The Importance of the Pineapple

[rashomon]

Except he didn't base his opinion on what's in the media. He has had first hand, in person dealings with them. As has Jeanne Boylan who also believes they are innocent.

Did Walsh say he studied the forensic and other circumstantial evidence? Or did he just meet with the 'grieving' Ramseys and they succeeded in pulling the wool over his eyes, like they did with so many other people?

 

[sharpar]

I dont know why they believe they are innocent . But they are only opinions
and its possible that they are wrong.

 

[tipper]

Forgot Ressler who also, by December 2002, had apparently come around to the idea that he doubted the family (or a stranger) was involved.

 

[armywife210]

hey everyone. I havent been posting for awhile, but I have been reading these past few days...
When a person vomits, the entire contents of the stomache don't come up. I think that if she had eaten that cracked crab and it hadn't had time to exit her system through digestion, some trace of that crab would still have been in her body... whether she vomitted or not.
Thoughts?

 

[Eagle1]

Manson himself had killed people too. Not in the Tate/LaBianca murders, but on other occasions.

You sure? You have a source? Because his "m.o." was to have others do his killings for him. And if he'd directly killed someone before, he would have been prosecuted. There's no statute of limitations for murder.

 

[rashomon]

You sure? You have a source? Because his "m.o." was to have others do his killings for him. And if he'd directly killed someone before, he would have been prosecuted. There's no statute of limitations for murder.

Not all killers get caught. Spahn Ranch was an isolated spot where a lot of things went on. I think it is in Bugliosi's book Helter Skelter that Manson in all probability killed shorty Shorty Shea, whose body was never found. Other people killed were Gary Hinman, John Philip Haught and attorney Ronald Hughes. Manson could very well have killed them himself too. Aside from Manson getting a kick out of bringing others to follow him so blindly that they would kill for him, I don't think it really played too much of a role for him if he committed the murders himself or let others do it.

 

[sharpar]

Forgot Ressler who also, by December 2002, had apparently come around to the idea that he doubted the family (or a stranger) was involved.

Who is Ressler ?
If it wasnt family and wasnt a stranger - then who ? A friend ? Staff ?
I am interested in why the family gets a pass . I see nothing that excludes them from being the culprits .

 

[tipper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ressler

Robert Ressler is a former FBI agent and author. He popularized the term serial killer and played a significant role in the psychological profiling of violent offenders in the 1970s.

He served in the US Army before joining the FBI in 1970. Ressler was recruited into the Behavioural Science Unit that deals with drawing up psychological profiles of violent offenders who typically select victims at random, such as rapists and serial killers. He came up with the term "serial killer" both from the fact that the repeated nature of homicides committed by such individuals reminded him of television serials he watched as a child, and from the term "crimes in series" as used by British detectives.

In the early 1980s, Ressler helped to organize the interviews of thirty-six incarcerated serial killers in order to find parallels between such criminal's backgrounds and motives. He was also instrumental in setting up Vi-CAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program). This consists of a centralized computer database of information on unsolved homicides. Information is gathered from local police forces and cross-referenced with other unsolved killings across the USA. Working on the basis that most serial killers claim similar victims with a standard method (modus operandi) it hopes to spot early on when a killer is carrying out crimes in different jurisdictions. This was primarily a response to the appearance of nomadic killers who committed crimes in different areas. So long as the killer kept on the move, the police forces in each state would be unaware that there were multiple victims and would just be investigating a single homicide each, unaware that other police forces had similar crimes. Vi-CAP would help individual police forces determine if they were hunting for the same perpetrator so that they could share and correlate information with one another, increasing their chances of identifying a suspect.

He worked on many cases of serial homicide such as Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Chase.

Ressler retired from the FBI in 1990 and is the author of a number of books about serial murder. He is active giving lectures to students and police forces on the subject of criminology, and in 1993 was brought in to London to assist in the investigation into the murders committed by Colin Ireland.

 

[sharpar]

Tipper:

Okay - thanks for the info . I didnt recognize his name.

Again, without any indication of why he thinks this, then its only another opinion.

I can respect his former position, but it doesnt mean he is automatically correct. What he has to say though could be quite interesting.
I am not so die hard that something couldnt change my mind but so far
no argument or observation has.

 

[Eagle1]

I expect Ressler is retired now, correct? Just guessing. You don't hear of him as much any more as formerly.

 

[sharpar]

yes, though occassionally he did come out to work on a case as stated in the original post. Doubt he does that much anymore now though.

 

[capps]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ressler

Robert Ressler is a former FBI agent and author. He popularized the term serial killer and played a significant role in the psychological profiling of violent offenders in the 1970s.

He served in the US Army before joining the FBI in 1970. Ressler was recruited into the Behavioural Science Unit that deals with drawing up psychological profiles of violent offenders who typically select victims at random, such as rapists and serial killers. He came up with the term "serial killer" both from the fact that the repeated nature of homicides committed by such individuals reminded him of television serials he watched as a child, and from the term "crimes in series" as used by British detectives.

In the early 1980s, Ressler helped to organize the interviews of thirty-six incarcerated serial killers in order to find parallels between such criminal's backgrounds and motives. He was also instrumental in setting up Vi-CAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program). This consists of a centralized computer database of information on unsolved homicides. Information is gathered from local police forces and cross-referenced with other unsolved killings across the USA. Working on the basis that most serial killers claim similar victims with a standard method (modus operandi) it hopes to spot early on when a killer is carrying out crimes in different jurisdictions. This was primarily a response to the appearance of nomadic killers who committed crimes in different areas. So long as the killer kept on the move, the police forces in each state would be unaware that there were multiple victims and would just be investigating a single homicide each, unaware that other police forces had similar crimes. Vi-CAP would help individual police forces determine if they were hunting for the same perpetrator so that they could share and correlate information with one another, increasing their chances of identifying a suspect.

He worked on many cases of serial homicide such as Jeffrey Dahmer and Richard Chase.

Ressler retired from the FBI in 1990 and is the author of a number of books about serial murder. He is active giving lectures to students and police forces on the subject of criminology, and in 1993 was brought in to London to assist in the investigation into the murders committed by Colin Ireland.

Seems pretty impressive to me. I wonder if he thought the Ramsey's were guilty,if it would still get a "...it's just his opinion,he could be wrong ..." response.

 

[sharpar]

That is the whole problem for me - I dont see how he could not come to the R's are guilty. Yes it works both ways - I am not a psychic and I wasnt there but based on what is actual fact its the conculusion I draw.

I have been straight forward about my thoughts and why I have the opinion I do. Very few of these LE / Expert folks have done that. I want to know WHY they think x y or z . Then I can decide whether to agree with them or not.

Yes his experience and training are impressive but its subjective and therefore its possible that its not correct. I want the statements citing guilt or not elaborated upon.

As Dennis Miller would say - its my opinion and I could be wrong.

 

[rashomon]

I was actually referring to the strength required to tighten the ligature to such an extent that it cut right into the skin around her neck.
Yes, but this was more than a skull fracture, it was more like a skull crushing - take another look at the autopsy photo - well beyond Patsy's capability IMO.

The neck front region (throat, thyroid) being soft, there should be have been no problem at all in tightening that ligature. And part of the skin swelling around the rope could be post-mortem swelling.
And if the object hitting JB's skull was heavy and hard enough, crushing her skull with it was very well in Pats'y capability. Dr. Spitz, who demonstrated with the maglite how JB was probably hit, did not say a word about PR not being physically able to do this.

 

[Ringfinger]

Aired November 12, 2002 - 21:00 ET
http://www.acandyrose.com/11122002lkl-linwood.htm





Patsy says: 'I did not put the bowl there. I would not do this setup.' Interesting use of language, one has to speculate just what kind of setup she may entertain ?


.

I think that she means the glassware for hot tea and the large spoon for the bowl. JR seemed genuinely stumped by these.

 

[Ringfinger]

I feel like people aren't giving enough importance to this pineapple. It seems to be an extremely important clue.

 

[andreww]

I feel like people aren't giving enough importance to this pineapple. It seems to be an extremely important clue.

IDIs don't like to talk about pineapple. As Lou Smit said, it's the big bugaboo.


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[OliviaG1996]

I feel like people aren't giving enough importance to this pineapple. It seems to be an extremely important clue.

I agree. IMO, the glass with the tea bag sitting next to the bowl of pineapple is even more important.

 

[Ringfinger]

I agree. IMO, the glass with the tea bag sitting next to the bowl of pineapple is even more important.

When I was younger, I would make hot tea in a glass like that (it had a handle, right?)

What do you think of the glass and oversized spoon/ bowl of pineapple? One idea would be that it was a kid serving themselves. On the other side of the coin, it could be an intruder who doesn't know their way around the kitchen. Although that does seem a bit outlandish.

 

[Ringfinger]

IDIs don't like to talk about pineapple. As Lou Smit said, it's the big bugaboo.


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I am trying to make a fair opinion. As I get further and further into this, the IDI theory becomes harder to accept. Still, I am open to everything. Your post made me wonder if there is a clue that RDIs don't like to take on, or tend to ignore. Something that would be as hard to get around as the pineapple.