Mr. Tooks and Joseph Duncans of the world instead of the children.
I used to see this board as a zone of sanity from that mind set.

What did I say that gave you the impression I felt sympathy for Mr. Took? I'd hate anyone to think I sympathised for a paedophile.

 

[golfmom]

Since this is such a painful subject sometimes any post beyond "hang 'em, shoot 'em, cut off their nuts, etc." is viewed as supporting pedophiles, when in fact posters are just participating in a discussion. It's not you Kiki.

 

[Kiki]

Since this is such a painful subject sometimes any post beyond "hang 'em, shoot 'em, cut off their nuts, etc." is viewed as supporting pedophiles, when in fact posters are just participating in a discussion. It's not you Kiki.

Thank you, Golfmom. :blowkiss: My sympathies are always with the victims and also their families as well as the families of the paedophiles (I couldn't imagine finding out someone you love had such evil within them). Some of those who wrote in this thread have been abused themselves, myself included though not to the degree of the others. I think we all trying to understand why. Why can people like Took do such evil things? I think it is only natural to wonder and question. The world is too horrible and crazy when we don't understand why people do the evil that they do. We still don't understand but I think trying can sometimes make people feel a little better.

 

[golfmom]

As to Took's supporters, I can only imagine that it's hard to acknowledge that someone you know or care about is capable of such horrific behavior. But, what I really got from the article was how incredibly brave his wife was. She risked dragging her own name through the mud in order to let people know about the double standard in treating "high society" versus "just plain folks" for the SAME crime.

 

[Kiki]

I agree and I am sorry I overlooked this earlier. What a wonderful and brave woman. She is a heroine. :clap:

 

[liltigress]

Terrific post. How do you determine that Took's good side is the pretend one and his bad side is the authentic one? Is the evil we do stronger than the good we do? Could it be that Took, like all humans, is an authentic mix of good and bad?

I prefer that people see my good side also. Am I pretending just because I have a very real bad side? So many questions!!!:crazy:

SCM, I have conversed with pedophiles, but during conversations, they think I am a child. I know for fact and by proof that they don't give a crap about me. They only want to find a sure-fire way to get me alone and do unspeakable, horrific things to me and have gone into detail of the things they will do.. thinking I am only a vulnerable, helpless, innocent child of 12 or 13 years old!

As I have said, pedophiles are sociopaths. Maybe the following will help you better understand that there is no good side...

Profile of the Sociopath

* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

 

[Salem]

Thanks for that post liltigress! Pretty much lays it out. Also, thank YOU for helping to stop some of the 's. I admire you, it must be a very difficult job. I'm sending you positive thoughts of strength and "good cunning" to help you in your efforts!

golfmom - thank you for your reply to kiki also. I did not read the article, couldn't get past the first page. But - I don't see any support here for Took. I see some philosophical questions about good v. evil, but no where did I see any one supporting this creep. We have to question and try to understand, because if we don't we will never get a grip on what makes these creeps tick and then we will never find a way to stop them before they do damage. Locking them up for life or shooting them is all fine and dandy, but before we get the opportunity to do that, someone has suffered at their hands. Maybe more than one person. It would be nice to find a way to stop it BEFORE any child has to suffer.

Salem

 

[liltigress]

Thanks for that post liltigress! Pretty much lays it out. Also, thank YOU for helping to stop some of the 's. I admire you, it must be a very difficult job. I'm sending you positive thoughts of strength and "good cunning" to help you in your efforts!

Thanks for those positive thoughts, Salem. There is still much work to do in all this, but it's a fight worth fighting. If I'm taking up a predator's time, I feel I am keeping him from at least one child.

 

[southcitymom]

....I don't see any support here for Took. I see some philosophical questions about good v. evil, but no where did I see any one supporting this creep. We have to question and try to understand, because if we don't we will never get a grip on what makes these creeps tick and then we will never find a way to stop them before they do damage. Locking them up for life or shooting them is all fine and dandy, but before we get the opportunity to do that, someone has suffered at their hands. Maybe more than one person. It would be nice to find a way to stop it BEFORE any child has to suffer.

Salem

Terrific post, Salem, and it's nice to know I'm not the only person here who sees no support for what Took did anywhere on this thread.

I appreciate that we can have some genuine conversations about the nature of the evil he committed that are a bit more thoughtful than

I HOPE THIS BURNS IN HE** AND ROTS FORVEVER. TORTURE IS TOO GOOD FOR HIM.:furious::furious::furious::furious:

Not that there's anything wrong with emoting understandable outrage. Just that there's room for other discussion as well. I'm glad we aren't afraid of the other discussion. Engaging in it doesn't mean we support people who do terrible things that hurt other people.

 

[Taximom]

I don't think it's support for Took here that is in question. It's the comments about possibly feeling sorry for him or wondering about his good side that bother me. And yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying:

I HOPE THIS BURNS IN HE** AND ROTS FOREVER. TORTURE IS TOO GOOD FOR HIM.:furious::furious::furious::furious:

but it sure seems to bother some people and I don't understand why. IMO anyway.

 

[southcitymom]

I don't think it's support for Took here that is in question. ......

You may be correct, but at least one poster had that question when they posted the following:

"......by my tally of this thread, support and sympathy runs 85% Mr. Took and 15% for the 5 year old girl....."

so naturally people commented on that.

As I said in my earlier post, people emoting negatively about Took are expressing unerstandable outrage and I have no problem with that. I just like taking the discussion in different directions as well. I do not see the downside in learning as much as we can (good bad and indifferent) about him.

I do not think I will ever understand why people think you cannot have sorrow for "victims" and "perps".