The Innocence Project has now accepted Darlie's case

Discussion in 'Darlie Routier' started by JenniferTx, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. 29 Acacia Road

    29 Acacia Road Member

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    A few thoughts,

    If we believe there was an intruder, if they were there to burglarize the place then upon seeing there were people home, most perps would flee the scene.

    If the intruder was there to rape DR, then in my opinion they would secure DR first so she could not move or make a sound, then quickly do the same to the kids before going back to spend time raping DR.

    If the intruder was after the kids (for sexual purposes), then upon finding DR was present killing or securing her would be the absolute first thing to be done, before taking time with the kids.

    The order in which things happened just does not support an intruder in my opinion, for whatever reason they were there. Even if an intruder was purely on a killing spree, it still makes sense to kill DR first.

    If DR supporters are so confident in her innocence then why don't they enlist the US number 1 wrongful conviction lawyer, Kathleen Zellner. Her team will review a case for $3000, but if she finds anything pointing to guilt she won't take the case.

    Would DR take a brain fingerprinting test to establish her innocence or guilt? My guess is no way she would.
     
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  2. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    I just listened to True Crime Garage’s recent 2 part podcast about Darlie’s case. This seems like the most recent thread about it but not sure.

    Anyway, I lived in Dallas at the time, and I remember the local news playing the video of her laughing and dancing on their graves nightly. I was sure she did it. I haven’t followed the case, but after listening to the podcast I read through some of these threads and caught up a little. I’m not sure at all now that she did it. I’m not sure that she didn’t either, but I’m actually shocked that she was sent to death row with the evidence they have and don’t have. I have reasonable doubt for sure.

    Just because they don’t have forensic evidence of an intruder doesn’t mean 100% there wasn’t one. And I don’t think they looked very hard to find one. MOO There were a couple of serial killers/rapists in the area at the time with the same MO. I wonder how hard they looked at them. Also what about the lady in the neighborhood who said one night earlier she had been downstairs sleeping on the couch and a man tried to break into her house? This info is from the podcast—I need to look into that. The sock down the street is weird and doesn’t make sense to me if staging the scene. They really think she left her house all bloody and ran down the street in the middle of a double murder to drop a sock? No. No one can convince me of that. That’s just dumb. Her wounds were not superficial. They weren’t fatal, but they very well could have been w/in mm.

    My main problem is motive. There isn’t one. She was so full of rage at Darrin that she killed two of their kids? Why? What did he do? And if this was the case, would he really have stuck by her all these years when it would’ve been a heck of a lot easier to move on? Money? No. They got $5000 insurance per kid. They spent $14,000 on their funerals. She didn’t seem to have a boyfriend, which IMO is one of the biggest reasons mothers kill their kids. Plus she didn’t kill the baby so..That also doesn’t make sense if she didn’t want to be a mother anymore or was overwhelmed.

    PPD and specifically Postpartum Psychosis makes the most sense to me if she did it. A psychotic break could account for memory loss about the murders. But still it’s weird because usually even with PPP they seem to know they did it but have really crazy reasoning. I’m thinking of Andrea Yates who drowned all her kids because she thought they were possessed and she was saving them.

    I don’t see how Darrin had anything to do with it, because Darlie would know (she was there!) and why would she take the fall? Makes no sense.

    There are so many questions here, and I have no idea if she did it or not, but the evidence they had doesn’t make me sure enough to sentence someone to death. One of the jurors has said if he had seen the TWO HOUR video of a somber, crying Darlie leading up to the silly string part he wouldn’t have convicted her. WOW. That was a mistake for the defense not to show it IMO.

    Anyway, just my thoughts. People here seem to be really sure of her guilt or innocence, but I’m not sure how that is. There wasn’t much actual evidence IMO.
     
  3. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    Also I listened to the 911 call, and I don’t find it incriminating. She sounds truly hysterical like I would imagine I would be, and she only mentions touching the knife when they tell her not to touch it. She says she already did.
     
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  4. alwaysonmymind

    alwaysonmymind Well-Known Member

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    Darlie is exactly where she should be.
     
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  5. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    You might be right, but I would hope if I were convicted of and sent to death row for such a horrific crime they would have more evidence than they do here. Blood spatter experts and staged crime scene experts are considered junk science now, and it’s subjective stuff. Even whether the sink was cleaned up is disputed. None of that is hard evidence. They had no other suspect, and she couldn’t be ruled out ( how could she?—she was there). Her behavior was odd, but that could be for a million reasons. I’m not saying she’s innocent, but I sure can’t say for sure she’s guilty.
     
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  6. Catmommy

    Catmommy I see more than I say

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    I have a feeling that if a video existed showing Darlie committing this atrocious crime there would still be those who argued for her innocence. Just a feeling.
     
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  7. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that's there's evidence of an intruder who killed the boys as Darlie claims?
     
  8. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    What is your explanation as to why she didn’t try to help Damon, who was lying there gasping for breath, begging to his mommy for help. What kind of mother would not put her baby first. How could she not at least go to him to hold and comfort him. She wouldn’t even touch him! I can’t even imagine that cold hearted behavior towards ones dying child!

    I mean, My God, he was suffering in excruciating pain and agony right in front of her. And she cared more about herself and running her mouth on the phone than anything else. She was waiting for him to die! Dear God, help us all. That, to me, tells the whole story. She’s a coldhearted, soulless, murdering ***.
     
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  9. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    Well if there was they obviously didn’t collect it. Intruders might not leave any evidence, especially an experienced one like the serial killer that was operating at that time. There was also a serial rapist who was breaking into homes and even using knives from the home he broke into. If LE thoroughly investigated these possible suspects, then that’s great. But I haven’t seen anything that they did.

    Honestly I don’t want to argue for her innocence. I always thought she did it, but after looking more into it I just don’t think it’s as cut and dry as I thought. For a death penalty case that bothers me.
     
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  10. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    Going by the 911 call, she was either in total shock and absolutely hysterical, not in any condition to comfort anyone OR she was just acting that way. Obviously if she was acting and she killed the boys, she’s cold hearted and soulless like you said. But if her account was true, I wouldn’t find her behavior on that call unusual. Shock can do that. So that call itself tells me nothing. That’s what bothers me about this case. Her guilt seems to be based on subjective feelings and a lot of circumstantial stuff and a lack of evidence. Maybe that’s enough, but for something this serious that bothers me. People throughout this thread have insisted she wasn’t convicted on the silly string video, but I have to disagree. One of the jurors has come out to say had he seen the rest of the video he would not have convicted her.
     
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  11. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    I have no reason to believe that LE didn't do a good job in collecting evidence in this case so I will have to say that in my opinion there was no intruder.

    Reasonable doubt isn't that it's possible there was an intruder who killed the two boys but left no evidence and somehow manipulated Darlie into leaving incriminating evidence pointing to her guilt. JMO
     
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  12. TessDeco

    TessDeco Active Member

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    If there's still evidence to be processed in Darlie's case, then they should move forward with it but I think Darlie will need to show significant new evidence before she'll win a new trial.

    I wonder if there's enough problems with Darlie's case to get her off death row, though, and maybe that's their goal. Were Drake's media appearances meant to soften the public's perception of his mother? Public support of death row cases is important to Texas politicians, so how do the people of Texas feel about executing Darlie Routier now, after all these years? If they set an execution date, how would the public respond? I have no idea.

    I keep reading that IP lawyers will review Darlie's case but this thread was started in 2019 and here we are. Maybe the remaining untested evidence is all that Darlie has left to buy time. Who knows? At some point, time will run out for Darlie in the Texas justice system, if something doesn't change for her.

    All just MHO.
     
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  13. MeadowMuffin

    MeadowMuffin Well-Known Member

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    Oh my goodness. There are too many rumors and falsehoods here to unpack. Has everyone read the transcripts and the appeals? I have read every posting here on Websleuths. My opinion is that if there is a person who thinks there is insufficient evidence to convict really owes it to themself to study the case. Please read it all to learn the truth about the "serial killer" and woman who had knocking on her window, and the juror who said he never saw the bruises on her arm, and rapists in the neighborhood who used a knife from inside the house etc etc. From I believe the first appeal :
    The second paragraph of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals' opinion dated May 21, 2003. There, it states in pertinent part, "The appellant does not challenge the legal or factual sufficiency of the evidence to support her conviction…". This means that her attorneys conceded that sufficient evidence supported her conviction, a conviction which was entered on the jury's guilty finding that only could have happened if the jury rejected her intruder defense.
     
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  14. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    Routier v. State
    Annotate this Case
    112 S.W.3d 554 (2003)

    Darlie Lynn ROUTIER, Appellant, v. The STATE of Texas.

    No. 72795.

    Court of Criminal Appeals of Texas.

    May 21, 2003.

    The evidence that supports the verdict shows that the appellant stabbed and killed her two sons, Damon and Devon,[1] while her husband and infant son were asleep upstairs in the house. The appellant does not challenge the legal or factual sufficiency of the evidence to support her conviction, and therefore, it is not necessary to set out the evidence in detail.

    Routier v. State
     
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  15. alwaysonmymind

    alwaysonmymind Well-Known Member

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    Thinking of Damon & Devon today.
    Today marks 25 years.
     
  16. novo8085

    novo8085 Well-Known Member

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    Wow....
     
  17. MattC44

    MattC44 Well-Known Member

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    You're not going to learn the case listening to a podcast. There's far too much misinformation out there. The only way to learn the case is to read the transcripts, appeals, and view the exhibits. The reason for that is it's a circumstantial case. Meaning there's no direct evidence; ie, a confession (from Darlie) and no eyewitness (again Darlie). However, there's overwhelming evidence that points only to Darlie which is frankly way too long to list. Because you have to be aware of all the evidence until you understand how it all ties together. There is no smoking gun, she was convicted on the totality of the evidence.

    The nature of circumstantial evidence is that it can be isolated, poked holes in, and argued. Except when all put together it forms a cohesive story.

    For instance, the bread knife from the kitchen wood block cut the garage screen most likely from the outside (Charles Linch testimony), and the screen debris on the bread knife was upheld on appeal. So, what intruder will do that? It's staged. Moreover, the screen popped right out because the neighborhood kids would pop it out often to run in and get popsicles (Darin testimony).

    We also know the butcher knife from the kitchen is consistent with all the boy's wounds (ME testimony) and hence the murder weapon. So, we're asked to believe an intruder somehow acquired the bread knife, cut the screen, stepped through the T-cut in the dark of night (2-2:30 am), in an unfamiliar home with a severely cluttered garage and disturbed nothing. There was even a large animal cage blocking a portion of the window (deterrent). This intruder then entered the kitchen, put the bread knife in the wood block and selected the butcher knife attacked the children with deep penetrating fatal wounds, compared to superficial slashes on the only adult. Stole nothing, departed the same way he came in, knocking a wine glass off the wine rack and despite blood being dripping down the utility room door, no blood or any trace of this man could be found in the garage, backyard, fence, and the broken gate was undisturbed. All fingerprints, DNA, footprints, blood all accounted for and no sign of an intruder.

    OK, then we have Darlie who had access to all the knives. She can't keep her stories straight, not just that night but days afterward. She says she was stabbed on the couch, yet the majority of her blood was found at the sink compared to an inappreciable amount of her blood on the couch. She said she followed the 'intruder' to the utility room where he dropped the knife, yet since the intruder broke the wine glass, she'd walk right through it, and then said she picked up the knife and returned the same way.

    The evidence however shows no cuts in her bare feet from the glass despite walking over it twice. Her blood was found under the glass shards. No sign of a bloody knife dropped on the floor in or around the utility room. She also claimed the intruder knocked over the vacuum cleaner, but again, her blood and bloody footprint was found under the vacuum cleaner, as well as on the handle. Wheel marks through her blood.

    Then there's the old holey sock that was from the rag bin in the utility room. It has Darlie's DNA in the inside toe area and the boys' blood on the outside. It implicates only her. No one else can be forensically connected to it. It was found 75 yards down the ally in back of the home. Barbara Davis ran there and back in 50 seconds, and she was 20 years older than Darlie at the time.

    Not only was Darlie's blood found at the sink, but so were Devon and Damon's and in the drain. Moreover, there was a clean up attempt revealed in and around the sink (faucet, cabinet...), with Darlie's bloody footprints found on the floor.

    We're already seeing a much more revealing story. Darlie staged the garage screen cut and returned the bread knife. Darlie put on the sock, grabbed the butcher knife and stabbed both boys. She then went outside and planted the sock. She washed the knife in the sink, then cut herself at the sink. She then noticed Damon had moved across the family room, stabbed him a second time inflicting his fatal wound(s), finished staging the scene, broke the wine glass, screamed and called 911.

    There's cast off blood on her sleep shirt supporting she stabbed the boys, and unexplainable practice cuts that correspond with none of her injuries.

    Then came Darlie's many lies as the evidence was revealed. Despite being given a prior opportunity to add to her statement, her story expanded. She testified she was wetting towels and placing them on the boys. It was her attempt to explain away the sink cleanup. Except, no towels were found that contained the boys' blood diluted or otherwise. Moreover, you can't hear water running on the 911 call, and no officer or paramedic observed her doing this or found towels on the boys. She also never attempted to give first aid to her children.

    She wrote her friends telling them she knew who did this and blamed Glenn Mize in letters from prison, only to have Glenn walk into court where she cleared him. She accused Gary Austin also, and lied about him being able to see her in the hot tub (enclosed spa) from his balcony. She insisted on the 911 call she said "I woke up. I was frightening." Which is ridiculous. She clearly says, "I woke up. I was fighting". Which was one of her original stories before she changed it to not fighting, but Damon waking her as she followed the intruder.

    This is only a bit of the evidence as there was much more. Alan Brantley, FBI Behavioral Science Unit described the staging in depth. Tom Bevel expanded on the blood evidence. The medical personnel explained Darlie's superficial wounds which she continues to exaggerate. The ME's explained the boys' deep deadly wounds. Forensic personnel analyzed and presented their findings. It all illustrates that the evidence points only to Darlie. No one outside the home can be placed there, and Darin's story was consistent and followed the evidence.

    The silly string tape was simply there to refute her character because the defense had portrayed her as the perfect loving Mom who was devastated. The police surveillance tape (alleged 2 hour somber Darlie tape) was provided to the defense who chose not to show it. We've never seen the full tape, so I don't know what is on it. Obviously, the defense found it unhelpful to Darlie.

    The juror you cite was Charlie Samford. He was approached by the defense 5 years after trial. The defense allegedly introduced and argued new evidence to him outside of court, prosecutors and the deliberation process. That's against the rules of evidence, and his affidavit was tossed by the appellate Judge and the defense was lectured. Charlie returned to the Darlie's guilty camp long before he passed away.

    Motive of course isn't required for conviction, and prosecutors didn't tie themselves to any one motive. Toby Shook was clear they didn't know the motive, which isn't uncommon.

    MOO.
     
  18. happyday

    happyday Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your response and for taking the time to type all that out! :)

    Clearly I need to do my due diligence in order to form a proper opinion on this case. Like I said haven’t followed it, I just remember in Dallas back when it happened, and seeing questions come up about it now sure is interesting.

    I’m glad to have the Innocence Project looking into it. I know nothing seems to be going on with that, but with the last year being what it was I think a lot of things were stalled and delayed. Who knows. Like others here I doubt anything will come of it, but if there are questions at all they should be investigated—especially in a DP case. It’s such a tragic and senseless case. If she did indeed do it like she was convicted of, I’m still just baffled as to the why. I’m sure we’ll never know.
     
  19. cami

    cami Keep your fork......

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    Really? The 911 sealed her guilt for me. I don't hear hysteria, I hear anger and shouting. And she drops the fake hysteria to angrily make statements to Darin. Such as "someone just walked in here and intentionally did it Darin" I also hear her trying to convince Darin it wasn't her.
     
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  20. cami

    cami Keep your fork......

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    No I don't
     
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