The gravestone.....A clue?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by BlairAdele, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. BlairAdele

    BlairAdele Justice 4 Jonbenet

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    One of the most intriguing things I have read about this case is the information about the gravestone.On the stone,it said that Jonbenet died on the 25th of December 1996.She was found dead on the 26th at 1pm.
    The Ramsey's claimed to have returned from their dinner at the Whites that night at around 10pm.If Jonbenet died on the 25th,that means she was killed between 10pm and 12am.The murder could have happened anytime between 12am and 6am-the early hours of boxing day morning.
    How did John and Patsy Ramsey know that their daughter before midnight?
     
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  3. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    BlairAdele,

    I agree with you that the murder, judging from what we know, more than likely took place after midnight -- making the date of death 12/26/96, not 12/25/96.

    And since the Ramseys claim they don't know what happened after everyone was in bed by about 10:30 P.M., how would they know JonBenet died on 12/25/96? Obviously, they wouldn't know.

    Here's my guess on why they selected 12/25/96 as the date of death on JonBenet's gravestone:

    As you may know, my theory about this crime includes a fifth person in the house that night, and that person was about the same age as Burke. Burke was four weeks away from being 10 years old, and thus not legally culpable in Colorado. But what if the fifth person in the house that night was born on December 26, and would be 10 years old and therefore legally culpable if the crime was committed on 12/26/96 -- but would be only 9 years old and not legally culpable if the crime was committed on 12/25/96?

    Were the Ramseys trying to shield someone, a kid, from prosecution just in case the crime was traced to children?

    IOW, what were the birthdates of some of the boys in the neighborhood? There were a lot of boys living nearby. Was one of them born on December 26, 1986?

    BlueCrab
     
  4. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    But what are the chances of letting Burke let a friend spend the night on Christmas? Or do you think this boy was supposed to go to Michigan with the family?
     
  5. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    IF THE RAMSEY'S ARE INNOCENT - THEY HAVE GIVEN AN INNOCENT EXPLANATION. They wanted the world to remember that evil lurks in this world even on Christ's birthday. I don't think there is any clue in that at all.
     
  6. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    blueclouds,

    So the Ramseys LIE to honor Christ's birthday?
     
  7. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    I'm not certain they're guilty BlueCrab. I lean towards the intruder theory BUT I do not support the steps the Ramsey's took to "protect" themselves.

    IF IF they did not know when JB died, I too would have put December 25th on my child's gravestone. Just my :twocents:
     
  8. Voice of Reason

    Voice of Reason New Member

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    if you want to know what was actually KNOWN about time of death, you have to look at the autopsy report. according to that, JBR died on 12/26/96 @ 13:23. is this right? isn't 13:23 really 1:23pm? are they saying JBR died in the afternoon? that makes no sense to me. can someone enlighten me? am i misreading this document?

    there are other documents at the smoking gun that you may or may not have seen and may be interested in...
     
  9. poco

    poco A cat will blink when struck with a hammer.

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    Yeppers, you are correct Voice - the autopsy says date and time of death as 12/26/96 at 1323 (or 1:23 PM).....
     
  10. RiverRat

    RiverRat Patsy Ramsey to the Left

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    That is when her body was found.
     
  11. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    The typist used the approximate time the body was discovered (12/26/96 at 1:23 PM) because the coroner refused to estimate the time of death, even though the time was actually 1:05 PM when John and Fleet discovered JonBenet in the wine cellar.
     
  12. RedChief

    RedChief New Member

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    It's not true that the coroner refused to estimate the time of death.

    "I consider estimation of time of death to be an interpretative finding rather than a factual statement, and it is not this office's practice to include this estimate as part of any autopsy report," Boulder County Coroner John Meyer said.

    He said the estimate is interpretive and something he would share only on the witness stand.
     
  13. RedChief

    RedChief New Member

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    In my opinion there is absolutely nothing germane about the date on the monument.

    If the Ramseys had chosen Dec. 26, y'all would be seeing that as meriting condemnation or extremely relevant somehow.

    So, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
     
  14. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    Oh my goodness, Poco! Totally off topic here...but that pic of MJ....couldn't you at least have posted one with him wearing his pajama pants? LOL
     
  15. RiverRat

    RiverRat Patsy Ramsey to the Left

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    John has this to say about the date chosen for JonBenet's headstone:

    "frankly her body was cool when I found her, the arms were stiff. And I wanted to tell the world that you killed my daughter on Christmas Day. Don't ever forget."
     
  16. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    Actually John Meyer did a rush job on the autopsy and was slammed by his peers over it. He didn't take ocular fluid temp or liver temp to determine the TOD.

    I have to wonder who the "you" is in John's statement.

    He obviously knows who killed her IMO. That's why he says "you"...and who would forget they killed her over the x-mas holiday?
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    TRANSLATED: " I forgot to do it."

    The time of death estimate is a fundamental finding on any autopsy report, and is especially important when a criminal investigation is warranted.
     
  18. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    I don't believe he "forgot" BC. I think he didn't bother or care to do so and was peeved at his holiday time off being interrupted.

    Did you also note that on the autopsy he isn't listed as Pathologist, but as Coroner?
    There is a difference and no, the BCCO never did return my call to confirm his credentials as a certified pathologist.
     
  19. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Seeker,

    Dr. John Meyer is no longer the coroner for Boulder County (which is an elected office), but he still works there as deputy coroner. On the Boulder County government page Meyer is listed as a board certified forensic pathologist.
     
  20. LazyCat08

    LazyCat08 I may not be Glenn Beck, but I am a thinker......

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    "the autopsy says date and time of death as 12/26/96 at 1323 (or 1:23 PM)....."


    I'm guessing that this when the body was offically declared dead at the scene by the proper authority.....
     
  21. RedChief

    RedChief New Member

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    Righto.





    I would have to contest the notion that a precise estimate of the time of death is a fundamental finding on all autopsy reports, though I don't disagree that knowing exactly when someone died would be useful information in a murder investigation, such as the JonBenet Ramsey case.

    There are plenty of autopsy reports that don't give a precise estimate of time of death, because that information is not possible to provide. They list time of death as the time the body was discovered and/or pronounced dead, by proper authority, as Brie has indicated.

    JonBenet's autopsy report does list time of death. This is for legal purposes. I suppose, to be more precise, Meyer could have stated "no later than..."

    Time of death estimates can be way off and even lead to erroneous arrests.

    Below is a URL which discusses this very topic:

    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/truscott/time.html

    The discussion at this webpage is about erroneous estimate of time of death, based on examination of stomach contents.

    Cool....
     

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