The McCann's are victims

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Seeker, Sep 17, 2007.

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  1. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    I thought this (attacking the family) was against the TOS and even Tricia said this was not allowed other than in the JBR forum.

    The only reason the McCann's have been declared suspects by the PJ is because they can't find anyone else to pin it on. Just because they can't find the actual guilty party (Brian Mitchell and his "wife" Wanda Barzee in ES case) doesn't mean they wont, in time.

    As of right now the McCann's really are just victims of a crime.

    This same accuse the family tactic was used on the vanDams, the grandparents of Jessica Lundsford (neighbors brother Ed Couey was the one), Elizabeth Smart, Xiana Fairchild (over 3 years to catch Curtis Anderson) and many other child victims families. When the police and the media can't find someone else they always turn against the family. Look at how horribly these other innocent people were vilified on message boards only to have been found 100% innocent after all....

    Things aren't always as the media or police report they are. Especially when evidence is sketchy or fabricated...
     
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  3. poco

    poco A cat will blink when struck with a hammer.

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    We can attack the family in the JBR forum, but in no other forums can we attack the family????? :confused:
     
  4. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    That is correct, according to Tricia.
     
  5. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    Huh?

    Okay, let's not believe in the police who have been trained for this kind of job. What do you suggest instead? ;)

    Really? Hmmm..the only victim I see here who STILL missing is Madeleine Mc Cann.


    So if we are not to believe the police or the media...what do you suggest to be done? I am puzzled. :waitasec:
     
  6. Rino

    Rino Former Member

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    The evidence that she was abducted by a stranger at this point is also sketchy or fabricated. Who really knows at this point? They have been declared suspects, period.

    Why is your attack on the police any less slanted or more morally upstanding that others seeing the suspicious behavior in the McCanns?

    Your declairing them innocent is of no more consequence than my questioning the unraveling of events. Most here have not declaried them guilty of killing her, but do not deny their underlying guilt and neglect.
     
  7. blaize

    blaize Former Member

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    This is always such a difficult topic when a child is taken or murdered. I believe that posters on both sides of the fence and the fencesitters are sincere in their desire for Madeleine's safe return.

    I also understand that the people who believe that either the father or mother or both had a hand in her disappearance are very sincere in their views and are totally repulsed by the possibility that a parent, any parent could harm their own child. The truth of it is that any decent person is repulsed by such an idea.

    The people who refuse to judge because they haven't seen what they believe is credible evidence are sincere in their belief that the family shouldn't be attacked because they too are totally repulsed by the idea that a parent would intentionally hurt their child & want actual proof before they make a decision one way or another.

    Personally I'm very hopeful that the new law in Portugal will allow light to be shed on this whole sorry mess.
     
  8. poco

    poco A cat will blink when struck with a hammer.

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    do you have a link to that???? :D
     
  9. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    I didn't attack the police, but I certainly question what they've allowed the press to publish. The PJ has made it a very strict rule that they don't discuss case evidence, or so I have read. So why is all this evidence being leaked to the media?

    As far as anyone knows the McCann's are innocent of any wrong doing. That makes them victims just like Beth Holloway.
    I've seen post after post of how guilty the McCann's are here, even posts of how they premeditated this whole thing. How they are the most "hungry for the limelight parents" anyone has ever seen. Obviously those posters never saw the Ramsey's on CNN the day after their daughter was buried.

    It's odd that the McCanns have been very cooperative when the Ramsey's weren't. The McCanns stayed there for months instead of trying to flee within 30 minutes...

    These attacks on the parents here are the exact same type as the attacks on the grandparents of Jessica Lundsford were too. All based on media reports and police conferences given. FL PD even stated on air that there were "problems" with the grandfathers polygraph which started a whole bunch of new threads declaring him the person who "did it".

    I think we all know how the media operates. They are the ones who slant the story and people believe it. If the McCanns were truely suspects I don't believe they would have been allowed to leave the country. They were never arrested, never posted bail, nothing, yet they are officially declared suspects?
    Not even the BPD officially called the Ramsey's suspects...

    The posts I've seen here that deliberately attack and accuse the parents who are at this point actually considered victims of a victim are still against Tricia's post about not attacking the family.

    If anyone has a problem with what she has said in that regard, please take it up with Tricia.
     
  10. SleuthMom

    SleuthMom Former Member

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    Seeker, would you mind posting a link where Tricia said that? (that attacks can be given to the Ramseys but not in this case)

    I personally still waiting for your suggestions. Since according to you, the Media is overdoing it and the police is not doing their job properly...what do YOU suggest to be done? I am really puzzled because if we are not to believe the police (who have been trained for this type of jobs) or the Media...what are we supposed to do? We have a missing child here and someone is responsible. So what is your idea?
     
  11. poco

    poco A cat will blink when struck with a hammer.

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    What constitutes an attack versus a discussion of speculations?
     
  12. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    Well, if you go back and read all the recent threads, you will see that moderator Animal04216k, moderator, posted specifically that we could discuss the behavior of the McCanns and their status as victims/perpetrators/possibly involved parties since Kate McCann had officially been named a suspect by Portuguese police authorities.

    The moderators have been doing an excellent job keeping up with and controlling the high emotions and feelings running on this forum and any violations of TOS they have been quick to assert that and their authority.

    If you feel this is a violation of TOS, you should take it up with them, not start a thread on it.
     
  13. sherri79

    sherri79 Former Member

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    i was under the impression you can not attack the victim. the family of a missing child is thought of as a victim. once the family becomes suspects officially all bets are off. look at the trenton duckett forum. mods are quick to stop any negative talk about the father or his family. any negative talk about the mothers parents or grandparents is off limits. the mother her self we can talk about all day because she is named a suspect. we still can not call her names and must act like grown ups but we can judge her behavior all day. mods have stated in that forum over and over it is because she is a suspect.
     
  14. CaliKid

    CaliKid Former Member

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    The parents of Danielle Van Dam, Elizabeth Smart and Jessica Lunsford had their sweet daughters stolen out of their beds by a perp who broke in while they slept. Xiana Fairchild disappeared on her way to school. In none of these cases were the parents in any way responsible for their disappearance, although there might have been extenuating circumstances in Xiana's.

    On the other hand, the McCanns selfish actions of going out drinking and leaving their children alone in the holiday apartment behind a (supposedly) unlocked door is not in dispute. Even if it turns out that Madeleine was kidnapped and not directly harmed by her parents, they are fully responsible for her fate.
     
  15. BethInAK

    BethInAK New Member

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    I think perhaps your definition of "attack" is different than mine. To me, considering and discussing their possible involvement in the death and disappearance of Madeleien is not an ATTACK. Discussing their neglegence in leaving their children unattended is not an ATTACK. Discussing any of their behavior is not an ATTACK. Its discussion regarding the case.

    We've been through this before with the moderators of websleuths and they have agreed that the above is not a TOS. If thats been changed, I'd like a MOD to post it.
     
  16. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    The McCanns are victims of themselves. They are official "suspects" and as such, do not fall under the same category as "victims" the way Websleuths normally would protect family members who are NOT suspects. I'm sure you're aware of this though.
     
  17. ny_

    ny_ New Member

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    There is no conclusive proof (yet) that the McCanns did it. There is no conclusive proof (yet) that there was an abduction. IF the McCanns did it, they are not victims, they are perpetrators. IF it was an abduction, the McCanns put her in harm's way by their own negligence/studpidity. While that doesn't excuse the abductor's actions/guilt, it doesn't change the fact that they failed to do their job as parents. Madeleine is the victim here, as are the twins. What if she had died in a fire or some other accident because she was left on her own? Would we be seeing them as victims then? And they have repeatedly justified that behavior, saying they were responsible parents. They had an opportunity to educate other people about how to keep their children safe, but they can't admit their own failure in this regard that they weren't responsible to leave 3 children under 4 alone in an unlocked hotel room where they couldn't see/hear them.

    Given the lack of conclusive proof, people are going to look at their behavior such as the smiling. Or blogging about haircuts & jogging. Or releasing photos of one's own wedding/communion. Does any of that prove their guilt? No. Does it raise suspicions among many of us? Yes. To me, that seems more like people seeking publicity for its own sake or trying to win our sympathies, at best. At worst, it may be intended to distract our attention from their possible involvment. I was inclined to believe the parents' innocence at the beginning. But their behavior is leading me to doubt their innocence.

    The police have to look at all the evidence, even if it might incriminate the parents. In fact, I think what the PJ did wrong was not considering all possibilities (parental involvement as well as abduction) from the start. That might have preserved evidence which may have either cleared or implicated the McCanns. Everyone at the resort should've been thoroughly interviewed.

    So, I think the main question is what is the best way to bring Madeleine McCann home safe (if she's alive) or bring those responsible to justice if she isn't alive?

    Apparently, the local police in the UK are going to ask her the 40 questions she wouldn't answer:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/17/wmaddy517.xml

    That's a good start. I consider it reasonable to be nervous about answering questions in a foreign country where you don't understand the laws, but now she's home & it's the local police/legal system, she should be more co-operative. If not, that's very telling in and of itself.
     
  18. BirdieBoo

    BirdieBoo New Member

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    Having an opinion of who did it and discussing that opinion are not the same as attacking.

    It is very common also that a family member turns out to be the guilty party. Here are just a few proven cases: Scott Peterson, Darlie Routier, Precious Doe
    etc...the list goes on and on, I don't have to name them all.

    Anyway it is known as a fact that the Mccanns left the children alone to go drinking. That is wrong IMO and also illegal in many cultures. That is a discussion of a fact, not an attack.
     
  19. Rino

    Rino Former Member

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    You said ..."The only reason the McCann's have been declared suspects by the PJ is because they can't find anyone else to pin it on... sounds like an attack to me

    Why the leaks? I don't know, but jounalists tend to get what they are after.

    Any wrong doing?!? You have no problem with their decision to dine and leave their children unattended?

    Those are fair opinions based on reports the McCanns themselves "leak"

    They declaired they would stay forever, not just until the were named suspects. KM declaired she does not think she could ever go back home again - she did. They claim it was like eating in the garden at home, wrong. KM claimed to have been offered 2 yrs with a confession, unsubstanciated- or rather, disputed by the PJ. They flew around the globe and left the twins is the same situation where Maddie was taken.
    Heck - KM left the twins alone again, when she found Maddie missing. etc, etc, etc.....

    Not by me.

    Therefore it is impossable for my suspicisons to be considered attacking the victims.
     
  20. Animal04216

    Animal04216 Smiling Again

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    this thread is just another question the mosd thread, I'm locking it until I can talk to Tricia myself. Considering she trusts all of her mods to do as we see is correct I, for one, would reall appreciate it if everyone would stop TELLING the mods what TRICIA said.
     
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