The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?

Okay let's throw out the following:

the key
SA's blood in TH's SUV
the bullet with TH's DNA on it

What's left?

Oh right. Her body in tiny charred bits (which included the very Daisy Fuentes rivets found from the jeans she was wearing -- Brandon said they burned her clothes).

And?

Phone calls (at least 3) from SA to TH's phone. 2 of the calls were dialed using *67 to obscure the phone number. SA lured TH to his property by using his sister's name and sister's phone number when he called The Auto Trader to request TH come out.

And?

TH's last known movements place her at the Avery Salvage Yard, including pings from her own cell phone.

And?

TH's SUV found on the Avery property, with multiple, large pieces of metal and other debris obscuring it, one of the pieces of metal was too large and heavy for one person to move.

And?

TH's license plates found inside one of the other scrapped cars on the Avery property.

And?

TH's cell phone, palm pilot, and camera she used that very day found burned in the burn barrel right in front of SA's house. Brendan allegedly told police that's where her phone, etc were put.

This comes up in dassey trial and that's an exaggeration and the witness who dealt with the car hood admitted it was indeed something one person could handle.

The phone business is the most suspicious elements of everything in my opinion.

Everything else you mention, doesn't directly point to Steve, given guys like Chuck Avery and other suspects having access to everything at the junk yard that Steve did, and convincing evidence the bones were moved.
 
If we throw out the key because we believe it's planted by LE, nothing else is reliable, IMHO.

New investigation, top to bottom. JMO

Nope, that doesn't compute. And saying the key was planted because of belief has no evidence behind it. Where's the evidence?
 
Nope, that doesn't compute. And saying the key was planted because of belief has no evidence behind it. Where's the evidence?

It was hypothetical. If we choose to say hypothetically "ok let's pretend this key was planted, let's throw it out as evidence" then the rest becomes questionable.
 
Okay, let's say they acquired a 'like' key. Where did they find the exact lanyard (blue with "Air National Guard" printed on it from the EAA convention TH's sister attended 2 years before) and fob her sister, Katie, gave her 2 summers before? She only had 1 of them and that's the very same fob found on the key. Katie ID'd the key and fob on the witness stand. The fob is the one she gave TH. (That's why you have to use actual evidence and testimony.) All the "what-ifs" get quickly whittled down when compared to actual evidence and actual testimony.


First, you have to realize that anything in the car law enforcement had access to, such as the valet key.

Also, does it seem to be crazy for law enforcement to ask family about they key itself and what it might be attached to ?

I agree, that the more details that get added, the less likely a plant becomes. Which is why I am not convinced of planting, although don't doubt it could have happened for certain things.

Lets ask why the valet key ? Is it possible another family member might have had that or it was in the glove box ?

If we don't have anyone verify that she used the valet key, or we don't have anyone confirm she used the master key -- isn't it kind of worth questioning ?

If it was the master key, I'd be far less likely to entertain this topic. jmo
 
It was hypothetical. If we choose to say hypothetically "ok let's pretend this key was planted, let's throw it out as evidence" then the rest becomes questionable.

Only if you can tie Lenk to other evidence found and collected. Except, that's not possible. Because Lenk didn't find the other evidence in the case. So were all the officers and crime scene folks in on a conspiracy?
 
Lets ask why the valet key ? Is it possible another family member might have had that or it was in the glove box ?

If we don't have anyone verify that she used the valet key, or we don't have anyone confirm she used the master key -- isn't it kind of worth questioning ?

If it was the master key, I'd be far less likely to entertain this topic. jmo

RSBM - I definitely feel if the key was planted, it was found in the vehicle somewhere. I don't think a family member would hide that information if they gave it to the officers. JMO!

I'm still curious where her other keys are...
 
First, you have to realize that anything in the car law enforcement had access to, such as the valet key.

As did SA.


Also, does it seem to be crazy for law enforcement to ask family about they key itself and what it might be attached to ?

But did they? Or is this an imagined conversation?


Lets ask why the valet key ? Is it possible another family member might have had that or it was in the glove box ?

If we don't have anyone verify that she used the valet key, or we don't have anyone confirm she used the master key -- isn't it kind of worth questioning ?

If it was the master key, I'd be far less likely to entertain this topic. jmo

So who had it and where was it? There's an allegation TH may not have had the valet key or she had it and it was in the SUV or a family member had it or... or... ??? You can certainly speculate, but how does that get an answer? Instead I prefer to just go with the trial transcripts, witness testimony, and what was presented to the jury in court.
 
While I do believe it is quite possible it was planted, I don't have nearly as much concern with how long it took them to find it than WHO found it, the fact that it didn't have any of Teresa's DNA on it, and it seemed to be a valet key with no other keys on it.

yep,

who found it
valet key
no other keys.

it's not craziness to question this, all things considered.

The no DNA, doesn't really surprise me much. If Steve did have it, and put it in a book on his shelves or whatever, he likely has cleaned it.

Now, the reason someone would keep the key, is if the car is on the lot and for some reason he needs to move it again.

Someone confirming to me that Teresa used her valet key, would be meaningful to know. Coworkers ? friends ? family ? roommate ?

I would certainly know what my friends keyring has on it, if I ever borrowed their car. But do we think law enforcement investigated this ? why ? to incriminate themselves ?


So why would they fear that someone would ever know ? ya know ?
 
As did SA. -- yes, so if she used the master key with a lanyard, why would he use the valet key and transfer the lanyard? Do you think it's even worth questioning this , if we are evaluating if the key was planted ?




But did they? Or is this an imagined conversation? -- We know very little about what anyone was asked. Until today, I had no idea that Bryan Dassey was interviewed and made statements about Steve's reactions to various situations pertinent to the crime. So, there's something I pondered about and suddenly appeared. an imagined conversation that is now reality.




So who had it and where was it? There's an allegation TH may not have had the valet key or she had it and it was in the SUV or a family member had it or... or... ??? You can certainly speculate, but how does that get an answer? Instead I prefer to just go with the trial transcripts, witness testimony, and what was presented to the jury in court. -- see my answer to last one


Lets take a step back and realize that we have not even seen the avery trial transcripts yet. This is why I have questions. If I had all the interviews, maybe I wouldn't be asking questions.

But don't scoff at others for not having details we don't yet have access to. Do you have the avery trial transcripts ? please share them if you do.
 
Saying they "could have" gotten her spare valet key (which just so happened to have the exact same fob on it that her sister testified she gave to her months before, and that TH used all the time) does not tell us how they got it, who they got it from, or when, or where. There needs to be some evidence to point to beyond "well they could'a").


Please, let's remember, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. The defense is not required to provide an alternative theory. In fact, due to some weird WI law, they were actually prevented from doing so.

Again, this is about "Reasonable Doubt." There is plenty here.

The fact that the Avery jury verdicts "split the baby," and that some jurors have come forward admitting that there was vote trading, calls into question whether or not this was a fair trial.
 
How do you know that the key wasn't in the SUV? Coburn could have found the key in the RAV two days before the RAV was officially found and then locked up the RAV and taken the key. In my view, however, it is more likely that one of the brothers or Tadych planted the key in SA's home.

For those who want to believe Lenk and/or Colburn planted TH's car key & fob in SA's bedroom, can you please explain exactly where they got TH's key to plant? TH was in possession of her own car key. Said key was not in her SUV after she disappeared. So where was this magical key that Lenk and/or Colburn obtained in order to plant it?
 
Seriously?

They took his toothbrush or one of his shirts out to the SUV to 'plant' his DNA on the latch underneath the hood of the SUV? The very latch police didn't even know about until Brendan told them SA opened up the hood of the SUV to disconnect something? (btw, whatever that was, a hose or whatever, was in fact found disconnected). And, a swab of the hood latch was taken by a crime scene investigator, packaged and sent to the Wisconsin Crime Lab, and the lab was able to develop a DNA profile from those swabs. It matched to SA.

You asked about the key. I answered that. You can't change the goalposts in the middle of a debate.

But to answer you, it was stated in an earlier thread that an officer handled the rav4 without changing gloves, and experts state that skin cells can be transferred. I'm looking for the statement again to quote it.
 
You asked about the key. I answered that. You can't change the goalposts in the middle of a debate.

But to answer you, it was stated in an earlier thread that an officer handled the rav4 without changing gloves, and experts state that skin cells can be transferred. I'm looking for the statement again to quote it.

Was that officer Lenk? It is alleged to be Lenk who found (i.e. planted) the key in SA's bedroom. Did the officer who allegedly didn't change his gloves after handling the Rav4 and SA's car also handle the key in SA's bedroom?
 
So, let's say that LE somehow planted the key. Does this make all the other evidence against him moot? Could it be possible that he did kill Teresa but, just to be certain, someone in law enforcement decided to plant a key? Yes, that's horrible. But, for me, it doesn't make the rest of the evidence against him just go away...it just doesn't.

This absolutely 100% does make the rest of the evidence tainted. It raises reasonable doubt on its own.
This is why the producers of The doc did it the way they did. This is why all one has to do is watch the doc. No need to research rest of the case.
The documentary raises reasonable doubt irregardless of what the rest of the evidence is.
There should be a retrial. And I believe there will be.
 
:panic:

I leave for a few hours.... come back and we are upstairs!!!!! Does this mean we have to behave? hehehe

I have a question for those that think the key was not planted (by LE or anyone else)..... How do you explain or rationalize no other DNA being found on it?

It's the lack of other DNA on that key/lanyard that gets me. Not a trace of TH? If I went missing today and my truck key was found, you would find my DNA, my husbands, probably my kids.... shoot, I would be shocked if my dogs DNA wasn't on it, and hopefully there would be a trace of DNA from the person responsible for me being missing. I cannot find a rational reason for no other DNA on that key.
 
Not sure if I'm positing in the right section. Just binge watched all 10 episodes, as creepy as it was. I am not convinced of Steven's innocence or guilt but I do feel the investigators did not AT ALL investigate possible other suspects, mainly the relatives who lived so close by and have criminal records. I feel that DA was a complete dirtbag creep, and the theory the key was planted (strange none of the victim's DA was found on it) could be true. After NO blood was found in his house or garage, shouldn't have the family/neighbor's yards and homes been checked?

The entire case is baffling. I don't think we will ever know for sure what happened to this poor girl unless someone comes forward with information or a confession. SA's prior criminal history does make me think he is a sociopath and as a therapist once told me, there is no way the average, good person could EVER even try to understand the mind of a sociopath. They don't have empathy. And they have such a high sense of self-worth that perhaps he did think he could commit this crime, and if found out, blame it on the town trying to get him. And for a man with a very low IQ of 70, he might have just out-smarted the thousands of us with high IQs who have watched this story and now doubt he is guilty.
 
While I do believe it is quite possible it was planted, I don't have nearly as much concern with how long it took them to find it than WHO found it, the fact that it didn't have any of Teresa's DNA on it, and it seemed to be a valet key with no other keys on it.

I believe that it was perhaps the trophy that some SK's have to have. He stuffed it in the back of the bookcase and upon jiggling the book case, it fell out. That is totally plausible to me. It was a valet key anyway, so how did the police get it to plant it?
 
I believe that it was perhaps the trophy that some SK's have to have. He stuffed it in the back of the bookcase and upon jiggling the book case, it fell out. That is totally plausible to me. It was a valet key anyway, so how did the police get it to plant it?

Depends on if you believe the police planted the car and had the key all along, or if you believe they had access in the crime lab.

Another possibility is that a family member such as the brother had it, and gave it to police.

I am not saying that is something I find probable. But, I don't doubt that if a family member/friend had the key, and believed that avery was the killer.... might give that to police for that purpose.

It's out there, but it's plausible.

I can imagine a family member/friend who believed avery was the killer, could convince themselves that this was fair play. jmo

ends justifies the means - happens all the time, if we are willing to be honest
 
I believe that it was perhaps the trophy that some SK's have to have. He stuffed it in the back of the bookcase and upon jiggling the book case, it fell out. That is totally plausible to me. It was a valet key anyway, so how did the police get it to plant it?

Whoa now we're talking about him as though he's a serial killer?
 
I'm not sure how to share just a picture.... so here is the link. https://imgur.com/a/vgV9B

I seen it on reddit.... Colburn said he shook that bookcase quite roughly. There is a remote control and and a piece of paper on the top, undisturbed, the books or whatever it is on the bottom.... and what looks to be a phone, all look pretty much undisturbed.
 

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