The Lab and Building

Discussion in 'Annie Le' started by JBean, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    discuss and post information.
     
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  3. Turbododger

    Turbododger Former Member

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    Thanks, JBean. :)
     
  4. Jersey*Girl

    Jersey*Girl New Member

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    Subtitle:
    The new research building at 10 Amistad Street is home to three programs focusing on translational research, linking basic studies in animal models to potential cures.

    The 3 programs are:
    The Interdepartmental Program in Vascular Biology and Therapeutics
    Human and Translational Immunology Program
    Yale Stem Cell Center

    http://medicine.yale.edu/ysminfo/top_story/2007/10/05102007.html
     
  5. Jersey*Girl

    Jersey*Girl New Member

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  6. shoebox

    shoebox New Member

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    It is hard to believe that someone could be murdered in a lab during working hours and no one else not know. The news reports have not addressed the lab room(s) that Annie was working in at Amistad. The only thing we know is that the animals were in the basement.
    Was no one else working in the basement?
    Is it one big room or many small rooms in the basement?
    Are there glass panels in the doors and walls where people can see into rooms or solid doors and walls?
    Are the walls that soundproof that no one heard arguing/screaming/struggling?
    Why hasn't a floorplan of the basement/building been released? They don't have to release information on where the body or bloody clothes was found to avoid jeopardizing the current investigation but at least a floor plan would be nice.

    To strangle someone and stuff their body behind a wall takes some time to do. Where was everybody else in the building?
     
  7. Celt1997

    Celt1997 New Member

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    Respectfully snipped.

    I am puzzled by this also. Not only is there the time to actual commit the crime, but then to hide the body, and change into new clothes while hiding the old clothes?

    That's why I'm leaning towards someone else being there and helping out. One person takes care of of the clothes, and general scene cleanup, while the other is disposing of the body.

    On top of that, I also wonder how crowded the building would have been on that day, especially at mid to late morning.
     
  8. postdoc

    postdoc New Member

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    I don't know the layout of the basement in Amistad, but here is something I wrote in another thread based on the layout of the rodent facility where I work:

    The suites in our facility are not too large, and have doors with small windows in them. It is possible for one person to work alone and be completely undisturbed. The lab/animal techs may come in and out, but if there was one tech assigned to a particular set of suites, and that tech may have been aware that Annie was the only person *supposed* to be working in that suite.

    Even if the crime was not premeditated, I can easily believe that the tech could have assaulted her without raising the attention of other staff (based on the layout of our facility). In this scenario, the body could be left in the suite (possibly behind a rack of cages). Triggering the fire alarm would have provide ample time to clear the facility of staff and permit the tech to hide the body.

    As I said, pure speculation based on the facility here. Hope this helps.
     
  9. Labrat

    Labrat New Member

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    Hi postdoc! Does your facility have those large supply cart things with the zipped fabric covers for caging supplies? That's how I'd move a body in my facility. I could roll it right past people and they wouldn't give it a second thought.

    Yes, an attack could easily occur in my facility also.
     
  10. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes New Member

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    The fact that she would be kicking and screaming, sometime before noon, makes me think she was lured to a place where she was kept until she was murdered. Until we find out if she had defensive wounds, or chemicals in her system (does chloroform show up on a dead body if she was unconscious for a period of time before being killed?), we won't know if she had a fighting chance.
     
  11. postdoc

    postdoc New Member

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    Yes! Great idea - something to keep in mind :eek:
     
  12. Skigirl

    Skigirl Verified expert in neuroscience

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    I would also add to Postdoc's post that 10 am is still pretty early in vampire-grad student time. The techs would be around, but other grad students would be sort of trickling in in all likelihood. The layout plus the hour would mean that she could be completely alone down there with just a couple techs roaming about.
     
  13. MBSC

    MBSC New Member

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    I have read several different news reports that state three of RC's relatives worked at the lab - has anyone else heard this? I thought it was just RC, his fiance, his sister and brother-in-law...

    - http://www.kcbs.com/Investigation-Continues-in-Murder-of-Yale-Student/5234258
     
  14. Labrat

    Labrat New Member

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    I had to bring this out of the closed thread because I can not let this plain wrong information stand-

    Wrong. Research on mice is not regulated extremely tightly and barely regulated at all. They are not covered under the animal welfare act. Your information is simply not correct:http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=119904&page=1

    these facilities can go through thousands of mice and rats a month.

    Yes, we may even go through more, but that doesn't mean we can do whatever we want with them. You are just wrong. I suggest you take a look at this: http://info.med.yale.edu/iacuc/

    The only regulations are not really regulations but a set of standards of care that only apply to federally funded projects (and often student work is not) and those are loose and self reported. This is wrong also. Students are required to work under an approved IACUC protocol. All rodent work is. If your protocol expires, you can not touch your animals until it is renewed. They are absolutely not loose and certainly not self reported.
    If you or I or any amateur with no credentials or professional or academic with credentials, wished to buy 100 lab mice and see how long it took to blind them by dipping them in an ammonia solution, or how they reacted to pain of needles stuck in them or how long they lived in a hot oven -- we would not be breaking any laws. (don't get me wrong all of that sounds terrible to me)

    Yes, you are correct here. If you wanted to buy the mice at a pet store and sit in your home and do this, you absolutely could. The thing is, you absolutely could NOT do this inside a Yale animal facility. Here you go- http://info.med.yale.edu/iacuc/applicants.html

    I think this whole animal rights thing for this case is a compelty off the tracks and not supported by a shred of evidence. That's because you are not familiar with how this system works. everything points to unrequited obsession or less likely but still possible, a badly ended affair. Animal rights activism is something in its lighter forms most people would agree with and in its more sever forms something most people consider fringe, ie most people thing it is wrong to beat a dog, but not wrong to own aquarium fish or step on a bug. It is a potlitcal issue though and I think people are sticking their poltics into a crime which has nothign to do with animal rights, animal welfare or either the sober or nutty people concerned with it.

    I saw some of those issues about a possible issue over animal care. Inside an animal facility at Yale, it is not a political issue. Take a look at this- http://info.med.yale.edu/iacuc/whistle.html It can be a real source of friction at times, depending on the personalities involved. I have had animal technicians removed from my rooms because they were taking very poor care of my mice, even after several reprimands. I have also had animal technicians report me for overcrowded cages when I didn't get to my weaning on time.

    http://grants.nih.gov/grants/olaw/faqs.htm

    Just a note- A lot of what I post is my opinion based on my experience. However, when I talk about animal use guidelines in federally funded research, animal use protocols, things of that nature- that is not my opinion. I can back all of that up.;)
     
  15. panthera

    panthera Retired WS Staff

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    Has there been anything said about when the next person to enter the lab (after RC) arrived, who it was, or if anything seemed out of the ordinary, like an unfinished experiment or anything amiss? MOO
     
  16. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes New Member

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    I'd definitely like to find out how far apart are the areas she was last seen and where her body was found. If she was only seen entering the lab, could her body have been transported from where she was last seen to where she was found without being seen? And who were the next people to be seen entering and leaving the lab in the hour or so after she was last seen? Did it include the suspect?
     
  17. Labrat

    Labrat New Member

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    My technician and I were discussing this today. I told him my plan for concealing the body. I believe I scared the hell out of him, but he did agree it would absolutely work. Even with people in the hallway while I was doing it. He asked me if that's the sort of thing I usually think about when we're back there- I hope he doesn't quit the job tomorrow:crazy:

    I think Yale might be hesitant to release a floor plan of that facility for security reasons. I wouldn't do it.
     
  18. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes New Member

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    Exactly. Or if there's even a place in that area to hide a body if someone had been murdered there, a place that wouldn't be accessed until the next day or days in between. That could have been the perfect place to put her body until it could be placed in the wall. There must be fingerprints and fibers on the area where her body was found.
     
  19. panthera

    panthera Retired WS Staff

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    This is what I was thinking. If there was a struggle or enough of one for him to get scratches on his back, chest and arms, I'd think there could be some equipment knocked over, or some kind of evidence that something went on in there. I'm not clear how far the area where she was found is from the lab she was last seen entering? I understood it to be where the animals are kept? :waitasec:
     
  20. Native New Yorker

    Native New Yorker New Member

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  21. Labrat

    Labrat New Member

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    I will answer based on my facility. Of course I don't know the Amistad facility, but I have worked in animal facilities at 5 different institutions, and so far they have all been set up in a similar way

    It is hard to believe that someone could be murdered in a lab during working hours and no one else not know. The news reports have not addressed the lab room(s) that Annie was working in at Amistad. The only thing we know is that the animals were in the basement.
    Was no one else working in the basement? There would have been- 10 is still a bit early for research people, but animal care techs usually start pretty early.
    Is it one big room or many small rooms in the basement? many rooms
    Are there glass panels in the doors and walls where people can see into rooms or solid doors and walls? This varies
    Are the walls that soundproof that no one heard arguing/screaming/struggling? There might be some background noise if cagewash was nearby and running. If animal techs were doing changeouts with hoods running that can muffle sound- they might be wearing headphones and listening to music while they worked. Our techs are always screaming at each other in the hallway- they're a loud bunch.
    Why hasn't a floorplan of the basement/building been released? They don't have to release information on where the body or bloody clothes was found to avoid jeopardizing the current investigation but at least a floor plan would be nice. I suspect it might not be. They might have to provide one for the trial, but I doubt they'll give one to the press. I base this on the fact that I would not do it.

    To strangle someone and stuff their body behind a wall takes some time to do. Where was everybody else in the building?

    I think to actually do it would not take as much time as we think. I think familiarity with the place would help a great deal.

     

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