The heart

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by armywife210, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. armywife210

    armywife210 Active Member

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    I am a scrapbooker, so naturally I do a lot of photo editing.... lightening, darkening, B&W etc... I have saved the photo of Jonbenet's hand and done a lot of altering to the color and size.... just the color and size with different programs. It doesn't look anything like a heart to me, no matter how hard I try to look at it like it is. And certainly not a heart drawn by a child..
    I have a six year old, so I always have six year old little girls from the neighborhood parading through my house. I do a lot of crafts with them, and I have never seen any of them draw a "floppy" heart (which is how I draw them... big ol fat short ones). Even if all of the characteristics for a heart were in the one on her hand, it would still be dramatically different then any of the drawings I have seen done by a six year old. Even when my older daughter (who is now 12) used to do "six year old crafts" with her friends, the characteristics of a heart were always the same. They were long, skinny, and had a very sharp point on the bottom. The "crevice" at the top was very deep. They try to be very precise at that age. When my daughter draws on her hand, it's the same thing... she tries to be precise.
    But even without knowing that, it still doesn't look like a heart. a G, maybe, but more like a C- (because I dont see the line going from the bottom of the C up to the - to make a G) that was gone over with a red pen a couple of times and maybe after it sat for a bit someone made a half attempt to remove it with saliva and the other hand.... yet it doesn't look old to me. It's far too dark in some areas to have naturally faded.
    Maybe it means something, maybe not. But it certainly doesn't look like a heart. What do you think?
     
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  3. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    My almost six year old can draw a regular heart..long an skinny...but, someimes she tries to get "fancy"..and she draws them a little bit more rounded, with one side higher than the other. She drew one for her daycare teacher, and she thought that it was a BOOT...LOL But, to answer your question, no...I do not think that it looks like a heart all all. But, I have no way of knowing JonBenét's artistic abilities...so maybe she drew it, or maybe her friend Daphne drew it (like Patsy stated may have happened...her interview). All I know that I don't believe in the intruder theory...so, I don't believe that an intruder drew it.
     
  4. armywife210

    armywife210 Active Member

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    no, I am very much so of the RDI theory. And I am certainly not saying that any intruder did it. However, they took an autopsy photo of it. I think they asked Patsy about it... I read it in some transcripts somewhere.... so if she was really innocent and knew her husband was too, wouldn't she have asked every one of her friends that were at that party, and their kids, if they had seen it? I haven't seen any documentation anywhere saying that Patsy or John did anything like that. I know that if I were them, I would have been scraping the bucket for clues.
    Yes, the long and skinny applies with this age group. I have even noticed it in every one of my daughters girl classmates..... forgot to add that. I really to believe that at this age, the mostly stick to long and skinny. Wasn't there some artwork of Jonbenet's online somewhere? I shall search some more, but I was certain I saw it somewhere.
     
  5. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    Yes, Patsy and John both said that they had never seen the heart. But, Patsy goes on to say that Daphne and JB were playing together, and that maybe they drew on each other hands. She sort of shrugs it off though....I believe, to throw suspicion on the "intruder". John even said that he was making some sort of necklaces with JB, while sitting on the floor...the evening of the 25th, and that he didn't notice the heart. Yeah, right. Like an intruder is going to take the time to search for a red pen to draw a heart on JB's hand. Give me a break!!
     
  6. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    armywife210,

    I agree the mark on JonBenet's hand looks nothing like a heart drawn with a red pen. Despite a thorough search of the house no red pen was ever found.

    IMO the mark on the palm of her hand is a contusion.

    BlueCrab
     
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  7. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    From JR's Interview....(here they are talking about the heart on JB's hand).

    20 LOU SMIT: Do you have any red paint in
    21 the house or would there be a marker like that?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, we probably do. We had
    23 pencils and magic markers all over the place.

    Good thought about it maybe being a contusion. I am pretty sure though, that the experts would have been able to tell the difference between a contusion and a red ink mark. I don't know though...they way they fouled up this case...ANYTHING is possible.
     
  8. armywife210

    armywife210 Active Member

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    I agree. In the autopsy it was photographed. Apparently it was thought inportant enough for that. I certainly think that they would noticed if it wasn't ink, and rather a contusion.
    I can see how it could look that way. But I think that when the autopsy was performed it would have been recorded as such.
     
  9. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    Oh totally. There are experts that can tell the difference between a contusion and red ink.....I imagine that it wouldn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure it out, as long as you had the right tools. (They may have even rubbed a little off, after the photo was taken....and THAT would have been a big clue right there, that it wasn't a contusion).
     
  10. armywife210

    armywife210 Active Member

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    Do you think it means anything?
    Not in and of itself.... but that the Ramsey's weren't trying to track down where it came from and who did it?
    Like I said, I would be all over everything like white on rice if I were the Ramseys... trying to find a clue. That they weren't doing that, to me, means that they knew there was no intruder to be found.
    Also, do you find it odd that they would let Jonbenet go to bed with so much jewelry on??? The way my little girl sleeps, I would never let her wear jewelry at night. She is liable to put her own eye out. If were worth anything, I would be concerned that she would break it. If it weren't I would be concerned that it would leave those ugly marks on her skin as she sweat... you know, the green stuff. YUCK that is so gross! Besides, no matter what it was worth, six year olds love their jewelry and wouldn't want it to break! At my house it's the end of the world if a cheap necklace breaks.
     
  11. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I kinda think it does look like a red ink heart. It may have been drawn by someone holding her hand, and drawn upside down- she may have drawn it herself, she may have been moving her hand while it was drawn- we just don't know. I also think the coroner could tell the difference between a red ink line and a cut or contusion. Contusions often have bruising around them, like the mark on her posterior shoulder, which I have also seen described as a contusion. To me, the heart is an odd shape for a contusion. Now, if it was a cut- like with something sharp- you'd have the red line, but it would be scabbed over or a line of dried blood which could be certainly discerned by a coroner.
    As far as the jewelry, I though the same thing- when my daughter was young I never allowed her to got to bed wearing any jewelry, especially a necklace. It makes me think even more that JBR did not actually go to bed that night. BUT if you look at the Christmas morning picture of PR & JBR that was just posted on another thread here (the one showing PR's firm grip on her daughter) you can clearly see JBR wearing what looks like the exact same gold chain and cross. She has her pink Christmas morning pajamas on and her hair in down long and looks uncombed. So either she was allowed to sleep with it Christmas Eve, or she opened it that Christmas morning and put it on immediately.But I did think I read where JBR got all her jewelry gifts (the gold cross and chain, ID bracelet from Aunt P, and the gold ring) a few days early so she could wear them to the party at her house on the 23rd.
     
  12. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me New Member

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    The possibility of this being a C/heart on JonBenet's hand reminded me of this passage from DOI-

    John would bring JonBenet, who was three-and-a-half at the time, to the hospital and she'd sit on my bed. One day I remember her coming while I was having a blood transfusion to raise my white blood cell count. JonBenet squeezed the little crimson bag and followed the tube that ran up my arm and disappeared under my hospital gown to the Porta-cath in my chest.

    "Where's that going, Mommy?" she asked.

    "Into my body," I answered.

    "That's going to your heart!" JonBenet sounded exuberant. "It's going to make you feel much better!" (pg. 84, hb version)


    -Tea
     
  13. Nehemiah

    Nehemiah Active Member

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    From the 1998 interview between Trip DeMuth and Patsy:


    4 TRIP DeMUTH: How do you know there

    5 was a heart on her hand?

    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it was on

    7 there in the morning, that's why.

    8 TRIP DeMUTH: And you remember it

    9 from the next morning?

    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

    11 TRIP DeMUTH: You saw it the next

    12 morning?

    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

    14 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say the next

    15 morning, did you remember it from the previous

    16 evening?

    17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) (No

    18 response.)
     
  14. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    Interesting...when she says "I saw it there in the morning"...obviously she means when she saw the body BEFORE the 911 call and BEFORE her husband carried her daughter up from the basement, which was 1pm and NOT in the morning.
     
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  15. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    I agree...lol...I would have been all over everything like white on rice too (I haven't heard THAT in a long time). This is just ONE more thing that any innocent parent would have done, that the Ramsey's did NOT do....and just another thing that leads me to believe that they are GUILTY as SIN. You are right about that...and Patsy was so nonchalant about well..."maybe Daphne did it". MAYBE? Did she not ask Daphne?? Apparently not. (And they both knew about the heart, before the interviews, because they had read about it...I believe in a magazine or newspaper...they CLAIMED that they didn't read the autopsy report...which ...IMO...is a crock or bull.) I would have been asking the people that were at the White's Christmas party, about it too. John tried just a little bit too hard to pin that heart drawing on the intruder. Like an intruder would have taken the time to draw that....and like an adult male wouldn't be able to draw a heart that doesn't look like a C. Give me a break. :rolleyes:
     
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  16. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    Yep, you did read that, because I read it too.

    Either JB drew that heart, or her little friend Daphne drew it.....one or the other. The Ramsey's want us to believe that the INTRUDER did it. How ridiculous is THAT...he kills her, and says..."Hmmmm...okay...I have killed her...so, what else could I do to get back at John, since I hate him so much? OH, OH...I know....I will draw a red heart on her hand". Totally, utterly, ridiculous.
     
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  17. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    Hmmm...interesting. IF this really took place. The Ramsey's lie so much, you just never know.
     
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  18. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    And THIS is STLL the 1998 interview...the very next day, after she said that she saw the red heart.


    1 THOMAS HANEY: Today is Wednesday,
    2 June 24, 1998 and the time is approximately
    3 9:03 a.m. Again we are present in the
    4 Broomfield Police Department. Present is
    5 Patricia Ramsey (INAUDIBLE) and how did you
    6 spend yesterday, how did you feel?
    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Fine, great. I
    8 think, a couple of things that I thought about,
    9 that I wanted to clarify maybe. You were asking
    10 about -- particularly about the pictures of
    11 JonBenet in the basement, and I remember that I
    12 had taken some Xerox copies of her portfolio
    13 pictures, you know, studio head shots. And
    14 there was a paper cutter down there, and that I
    15 used, and that --
    16 TRIP DeMUTH: That could be it?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: That could be it.
    18 TRIP DeMUTH: I haven't seen the
    19 pictures.
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, I wasn't clear
    21 whether you were talking about picture of her in
    22 the laundry room, or pictures of her located in
    23 the laundry room. And I think that I read
    24 somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
    25 And truthfully, I can't -- I am having trouble
    0207
    1 distinguishing whether I have read about that or
    2 whether I actually saw that. I just recently
    3 read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
    4 that was on there. And I just, you know, now I
    5 have a picture of a heart on her hand and I
    6 can't remember whether I actually saw it or --
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
    8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
    9 color that you recall?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
    11 heart in my mind.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know if
    13 you read it?
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just to be
    15 perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.

    Okay, so NOW she didn't see it, but she believes that she read about it in the autopsy report....which I might add, she says in this same interview...(although, I believe a different day)....that she never read the autopsy report, because it was just too hard. This is what I think....IMO...John and Patsy were discussing these interviews, at the end of the day...when they were together. (Patsy states in her interview that she and John NEVER discussed the interviews...but yet, John states that they DO discuss them). Patsy tells John that she was questioned about that heart, and that she tells the interviewer that she saw it that morning. John says...something that might have went like this..."WHAT? ARE YOU NUTS? Don't tell them that....act like you have never seen it before. Okay, since you went and screwed this up, we have to fix it. When you go in tomorrow, tell them that you messed up, and that you were mistaken...that you didn't REALLY see the red heart, but that you think that you probably read about it in the autopsy report, and thats how it got in your mind. We have to point the finger at an intruder, anyway we can".
     
  19. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    I can't see a heart in the drawing either. It just looks like JonBenet (probably at the Whites' party where she did some crafting with Daphne) scribbled in her palm with a red pen, like kids sometimes do. Or she did try to draw a heart but couldn't do it.

    What 'mark' exactly do you mean?
    Picture of JB's hand:

    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandheart.jpg
     
  20. goddess

    goddess Loves a Good Mystery

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    It looks like a sideways c with two little lines for eyes, to make a smiley.

    = )

    To me at least.
     
  21. Ames

    Ames New Member

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    OMG....I see that too!!! I had never thought about that before...thanks for pointing that out. It looks WAY more like a smiley, than a heart!!! The "eyes" of the smiley are darker and more prominent. You may be ONTO something here.
     
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