The IRA/UDA connection

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by thentherewere4, Jun 3, 2008.

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  1. thentherewere4

    thentherewere4 New Member

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    Hi I am new to your community,but familiar with the topic.Sorry to open a thread with such a long op but it might be of some significance:

    "Masons under anti-terror surveillance after UDA infiltrates Scottish lodges"
    Sunday Herald
    02 July 2006

    MASONIC halls throughout Scotland are under covert surveillance by anti-terror police after the outlawed loyalist paramilitary group, the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) successfully infiltrated the controversial secret society.
    David Begg, the grand secretary of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, told the Sunday Herald that Freemasons have been advised by police that lodges throughout the country – particularly in the west of Scotland – are under surveillance by officers targeting the UDA. One Fife lodge has been penetrated by loyalist terrorists who used the premises for fund-raising and operational planning. For more than 18 months, UDA member Steven Moffat used the St Kenneth Lodge in Kennoway as a cover for loyalist paramilitary activity.
    The UDA is one of Ulster’s most brutal paramilitary organisations. Using the cover-name the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF) it waged a campaign of sectarian assassination against Northern Ireland’s Catholics. One of its most notorious “brigadiers”, Johnny “Mad Dog” Adair, fled to Ayrshire after his expulsion from Belfast following an internecine loyalist feud.
    Moffat is serving five years in jail after being imprisoned by the High Court in Edinburgh earlier this month under the Terrorism Act 2000 for membership of a proscribed organisation and possession of firearms.
    He was found with a Browning 9mm automatic pistol and ammunition at his home. Police also discovered flags, balaclavas and other paramilitary regalia, including documents detailing the UDA’s initiation ceremonies.
    Police and prosecutors believed the items “were for the preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism”. Moffat joined the UDA in Belfast at least three years ago.
    The Mason’s Fife and Kinross provincial grand master, David Wishart, said Moffat had used the Masonic Lodge in Kennoway for UDA meetings for at least 18 months. A member of the lodge who was also in the Orange Order had arranged for Moffat and his loyalist associates to hold meetings in the Kennoway lodge. Wishart insisted that no other members knew the true nature of Moffat’s activities.
    Once Moffat’s actions were discovered, the Mason and Orange Order member who assisted him resigned after being threatened with expulsion from the Masons.
    “I was horrified to find out that this had been going on,” said Wishart.
    Moffat, who was not a Freemason but often drank in the St Kenneth Lodge’s bar, used the Kennoway Masonic Hall for two types of meetings. Firstly, regular private “strategy” meetings with Moffat and 10 other men occurred over 18 months. The UDA members discussed their plans in a closed room while lodge members drank at the Mason’s bar in the same building.
    The second type of meeting was fund-raising events for loyalist causes in Northern Ireland. Up to 70 people attended three fundraisers held at the Masonic Hall over an 18-month period.
    Wishart said: “The UDA infiltrated and used us for their illegal purposes. These people are very clever. We were trusting; they gained our confidence and then we were manipulated.”
    Kennoway Masonic Hall was closed for eight weeks for an internal Masonic inquiry following police raids in the area in connection with Moffat’s activities.
    At the time of his arrest, Moffat was planning to hold an initiation ceremony for Scottish UDA recruits at the Masonic hall. Wishart has since altered hall letting procedures and leasing now has to be cleared by a committee and a lodge member must vouch for those letting the premises.
    The Orange Order has been banned from using the Kennoway lodge’s premises. Previously, Orangemen regularly hired out the hall.
    “Due to rogue members of the lodge linked to the Orange Order and the UDA we took the decision to no longer allow them the use of the premises,” said Wishart.
    Senior police officers told Wishart that they were “mounting similar surveillance operations in the west of Scotland” against Masonic lodges which might have been infiltrated by loyalist terrorists.
    “I can’t say if there is or isn’t a risk elsewhere,” said Wishart, pointing out that members of some of the 49 Fife lodges under his command were also in the Orange Order. One other lodge in Fife also allows the Orange Order to rent its premises for functions.
    David Begg, the grand master of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, said if any lodges were involved in supporting the UDA they would be closed. He has warned Scotland’s 32 provincial masters to be extra vigilant but cannot compel lodges to introduce committee-led hall letting procedures similar to those adopted by Kennoway.
    “We can’t tell lodges what to do. It is up to the trustees of each lodge but we will be producing general guidance in the near future,” he said.

    This happened 10 months before the murder of Madeleine Mccann.
    Perhaps NOT the IRA (Real or otherwise) more likely the threat might have come from a subverted UDA organisation....Gerrys family are from Donegal which is in the province of Ulster.
     
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  3. Jdee

    Jdee Sometimes I scream inside my head. I scream for th

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    huh? :confused:
     
  4. Floh

    Floh Former Member

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    I'm baffled. :waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
     
  5. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    Why on earth would the IRA or the UDA travel to PDL to abduct/murder a child just because her family had some connections with Donegal in Ireland? I have heard some ludicrous theories but this has to be the most!
     
  6. thentherewere4

    thentherewere4 New Member

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    Well when you look at it like that Barnaby I suppose it is a bit wacko isn't it? Moving on.....Do you think there might be any organisations that sponsored Gerry along the way?
     
  7. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    I really understand, are you asking do i think would the IRA, the UDA or the Masons have some hold over Gerry or have funded his actions?

    Forgive my bad manners btw, I forgot to welcome you to the forum! You are welcome :)
     
  8. thentherewere4

    thentherewere4 New Member

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    Thank you Barnaby,I am here for all the usual reasons...getting a life etc!
     
  9. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    Wouldn't it have been a lot easier just to kneecap Gerry on the way to work one day?

    Seriously, the UDA is a real and present threat, but this is like involving Al Quaida in the Jon-Benet Ramsey case.
     
  10. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    Welcome :) You post a lot on the 3A's right?
     
  11. thefragile7393

    thefragile7393 Chronically sleep deprived

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    I have to admit, I'm baffled too :waitasec:
     
  12. thentherewere4

    thentherewere4 New Member

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    Barnaby,
    The 3A's.I used to post alot there,not so much now.

    Texana,
    The terms IRA and UDA are quite arbitary when it comes to the Brotherhood of Masons.The UDA had infiltrated (in 2006) the Masons as this article demonstrates...if Gerry needed help then wether the Brother happens to be in the UDA or the IRA is an irrelevance in so far as party loyalties are concerned,the Brother must make himself and his organisations resources (whatever they be )available to Gerry.
     
  13. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    So, to make sure I understand you correctly, you're saying that Gerry is a Mason, and therefore, whatever he asks from another Mason/brother is given to him, regardless of law or moral or personal convenience.

    Am I following this line of thought correctly?
     
  14. thentherewere4

    thentherewere4 New Member

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    Hi Texana,

    This is my understanding of the nature of the Masonic Brotherhood.
     
  15. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    And we know for sure Gerry is a Mason? Just making sure.

    So, when Madeleine "disappeared" the Masons had to step in to help.

    I wouldn't dispute that if Gerry is absolutely a Mason.
     
  16. thentherewere4

    thentherewere4 New Member

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    Seems so.....is that really a possibility in this day and age....and help how help? What evidence is there of their involvement?
     
  17. Morag

    Morag New Member

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    I am neither a Catholic nor a Mason, but I think that the answer is no. Any Catholics or Masons out there who know for sure?
     
  18. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    I think if Gerry is a Mason, then the other Masons would not reveal that, but it would be public knowledge for anyone who knows Gerry. My first boss was/is a Mason. No secrets there.

    As far as being Catholic, no, I seriously doubt Gerry has the kind of fervor in himself for unconditional obedience or help for other Catholics, nor do I think other Catholics would respond unconditionally to him.

    So, if we don't have any proof that Gerry is of the Masonic lodge, then this is for me, is just going to go into the Interesting But False File 13.
    (An American idiom for the trash can.)
     
  19. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    If the English/Irish masons are anything like the US masons, I would have a hard time with this also. I can not see covering up a murder just because you belong to some club or frat.

    Maybe I'm naive, but this doesn't compute in my brain,

    Salem
     
  20. Shazza

    Shazza Former Member

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    The bolded relates to me also, totally lost me, and not really sure what this has to do with Madelaines disappearance/murder/accident/kidnapping or whatever befell poor Madelaine.:eek::waitasec::confused:
     
  21. Barnaby

    Barnaby New Member

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    I think if Gerry is a Mason as has been thrown out a lot of times then yes they would help. However, I would rule out the IRA/UDA involvement, that is too far fetched for me!
     
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