The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by ferretnurse, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    It was never proven planted though.
     


  2. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    ACJL my friend. The contention is that all items were planted. You can't counter allegations of planted evidence with... "but look at all the evidence" lol

    Also, your attempt at explaining away the perjury committed by AC is nothing but gobbledegook and quite comical, but, nice try. There is absolutely no way to cover for the planted key. You might as well just concede that one.
     
  3. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Actually, that contention, imo, needs to be substantiated first. Right now it's just nothing more than a contention. A theory. It has never been more than just that.

    Aside from all that, has there ever been a case where at least the following was planted?

    - the car of the victim
    - the car key of the victim
    - the license plates of the car, separate from the car
    - the blood of the main suspect
    - fired bullets
    - spent shell casings
    - DNA of the victim
    - (touch) DNA of the main suspect
    - burned body of the victim
    - burned belongings of the victim
    - a coerced confession

    and all that while coincidentally the main suspect:

    - had opportunity
    - had no alibi
    - had lied about his appointment with the victim
    - had lied about his activities on the day the victim disappeared
    - had a bonfire at the place where later the burned remains were found
    - used a burn barrel in which later the burned electronics were found
    - cleaned a "red fluid" from the crime scene where later a red stain was found and few feet away a bullet with DNA was found
    - removed himself from the crime scene, before it was designated as the crime scene
    - etc, etc
     
  4. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    The proof is in the pudding. The explanation for how it fell, sideways, after Colbourn was "none too gentle" with bookcase, twisting and turning it enough to dislodge it from the secret hiding place, YET he was still gentle enough with it to not move the coins on top.
    It doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up. Common sense and logic dictate the key was planted by one of your heroes AC or JL and that Colbourn committed perjury on the stand.
     
  5. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    That contention IS being substantiated. That is where the case is now. You can believe whatever you choose to believe. This thread is about the key. And the key was clearly planted. There is absolutely no doubt about it.
     
  6. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    So you are suggesting that the photo's were not taken before and after now? They were staged? or what? I don't understand that thought process lol

    I never said her car wasn't physical evidence. Read the paragraph as a whole. In real time, on the 8th, the blood was not DNA confirmed yet, it was not physical evidence against SA, it was in a large salvage yard where other people lived and other people had access to. There was NO other evidence against SA at that time. IIRC the license plate was found later that day, it wasn't physical evidence yet. The barrel was found later that day, it was not physical evidence yet. The bones were found later that day, it was not physical evidence yet. So in real time, all they had was the RAV4 with someone's blood.

    This just reminded me how all that evidence came flooding in on the 8th .... 3 days later... crazy.
     
  7. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Or that proves that the photos weren't taken at the time you assume they were taken. When do you think the photos were taken?
     
  8. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Well, you said there was no physical evidence. There was: the car and blood. Does that matter though? They also had the license plates and her electronics, found burned in Avery's burn barrel. They also had Joshua Radandt saying he saw a burn barrel sized fire next to Avery's trailer and Avery subsequently denying that.

    The main point I was making though was whether the key had impact at trial. And it didn't. The State had plenty of other evidence and the only way the key couldve made impact at trial was if it was a planted key.

    And yes, I believe the photos were not taken before and after the moving of the bookcase. That is why the bookcase didnt move between the photos.
     
  9. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Actually it is. It has Avery's DNA on it and nobody has ever been able to prove that someone other than Steven Avery has gotten the DNA on there. Can you prove Lenk or Colborn had the key before it was found on the 8th? If you're gonna make the claim they planted it, you have to be able to prove they had it before they entered the trailer. And you can't. You have nothing to prove the key was planted.
     
  10. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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  11. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    And as per Dr. Palenik's findings if the key found in Avery's bedroom was not the key used everyday by Ms. Halbach that would mean it was probably a spare key to her vehicle. Which makes us then wonder about the photo of TH with a bunch of keys she had, and more than likely had other keys in the bunch of keys like car key, house keys, etc. Those keys have never been found so where are they?
     
  12. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    How many affidavit's did Dr. Palenik sign though? Because there is no mention of the key in the one affidavit I could find.

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/048-Affidavit-of-Dr-Palenik.pdf


    It indeed was a spare key. If you're referring to that photo of TH where she's in front of her car, all I could ever see were two bright dots near her hand. It could be a bunch of keys, it could be just two keys, or it could be something totally different.

    If you're implying this somehow constitutes as proof that the killer was someone other that SA, then please elaborate.
     
  13. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Palenik's findings, not just on the key but other evidence as well as posted in Ms. Zellner's Post Conviction Relief documents to which i posted the link. Page #26 in the PC PDF file, submitted to the Court June 07, 2017.
    https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...06.07+-+Motion+for+Post-Conviction+Relief.pdf

    As far as proving who killed TH i will leave that up to the experts though.
     
  14. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Yes I saw that, but that's not what I'm getting at. Unless there is another affidavit out there, there is only one in which he makes no mention of the key. I find that really odd, that Zellner states this is her experts opinion, yet there is no evidence in his affidavit to back it up. His affidavit makes no mention he ever tested the key for anything. It just talks about bullet FL...

    Looking further through that paragraph on page 10/pdf page 26, Zellner states that Dr. Palenik has completely disproven the State's theory that bullet FL killed TH and went through her skull. However, Kratz never said bullet FL went through her skull. He just said she was shot in the garage and as evidence for that we have two bullets, among other things. These things make me doubt the integrity of the Motion... I wonder what Sutkiewicz thought when she read this...
     
  15. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant Well-Known Member

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    Hi all!!!! Miss all you guys!!! Busy doing taxes...

    Anyway....I had to laugh..."Joshua Radandt saying"

    You really need to catch up and do some more reading...Read Kathleen Zellner's affidavit from Josh Randandt, he signs a sworn affidavit that LE told him what to say....

    Gotta Go~~~Talk to you all soon!!
     
  16. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Ah, there indeed is another affidavit from this man:

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c.../Exhibit-24-First-Affidavit-of-Dr-Palenik.pdf

    And here he does talk about the RAV4 key.

    His main points:

    - it is a sub key (duh)
    - he says it's a different key than the one seen on trial exhibit 5.
    - he compared it to (only) five other keys.
    - he concluded that the amount of debris on TH car key was different from the other 5 he examined, therefore concludes it was not used on a daily basis.

    I'd like to raise the following points on this:

    1 One of these 5 keys was from a 2012 Toyota model.
    2 He does not specify what model the other keys came from.
    3 He does not specify how long the other keys had been used on a daily basis. 10 years? 1 year? 5 months? a week? 48 hours?
    4 He claims the valet key is not seen on trial exhibit 5. I can't even make out if that's a key she's carrying with her....
    5 He compared the key with only 5 other keys. As if that tells you anything. Why not go with 50 or a 100? That would mean something.

    Until further explained by Palenik, I can't say this proves much, imo.
     
  17. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    I've already read it.

    Radandt says he saw a burn barrel fire on the 5th near SA's home. During a second interview with him, LE asked if he was sure it was just a burn barrel fire and not a burnpit-sized fire. He maintained it was a burn barrel fire. This is consistent with what Blaine and Fabian said as well.
     
  18. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant Well-Known Member

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    No, not that one...it was in the Post Conviction relief Petition.
     
  19. IDK

    IDK Active Member

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    Great point Karinna. I have always thought her key ring and the rest of the keys were kept by the real killer.
     
  20. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    Hi IDK, yeah i was thinking that everyone i know, including myself, doesn't just carry around just a vehicle key, but normally have a few keys on their key ring, and i think TH did too. I have 5 keys on my key ring.
     

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