The heart

[icedtea4me]

Hmmm...interesting. IF this really took place. The Ramsey's lie so much, you just never know.

I don't think it's so much a matter of whether the hospital story really occurred or not. I do, however, think that Patsy wants the reader to pick up on the symbolism contained within the story and make the connection to JonBenet's hand.


-Tea

 

[Ames]

I don't think it's so much a matter of whether the hospital story really occurred or not. I do, however, think that Patsy wants the reader to pick up on the symbolism contained within the story and make the connection to JonBenet's hand.


-Tea

OH...yeah....she is doing that FOR SURE!!

 

[goddess]

I simply dont put credence into what PR has to say(or had to say as it is now).

I can totally buy the idea kids getting ahold of pens at a party in which I figure the adults were a bit preoccupied and thus the kids got a bit more unsupervised freedom, and then writing on their hands.

I nannied my neice, and I would draw the push me button on the top of her hand then a smilie or heart or a saying(WOW! or I LOVE U!!) all the time.

What I recall reading, is that JB was sad or crying at the Whites party. Could someone have drawn the smilie face to cheer her up?

 

[Ames]

I simply dont put credence into what PR has to say(or had to say as it is now).

I can totally buy the idea kids getting ahold of pens at a party in which I figure the adults were a bit preoccupied and thus the kids got a bit more unsupervised freedom, and then writing on their hands.

I nannied my neice, and I would draw the push me button on the top of her hand then a smilie or heart or a saying(WOW! or I LOVE U!!) all the time.

What I recall reading, is that JB was sad or crying at the Whites party. Could someone have drawn the smilie face to cheer her up?

Good question!

 

[DeeDee249]

Does anyone here recall seeing anywhere something about PR sometimes drawing a heart in JBR's hand as a symbol for "My heart is in your hands"?
I don't remember if I read it or not, but the thought is in my head and I don't know where I got it from.

 

[armywife210]

Does anyone here recall seeing anywhere something about PR sometimes drawing a heart in JBR's hand as a symbol for "My heart is in your hands"?
I don't remember if I read it or not, but the thought is in my head and I don't know where I got it from.

Wow, that would be a huge responsibility for a little girl for sure!!!!!!!! The sarcastic side of me wants to say "NO PRESSURE!"
Whether it was done or not, it seemed like an awful lot of pressure was laid on that little girl.

 

[armywife210]

Ames, I suppose we don't know anything about WHY she was sad??? And what's the deal with 911 I wonder....
Somehow a few months before her death, she seems to have taken on a different "air" about her in photos and videos I have seen.... maybe it's my imagination, but it's almost like inside she was sad, and somehow more sophisticated than her time.
Of course, I could just be picking up on that because the whole derned thing makes me sad and in some of the later photos and video she seems like she was coached to look darn right provocative.

 

[Ames]

Ames, I suppose we don't know anything about WHY she was sad??? And what's the deal with 911 I wonder....
Somehow a few months before her death, she seems to have taken on a different "air" about her in photos and videos I have seen.... maybe it's my imagination, but it's almost like inside she was sad, and somehow more sophisticated than her time.
Of course, I could just be picking up on that because the whole derned thing makes me sad and in some of the later photos and video she seems like she was coached to look darn right provocative.

I have never thought that she looked like a happy child.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ames, I suppose we don't know anything about WHY she was sad??? And what's the deal with 911 I wonder....
Somehow a few months before her death, she seems to have taken on a different "air" about her in photos and videos I have seen.... maybe it's my imagination, but it's almost like inside she was sad, and somehow more sophisticated than her time.
Of course, I could just be picking up on that because the whole derned thing makes me sad and in some of the later photos and video she seems like she was coached to look darn right provocative.

One thing that occurs to me is that if there was a "change in JBR", and some of PR's friends had mentioned also that she seemed "different"- this could be an indication that sexual abuse had started at that point or the abuse had escalated at that point to something that made JBR frightened, worried, unhappy, stressed, uncomfortable or all of the above. Something in the child's life so deeply distressed her as to make it evident to people outside the family.

 

[goddess]

The faux 911 call from the Ramsey's party, two nights before the murder? IMO, testing the response time of the police, or something like that. Not sure, but it seems like that could be something.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, that. But more likely something happened to cause someone to make that call. Even a child can dial 911.

 

[armywife210]

Yes, that. But more likely something happened to cause someone to make that call. Even a child can dial 911.

Children are often more likely to call 911 then adults. They are taught in school that if there is an emergency, you must call 911 immediately. Adults tend to "weigh" things more than children. Do I really need to call for this???? That type of thing. Kids.... heck, homework could be an emergency! lol. A friend of my husbands recently told me a story about his little boy.... the guy was outside mowing the lawn. The little boy asked his daddy to play with him. The daddy said "I can't now, I am mowing the lawn"... his son went in the house and called 911 and said "my daddy wont play with me" The 911 operator explained that that wasn't an emergency. The little guy said "it is too a mergency. you grown ups are crazy!"
I think Jonbenet called. There are a few reasons. She might have wanted to "go through" with the call and ask for help, but then chickened out and hung up. She could've wanted to know what would happen if she did call. She could have been caught and quickly hung up. Maybe she heard someone coming and hung up.

 

[armywife210]

One thing that occurs to me is that if there was a "change in JBR", and some of PR's friends had mentioned also that she seemed "different"- this could be an indication that sexual abuse had started at that point or the abuse had escalated at that point to something that made JBR frightened, worried, unhappy, stressed, uncomfortable or all of the above. Something in the child's life so deeply distressed her as to make it evident to people outside the family.

Right, this is precisely what I was getting at, but I have never seen where it was written that JB seemed different. I was just going on gutt feeling when I looked at her photos. Do you have links to that? Was it in a book? A change in personality is a HUGE sign of sexual abuse. Especially if that change is about secluding herself, "dullness" in the personality, and general unhappiness.
I also wonder what medications Patsy was on. I am almost positive that after her chemo she was on medications. My dad and cousins were after their chemo sessions were over.

 

[DeeDee249]

I am very good at remembering what I read, but sadly not good at remembering where I read something!
I do believe it was JBR's dance teacher or her pageant coach who made a comment about JBR seeming "different" when she returned from some trip, pageant or event. Maybe that'll jog someone's memory here.

 

[Ames]

Yes, that. But more likely something happened to cause someone to make that call. Even a child can dial 911.

I might be mistaken...but I thought that it was one of the Ramsey's friends that had called 911 by mistake....(for some reason, I keep thinking it was Fleet White, and that he had said that he had meant to call 411 for information).

 

[armywife210]

I might be mistaken...but I thought that it was one of the Ramsey's friends that had called 911 by mistake....(for some reason, I keep thinking it was Fleet White, and that he had said that he had meant to call 411 for information).

I guess that wouldn't be that weird... if he were talking to someone or something while dialing. It's just the timing that makes it weird, Ironic.

 

[DeeDee249]

I might be mistaken...but I thought that it was one of the Ramsey's friends that had called 911 by mistake....(for some reason, I keep thinking it was Fleet White, and that he had said that he had meant to call 411 for information).

See- that's the problem. There were several different "innocent" explanations for that 911 call on the 23rd. First it was supposed to be because someone's mother was ill. Now it was a dialing error. Standard police procedure is they have to GO IN the house and investigate even a mistaken 911 call. They didn't.

 

[trixie]

Right, this is precisely what I was getting at, but I have never seen where it was written that JB seemed different. I was just going on gutt feeling when I looked at her photos. Do you have links to that? Was it in a book? A change in personality is a HUGE sign of sexual abuse. Especially if that change is about secluding herself, "dullness" in the personality, and general unhappiness.
I also wonder what medications Patsy was on. I am almost positive that after her chemo she was on medications. My dad and cousins were after their chemo sessions were over.

According to Patsy in her police interview she wasn't taking anything at all at the time. Not even supplements. Now you just have to decide whether or not you believe Patsy!

 

[DeDee]

From the 1998 interview between Trip DeMuth and Patsy:


4 TRIP DeMUTH: How do you know there

5 was a heart on her hand?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because it was on

7 there in the morning, that's why.

8 TRIP DeMUTH: And you remember it

9 from the next morning?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

11 TRIP DeMUTH: You saw it the next

12 morning?

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

14 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say the next

15 morning, did you remember it from the previous

16 evening?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.) (No

18 response.)

And THIS is STLL the 1998 interview...the very next day, after she said that she saw the red heart.


1 THOMAS HANEY: Today is Wednesday,
2 June 24, 1998 and the time is approximately
3 9:03 a.m. Again we are present in the
4 Broomfield Police Department. Present is
5 Patricia Ramsey (INAUDIBLE) and how did you
6 spend yesterday, how did you feel?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Fine, great. I
8 think, a couple of things that I thought about,
9 that I wanted to clarify maybe. You were asking
10 about -- particularly about the pictures of
11 JonBenet in the basement, and I remember that I
12 had taken some Xerox copies of her portfolio
13 pictures, you know, studio head shots. And
14 there was a paper cutter down there, and that I
15 used, and that --
16 TRIP DeMUTH: That could be it?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: That could be it.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: I haven't seen the
19 pictures.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay, I wasn't clear
21 whether you were talking about picture of her in
22 the laundry room, or pictures of her located in
23 the laundry room. And I think that I read
24 somewhere talking about the heart on her hand.
25 And truthfully, I can't -- I am having trouble
0207
1 distinguishing whether I have read about that or
2 whether I actually saw that. I just recently
3 read parts of the autopsy report, and I believe
4 that was on there. And I just, you know, now I
5 have a picture of a heart on her hand and I
6 can't remember whether I actually saw it or --
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you this.
8 Do you remember what color it was? Is there a
9 color that you recall?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I just see a red
11 heart in my mind.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know if
13 you read it?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just to be
15 perfectly fair, to say that I saw it on her.

Okay, so NOW she didn't see it, but she believes that she read about it in the autopsy report....which I might add, she says in this same interview...(although, I believe a different day)....that she never read the autopsy report, because it was just too hard. This is what I think....IMO...John and Patsy were discussing these interviews, at the end of the day...when they were together. (Patsy states in her interview that she and John NEVER discussed the interviews...but yet, John states that they DO discuss them). Patsy tells John that she was questioned about that heart, and that she tells the interviewer that she saw it that morning. John says...something that might have went like this..."WHAT? ARE YOU NUTS? Don't tell them that....act like you have never seen it before. Okay, since you went and screwed this up, we have to fix it. When you go in tomorrow, tell them that you messed up, and that you were mistaken...that you didn't REALLY see the red heart, but that you think that you probably read about it in the autopsy report, and thats how it got in your mind. We have to point the finger at an intruder, anyway we can".

This red drawing on JonBenet's hand resembles the drawing of Burke's in the far right corner of this article.

 

[Anyhoo]

This red drawing on JonBenet's hand resembles the drawing of Burke's in the far right corner of this article.

DeDee, I agree with you perfectly about PR having to "clean up" her previous statement about seeing the heart in the morning. Exactly something they would do, IMO. But as for the actual significance of the heart drawn on her hand, I have no idea what it means.