The FEDS

Discussion in 'FLDS Raids and Related Items' started by golfmom, May 3, 2008.

  1. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

    Messages:
    7,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm just speechless here. The basic argument not to start a Federal Task force to investigate FLDS is that bigamy, polygamy, rape and incest are all state level crimes. However, that's intentionally turning a blind eye to a bunch of other areas that the Feds could certainly step in and investigate.

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275674,00.html

    Federal authorities have been probing allegations of crimes involving the Fundamentalist LDS Church and its leader Warren Jeffs for years — but have been unable to develop enough probable cause to launch a full-scale investigation or bring charges.
    .............
    In an extensive interview with the Deseret News on Thursday, Tolman and Tim Fuhrman, the special agent-in-charge of the Salt Lake City office of the FBI, detailed their efforts to investigate crimes within the FLDS Church. They also spoke against the need for a federal task force on polygamy-related crimes, despite a push by the U.S. Senate majority leader and the Utah and Arizona attorneys general.

    "The crimes that are being alleged or that there is suspicion, these are predominantly state crimes," Tolman said. "I think it's a rush to judgment to think that a federal task force is the answer."
     
  2. Loading...


  3. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

    Messages:
    23,795
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I had a thought about this last night. Not only is Utah state authorities against a task force, but the Utah FBI is also against it. The FBI served a search warrant in Texas FLDS soon after the raid. Since the warrant was sealed, there is no way to determine what that is about. Could it be that Utah FBI already has something in progress? That perhaps they fear that if a federal task force is set up that it might delay whatever they are working on while they are organizing the task force?
     
  4. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

    Messages:
    23,795
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Then again we have this:

    Spurned by Texas, a spokesman for a polygamous sect is now reaching out to the governor of Utah for help.
    FLDS member Willie Jessop this week sent Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. a letter extending an invitation to visit the YFZ Ranch in western Texas. He also asks Huntsman to intervene on behalf of Utah residents whose identities are disputed and whose children were taken during an April 3 raid at the ranch.
    Lisa Roskelley, spokeswoman for Huntsman, on Friday confirmed his office received the letter.

    snip... Jessop said at least 10 children in Texas custody are residents of Utah and were visiting the ranch with their parents.
    The letter also asks the governor for help getting Utah birth certificates and driver licenses recognized as official documents.

    snip....Utah residents, the letter said, are "currently being held hostage by the state of Texas. . . . Without your leadership and personal intervention in this matter, the parental rights of every Utah family is at risk."
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9140851
     
  5. FlowerChild

    FlowerChild Peace And Love

    Messages:
    1,669
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How may of the Feds in the Utah office are LDS?? The LDS has historically "avoided" pushing ANY significant actions against the FLDS...out of shame I believe. They are afraid that the association and historical links between the current LDS and the more "old school" FLDS will raise questions and create negative opinion with the PUBLIC about the LDS - even tho they are a separate and different church. The two churches do share the same origins and MANY of the beliefs are the same - the FLDS just seems to take everything to the extreme edge Most people have no clue about EITHER the LDS or FLDS and what the differences are - they might indeed assume that the two share more beliefs than they do. The LDS has historically FOUGHT against ANYTHING that would bring attention to the FLDS - thinking that the negative perception of the FLDS would make people question the LDS.

    IMO the LDS MUST stop trying to hide their polygamous past and stop trying to hide the beliefs of the faith - people only fear what they don't know. Instead of HIDING and trying to deny the past and the tenets of their faith, the LDS should encourage open discussion and honesty - I think the public capable of understanding the differences if presented in a simple and open manner. And the LDS MUST OPENLY and LOUDLY DENOUNCE the FLDS and ANY belief that is ILLEGAL or ABUSIVE. They LDS CHURCH and all of it's members should publicly support ANY action by the FBI and LE to STAMP OUT the illegal and abusive FLDS as they currently exist.

    My Opinion
     
  6. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

    Messages:
    7,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This whole thing has been made into such a political hot-potato.
     
  7. Floh

    Floh Former Member

    Messages:
    7,748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I agree with all you've said here. time for the Lds to stand up and be counted and really say out loud they do not agree with the Flds!
     
  8. Floh

    Floh Former Member

    Messages:
    7,748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can only imagine what would be if Mitt Romney was still in the running for president!
     
  9. Leila

    Leila Active Member

    Messages:
    12,378
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    36
    It IS a political hot potato, and and election year. I think a lot is dependent on what happens in Texas. The officials in other states - Utah and Arizona in particular - are going to sit on their hands and do nothing. If the Texas LE has enough solid evidence and brings charges, I think we'll then see the other states jumping on the bandwagon. They're only going to support something they think can be won and something they think their constituents will support.
     
  10. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

    Messages:
    23,795
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting interview with Utah attorney general Shurtleff. Critical of the raid, says it isn't possible in Utah- gives explanation, what they are doing to combat problems etc, and an interesting attitude about whether the raid will hold up to constitutional challenges. (I think he may be watching that and possibly his attitude will change if it holds up.)

    Shurtleff says he and Goddard would welcome a federal task force!


    U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's very public comments that he was "embarrassed" for Utah and Arizona, accusing them of doing nothing about polygamy-related crimes, infuriated the attorneys general.

    "Harry Reid is full of crap," Shurtleff fumed in a TV interview.

    The two states fired off a four-page letter. Goddard went so far as to send a foot-thick package of documents to Reid's office, detailing the polygamy-related convictions and victim-outreach efforts. Shurtleff said they buried the hatchet when Reid called, saying: "I want to kiss and make up."

    Reid said he would push for a federal task force to investigate polygamy-related crimes, something Shurtleff and Goddard support.

    "All is forgiven if he will help us get active federal involvement in cases that they can investigate," Goddard said.

    Utah U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman said he did not think a federal task force was necessary, since the majority of the crimes being investigated were state-level offenses. Tolman revealed to the Deseret News that he and the FBI have attempted to build a Mafia-type RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) case against the FLDS Church and Jeffs, but it has not been successful because of a lack of witnesses or hard evidence.

    Shurtleff said Reid pledged to the attorneys general that he would get them in contact with top-tier Justice Department officials. Shurtleff said he is still waiting for that phone call.

    http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695276307,00.html
     
  11. mollymalone

    mollymalone Former Member

    Messages:
    2,576
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :rolleyes: Attempted to build Rico charges but there's a lack of evidence and witnesses? GMAB. There are former male members who were excommunicated who were involved in the day to day runnings of the sect. The former long time mayor for one, and many others. There's witnesses. Former female members who've left the group may not have witnessed every transaction but as wives they sure as hell were privy to or experienced a lot of things going on. Their testimony could yield some of those charges!!

    Looking at all of the articles in the follow the money thread, and the court hearing/conviction thread, it's obvious there's a LOT of information out there about their crimes, some of which have already been proven in courts.
    They can take that information and work with it.
     
  12. Pepper

    Pepper Former Member

    Messages:
    4,778
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If the Madame who just committed suicide could be convicted on the RICO statute, you would think convicting these guys would be a cake walk.

    http://www.ricoact.com/
     
  13. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

    Messages:
    7,188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't forget that it was the IRS who finally caught Al Capone too.
     
  14. Pepper

    Pepper Former Member

    Messages:
    4,778
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
  15. SewingDeb

    SewingDeb "Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."

    Messages:
    8,957
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Pepper,

    In the comments section, it is mentioned that HarryReid and Orrin Hatch are both Mormons. It will be interesting to see how that plays into the investigation.

    It does seem like the problems with the trust and the government contracts (where child labor may have been used) etc. will come out.
     
  16. Pepper

    Pepper Former Member

    Messages:
    4,778
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, I knew that Reid and Hatch were both LDS, and that will be interesting. Another Mormon is Mark Shutleff (sp?) the Utah AG. There might be others.

    The relationship between LDS and FLDS is strange - sort of like having a crazy embarassing relative. Everyone knows you are cousins, but you don't want everyone to think you are anything like the crazy cousin.
     
  17. SewingDeb

    SewingDeb "Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."

    Messages:
    8,957
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good analogy Pepper.
     
  18. yolorado

    yolorado New Member

    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Excellent post and I totally agree. I have very close family and friends who are LDS but I must say that my opinion of the church has very much diminished through this whole affair. It's obvious that LDS officials winked and nodded for years in AZ and UT when abuses were occurring and victims were either pleading for help or afraid to bring abuses to the attention of authorities thinking it would do no good. Many Mormons seem to still support the FLDS even today. AZ and UT do seem to be making some attempts to reign-in this oganization (at long last), which admittedly is difficult when so many within the group seem to be reluntant to speak out against their perpetrators, and when the organization somehow has so much cash to fight with. Still, it's clear that much lawbreaking has been ignored because LDS state and local officials have decided to allow it. It seems as if their own history of polygamy and is origins as doctrine in the church have rendered them ineffective to truly disallow it. I always had a really good impression of Mormans, their support of families and their religion, until now. I'm afraid they are losing my good opinion.
     
  19. yolorado

    yolorado New Member

    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Texas raid would still be front page news and mentioned during every network and cable news show. There would be calls for investigation out the wazoo and every FLDS abuse charge or idocincracy would be used in attempts to drive the Republican Party ticket into the ground! If McCain somehow puts Romney on his ticket, we'll find out.
     
  20. yolorado

    yolorado New Member

    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hope that the IRS is looking at the FLDS. :clap: It sounds like they have not been paying people wages as should have, which might very well result in them not having not properly collected withholding taxes, social security and medicare, let alone unemployment insurance. :furious: Seems as if they've bartered a share in church property for labor and employed children in ways that very probably violated the law. Perhaps tax or labor violations could put impact the tax exempt status of the church or even subject the organization to criminal prosecution. :behindbar
     
  21. cutter russ

    cutter russ New Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    and what about the possible welfare fraud...I used to work with medicaid and food stamps and I often had to go to court as a witness when people were tried...some of the fraud was in the five figures. I think they paid over two million for the ranch.....somebody had some money......
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice