The Misdirection and Deception of the DNA

icedtea4me

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I think the cover up is for the benefit of both Burke and the parents. Had it been an adult sexually abusing JB, her injuries would have been a lot worse. The injuries she had of that nature speak to a different psychology. John’s connections run deep and I think he used them just as much for his own benefit as he did Burke’s. I think that indicates John and Patsy were turning a blind eye to many things in that house and it ended in tragedy


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And her father couldn't have been gentle with her?
 

Tadpole12

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How can the data be interpreted without calculation
of LRs, PIs, PEs / Likelyhood Ratio /Probability of Inclusion / Exclusion calculations?
vs Observation.
 

UKGuy

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How can the data be interpreted without calculation
of LRs, PIs, PEs / Likelyhood Ratio /Probability of Inclusion / Exclusion calculations?
vs Observation.

Tadpole12,
Not being a dna specialist I do not know. It would be helpful to know if any of Burke's alleged dna contribution could be distinguished from that of his parents?

i.e. John and Patsy's dna can only have arrived there from separate deposits, or from Burke's deposit as he has inherited genes from both John and Patsy?

.
 

Occams Razor

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And her father couldn't have been gentle with her?

This exactly. Thousands of kids are sexually abused by adults every day without being mortally wounded or irreparably damaged (physically at least). And the opposite is also true: a child abusing another child can definitely cause damage by using instruments or other methods I won't bother getting into here for all our sakes. I'm just not sold on the idea that her pre-pubescent brother was the one sexually abusing her OR responsible for her murder, personally. I'm still in the PDI or JDI or BothofThemDI camps or even AnotherAdultRelativeDI, with BurkeDI coming just before IDI in my hierarchy of likelihood. And that's after reading Kolar's book. Of course I don't rule it out either. I'm just being true to my screen name & sticking to Occam's Razor :p

Everything that's "off" about BR can be explained by being raised in an "off" household by parents who were either abusing, neglecting or severely stressing out both children with their dysfunction, as was evidenced in the children's mutual toilet training issues. Being socially awkward does not indicate psychopathy, as some like to imply from BR's Dr. Phil appearance & the clips of him with the psychologist as a kid. He was probably advised explicitly NOT to mention the pineapple, which is why he acted so awkwardly when it was brought up. Again, there's still no direct evidence that he did anything. The only physical evidence points to Patsy AFAIK (fibers, paint set, beaver hair from boots, War & Peace ransom note, etc).

And that's coming from someone with Asperger's who was very mean to my siblings as a kid. I made up games with the sole intent to hurt them physically. I tormented them in ways I'm too ashamed to admit & they still hate me for it to a degree. But I could've n e v e r whacked them over the head with enough force to end their lives no matter how angry I got. (I know I don't speak for all kids & that some kids DO kill, just sharing my experience as a weird/socially awkward & BAD child).
 

questfortrue

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We may never know who molested JonBenét unless a case goes to trial. No one anticipates a court case occurring, but I found it interesting that the Y-Str was their initial focus for additional DNA investigation this past year. The CBI spokeswoman Susan Medina said their lab is using a testing kit known as the Yfiler Plus. "Its greatest strength is that additional areas on the DNA will be tested," she stated in an email. "Over time, the results will be more individualizing to a specific male versus a family."
 

Tadpole12

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long john waistband , y-str, may distinguish 2 paternal lineages, Ramsey and anonymous male Asian factory worker
 

Tadpole12

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http://services.dlas.virginia.gov/user_db/frmvscc.aspx?viewid=667

When should Y-STR testing be used?
Substantially larger amount of female than male DNA
(high ratio of female:male)
Very small amounts of male DNA

https://strbase.nist.gov/pub_pres/AAFS2006_YSTRs_mtDNA.pdf

p3

Scenarios Where Y-STRs
Can Aid Forensic Casework
• Sexual assaults by vasectomized or azoospermic males (no
sperm left behind for differential extraction)
• Fingernail scrapings from sexual assault victims
• Other bodily fluid mixtures (blood-blood, skin-saliva)
 

UKGuy

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Tadpole12,.
That is an interesting PDF. It seems to tell us pretty much what we already thought we knew, e.g. one of the R's were involved with JonBenet?

Excluding JR is helpful since it allows focus on BR and PR.

IMO only the blood sample matters the rest can be explained away as environmental deposits.

PR's dna should not be on JonBenet's underwear as she said she never changed JonBenet's underwear at all either prior to or after the White's party.

BR has a get out clause as his long john's might be expected to carry his dna?

Does the pdf offer odds for both BR and PR's dna being present?

If the Y-str analysis pins BR down on the blood sample then that along with his touch dna on the gown would be compelling for me.

.
 

Cottonstar

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Tadpole12,.
That is an interesting PDF. It seems to tell us pretty much what we already thought we knew, e.g. one of the R's were involved with JonBenet?

Excluding JR is helpful since it allows focus on BR and PR.

IMO only the blood sample matters the rest can be explained away as environmental deposits.

PR's dna should not be on JonBenet's underwear as she said she never changed JonBenet's underwear at all either prior to or after the White's party.

BR has a get out clause as his long john's might be expected to carry his dna?

Does the pdf offer odds for both BR and PR's dna being present?

If the Y-str analysis pins BR down on the blood sample then that along with his touch dna on the gown would be compelling for me.

.
The smoking scouting swiss army knife + The smoking bloody pink nightgown = The smoking gun.
 

UKGuy

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The smoking scouting swiss army knife + The smoking bloody pink nightgown = The smoking gun.

Cottonstar,
Possibly, the army knife might be there because Patsy used it, JR used or whatever it does not link uniquely to BR, his touch dna on the gown, might be cross-transfer, i.e. its just circumstantial evidence, neat if you favor BDI otherwise its just noise.

The more intersting anecdote is Kolar's account of how the Basement gifts were opened, i.e. who opened them, where, when, and how?

Note: we have differing accounts from JR, who says PR never knew they were in the wine-cellar, PR who says she opened them for a peek, this is after she wrapped them, what no name tags, then BR says he opened them Christmas Day Afternoon.

Where were the gifts located, I reckon they were in the wine-cellar as part of an evidence dump/deposit otherwise why not put JonBenet's bike down into the wine-cellar insted of the Barnhill's there was plenty room, so where was Burke's bike hidden and where did it go?

IMO conflct between JonBenet and Burke over Christmas Gifts running up to and throughout Christmas Day might explain the above better?

Bearing in mind Patsy refers to arguments with JonBenet and that she disregarded some gifts adding also we have no photographs taken on Christmas Morning, why : can only be to hide particular gifts, since we all know who was present in the house !

What I'm thinking is that gifts that would have been visible in the Christmas Morning photographs became part of the wine-cellar deposit, mixed in with some that Patsy had wrapped outside of the wine-cellar?

.
 
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MURDERER_SERVANT

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The gifts in the winecellar were torn and some wrapping paper were on the floor the way a curious person would do. It was not like someone did that just for a peek.

Also another oddity to me was JR’s saying that he did some gift wrapping down there.
I’m sure I read that in one of the interviews .
Very strange. Jmo
 

Cottonstar

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Cottonstar,
Possibly, the army knife might be there because Patsy used it, JR used or whatever it does not link uniquely to BR, his touch dna on the gown, might be cross-transfer, i.e. its just circumstantial evidence, neat if you favor BDI otherwise its just noise.

The more intersting anecdote is Kolar's account of how the Basement gifts were opened, i.e. who opened them, where, when, and how?

Note: we have differing accounts from JR, who says PR never knew they were in the wine-cellar, PR who says she opened them for a peek, this is after she wrapped them, what no name tags, then BR says he opened them Christmas Day Afternoon.

Where were the gifts located, I reckon they were in the wine-cellar as part of an evidence dump/deposit otherwise why not put JonBenet's bike down into the wine-cellar insted of the Barnhill's there was plenty room, so where was Burke's bike hidden and where did it go?

IMO conflct between JonBenet and Burke over Christmas Gifts running up to and throughout Christmas Day might explain the above better?

Bearing in mind Patsy refers to arguments with JonBenet and that she disregarded some gifts adding also we have no photographs taken on Christmas Morning, why : can only be to hide particular gifts, since we all know who was present in the house !

What I'm thinking is that gifts that would have been visible in the Christmas Morning photographs became part of the wine-cellar deposit, mixed in with some that Patsy had wrapped outside of the wine-cellar?

.
UK-

Sure, take one or two of those things by themselves and you can explain it away. But, when you look at all of the evidence within, what I call - the Circle of Culpability- It all comes together like a puzzle.
 

UKGuy

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The gifts in the winecellar were torn and some wrapping paper were on the floor the way a curious person would do. It was not like someone did that just for a peek.

Also another oddity to me was JR’s saying that he did some gift wrapping down there.
I’m sure I read that in one of the interviews .
Very strange. Jmo

MURDERER_SERVANT,
Yet the gifts need not have actually been opened in the wine-cellar, just dumped there?

It might be JR was going to be the one saying he wrapped gifts down in the wine-cellar then they restaged the crime-scene to accomodate the intruder scenario, this would explain why JR has so many stories about stuff in the basement? Here is an excerpt from an interview where he tells Lou Smit Patsy was ignorant about the gifts!
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had gotten a bunch
21 of gifts at FAO Schwartz up in New York in early
22 December, some of which were for them were for
23 Burke's birthday, which was in January. She didn't
24 know they were in the closet exactly,
.
 

FY1234

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Cottonstar- why do you think they didn't wash the nightgown and get rid of the bloodstains and DNA on it and instead left it at the crime scene? Wouldn't it be better for the Ramseys if they had washed and put away the nightgown?
 

Cottonstar

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Cottonstar- why do you think they didn't wash the nightgown and get rid of the bloodstains and DNA on it and instead left it at the crime scene? Wouldn't it be better for the Ramseys if they had washed and put away the nightgown?
You have to ask yourself why does her barbie nightgown make an appearance in the death box? Why isn’t her pink top she wore on Christmas morning inside the cellar?

Obviously, the barbie nightgown spattered with JonBenét’s and bound up
Cottonstar- why do you think they didn't wash the nightgown and get rid of the bloodstains and DNA on it and instead left it at the crime scene? Wouldn't it be better for the Ramseys if they had washed and put away the nightgown?
When you consider all of the items that had JonBenét’s blood on it - the barbie nightgown, white blanket, her sequin star top, underwear, and the piece of tape, you can see that all of those items ended up in the death box. How did all of those items arrive in the cellar room? Instead of having to wash all of those items, the stager decided to drive the story of what happened to the deepest, farthest corner of the basement. I believe this is also why the paint tote with the broken brush was placed just outside the death room. The stager is attempting to explain how these items were used and perhaps why by leaving the tote just outside the cellar. Of course, this also gives the Ramseys an explanation of why they didn’t hear a thing - because it all took place in the furthest place away from their bedroom!

The nightgown is in the cellar along with all of the other items with her blood on it because it was a dumping ground for all of the blood evidence.
 

Derpina10

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Since they have (or do they) DNA from her underwear. Can they run it through the database to determine the killer. Or did they (investigators) called it a day and claimed it an unsolvable case. With the 2 recent arrests of serial kills (california and I can't remember the other one) you'd think they would want to run the DNA to find a match if they were wanting to solve this case. Sorry it this makes zero sense, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, lol.
 
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