The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by ferretnurse, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department wasn't sued. The County itself was sued. Aside from the county, only two people were named in the lawsuit: the retired former sheriff of MTSO Tom Kocourek and the former district attorney Denis Vogel. Colborn, Lenk, Remiker, Jost, Senglaub, etc... none of the cops who were actively searching Avery's Auto Salvage property were named in the lawsuit. None of them were under threat to pay anything.

    Just because Avery sought a 36,000,000 dollar compensation, doesn't mean he would've gotten it. Even if he won the case, that doesn't mean he would get the amount of money he sought.

    Avery didn't demand just $ 36,000,000. He actually demanded a minimum of $ 1,000,000 to a maximum of $ 36,000,000. If he had won, he probably would've gotten a reward somewhere inbetween. Could also have been less though...

    The $ 36,000,000 obviously is based on the 18 years in prison, seeking compensation of $ 1,000,000 for every year spent in prison, x2. However, as I'm sure you know, of those 18 years he spent six years concurrently for the road assault on Sandra Morris. That's just one thing that probably would've prevented him from ever getting $ 36,000,000. Next it would've been difficult for him to prove intentional wrong-doing by MTSO, rather than, for example, negligence.

    I highly doubt he would've received any reward that would make the county shiver. If you look at the financial reports of the county about that time they weren't doing half bad financially either. If Avery would've gotten a million or two, that wouldn't have bothered the county one bit. The county wasn't a self insured entity btw, it had an insurance carrier.

    Even if the County, Kocourek and Vogel would have to pay Avery, I doubt anyone would be affected financially (except Kocourek and Vogel).

    Or don't make the same mistake twice.

    I would find it very unlikely that AC, upon finding the RAV4 on Nov 3, would suddenly decide TH was murdered and SA was responsible for it and then plant the car on Avery's property without yet knowing if he was the last person to see her alive. But this is something to discuss in another topic I guess... this one's about the key.
     
  2. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't about the 36mil. It was about the depositions. People would have went to jail when it came out what they purposely did to SA in 85. They purposely left a serial rapist out on the streets to continue raping just so they could get SA locked up. That is criminal. The frame job in 05 was not about the 36mil.
     
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  3. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    The cops accused of planting evidence in 2005 did not play any role in the 1985 case. They didn't even work for MTSO in 1985.

    The victim identified Steven as her assailant. That was probably the most important piece of evidence against him back then.
     
  4. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    There is no need to rehash the details here because we have done so many times before, but we both know cops directly involved in "finding" evidence 2005 were involved in suppressing exculpatory evidence against SA with regards to his 85 conviction. And we both know they were deposed in the lawsuit in the days surrounding the murder of TH.

    Like i said, I see no need to continue wasting time going over the details because it has been done ad nauseum, but when false and deceptive information is being presented here at websleuths, i will correct it. Every single time. This isnt reddit.
     
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  5. proudfootz

    proudfootz Well-Known Member

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    The Beernsten case indicates to me there was already some hostility among LE against SA. Then he finally is vindicated and released - I don't think they were happy about that even though it meant a wrongfully convicted American finally walked free. Then there was all the hoopla about the Steven Avery Law which must have been embarrassing for those who worked hard to convict him. Avery was lauded as a hero and LE were the goats. Finally, there was the lawsuit which could expose the workings of local LE to further humiliation and potentially criminal consequences. The money was just the icing on the cake.

    I think there were so many motives it's not necessary to choose only one.
     
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  6. entrustEd

    entrustEd New Member

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    Your statement is false.

    Kenneth Peterson (Sheriff in 2005, deposed Oct 13 2005) was the arresting officer for SA in 1985

    In 1985, then Det Sgt James Lenk (deposed Oct 11 2005) signed a transmittal form for evidence from SA put into his case file. Doc is found in the case file by defense. Lenk is who discovers the RAV4 key after many searches.
     
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  7. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    That happened in ‘95, but the point still stands....The dirty cops who were “finding” evidence in 2005, even though they were not supposed to be investigating the case at all, were also deposed in the lawsuit for Avery’s 1st wrongful conviction. No matter how anyone tries to slice it, those are the facts.
     
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  8. entrustEd

    entrustEd New Member

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    According to MaM episode 4, starting at 1:00:00, KP was arresting officer in 1985 as I said above (Jerry Buting speaking in episode).

    I forgot to add it was 1994 or 1995 that Sgt AC was the person who received the call from purportedly Brown County det. with the info an inmate was claiming responsibility for an assault. Therefore he was involved at least ~10 years prior to 2005. I know from an interview of Gene Kusche shown in MaM ep 2-4, he had knowledge of this report back circa 1995
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  9. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are right here. The part about Lenk happened in ‘95 though
     
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  10. entrustEd

    entrustEd New Member

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    Ok, thanks for clarifying, I watched again and there was no date visible on form in MaM. That form may be available, I should look for it.

    I think the point here is, a few members of MCSO did indeed have involvement in SA's rape case conviction back in 1985.
    And several more were involved circa 1995.
     
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  11. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    Ask and you shall receive :D

    I think this is the form you are talking about entrustEd... it is from 2002

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...4-Evidence-Transmittal-Form-Dated-9-19-02.pdf

    I will go and look again, to see if there is something else from 95.

    ETA: after reading the link I put in my next post, Lenk wasn't directly involved in 95, but it says that the day after SA was exonerated was when Colborn went to Lenk about the 95 call.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  12. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    EntrustEd... here is a link to the post crescent paper. They got some clips from the depositions of Lenk, Colborn, Kusche, Peterson, and Dvorak. If you scroll down, you will see the links to the other depositions.

    Avery lawsuit video: Lt. James Lenk
     
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  13. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    Why is being deposed and give testimony, possibly one not in favour of your former sheriff, a motive to frame someone?

    Multiple cops who found evidence in '05 suppressed exculpatory evidence against SA? Which cops were that? What undeniable proof do you have these "cops" deliberately withheld information?
     
  14. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    So Peterson was accused of planting evidence in 2005?

    Some form with nail clippings and hair and some blood sample from 1985. So what?

    Lenk found the key on the second thorough search. The other "searches" were not searches. Just entries. They didn't do anything during those entries that could make them find a key behind a record cabinet.
     
  15. ACJL

    ACJL Member

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    So he was already plotting this in 1995 just in case Avery would be released in 2003?

    Hmmm...
     
  16. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Here

    Here I see some reading material to get you caught up on just how bad things were for those named in the suit and the role played by those deposed. To summarize, they were in big time doodoo. They were going down.

    The Two Sides of the Truth | Boston College Law School Magazine
     
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  17. proudfootz

    proudfootz Well-Known Member

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    I just posted the same article! ;)
     
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  18. entrustEd

    entrustEd New Member

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    Thanks for the doc! I really do like the truth, in no way am I disappointed it was dated 2002.

    I have watched Lenk's depo before a couple times. I think some of my thoughts about Lenk's involvement stemmed from what Kusche said in his depo. He makes it sound like Lenk would have been the guy who AC would have reported to about the 1995 call, and also Lenk would have been the person who should have followed up on the 1995 call from Brown County
     
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  19. Starryeyed

    Starryeyed Justice for Ashley Dawn Rogers

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    The key really perplexes me. I was staunchly on the side of SA being innocent until further research, and now it's glaringly obvious (IMO) that he is guilty. HOWEVER, I still believe the key was planted. Maybe LE just needed something more convincing for their case, I don't know. But it wasn't there throughout all the other searches and then it just magically appeared under a slipper? A cop even testified it wasn't there before. Anyway, I dont believe SA was framed entirely though. IMO, he murdered Teresa.
     
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  20. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    So, he was only partially framed but still obviously guilty? Interesting viewpoint!

    Don’t you think if LE were willing to plant one piece of evidence that they likely also planted more?

    Or maybe the planters were only partially crooked...
     
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