The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

Oh and don't forget the male teen she was sending her nasty photos too and sexting. I'm sure we'll be hearing from that during the trial. What a disgusting human TM is. I can't imagine how embarrassed her teen kids must be about her behavior.
 
Yes, scary stuff!

I read a lot & I read this book titled 'You' by Caroline Kepnes last month. It's about this sketchball of a guy who stalked this girl after she shopped at the bookstore he managed. He wrote down her name when she paid with a credit card, went home and and found out all this stuff about her online... like where she lived and her social media accounts... & then he physically stalked her for weeks. After he figured out where she would be one night from a post she put up on Twitter, he just happened to "bump into her" there. He used everything he learned thru stalking her to get her interested in him and they started dating! It was written from the stalker's perspective and it reallllyyyyy freaked me out!

BTW, I didn't ruin the book if anyone planned to read it. All of that is pretty much in the book's description. :)


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OT but I want to read this book! This kind of happened to me, a long time ago too, well before social media. I went to a sports game with a friend and at some stage opened my wallet to get cash out. 6 weeks later I received a call from the guy who was sitting next to me. We didn't talk at all during the game but he saw my name on my ID when I opened my wallet for something, then proceeded to ring all the people in the phone book with the same surname until he found me. Because I was 15 I thought it was cute and went on a date with him (god knows why my parents let me, aside from the stalker aspect he was well into his 20s). I didn't see him again after that, he rang a whole bunch but my parents brushed him off and he eventually got the message.

Then last year - ie almost 20 years later - he found me on FB despite having my profile locked down, being on there under my married name, having no mutual friends and the fact I'm now living in a different country! He started messaging me with the weirdest stuff "are you the same escabeche who had a cat called fluffy" "did you used to live at 23 smith street in 1995" etc. Needless to say I blocked him!! It really creeped me out he remembered all that, I'd completely forgotten about him. And it kind of made me wonder if he did actually leave me alone after the calls stopped....
 
Oh and don't forget the male teen she was sending her nasty photos too and sexting. I'm sure we'll be hearing from that during the trial. What a disgusting human TM is. I can't imagine how embarrassed her teen kids must be about her behavior.

I know, I can't believe more hasn't been released about that!
 
I think a contributing factor to TM's arrogance is because she knows exactly what happened and the theories that LE have thrown out are not what went down that night. Because LE may not have the exact happenings, it's given TM & SM a sense of accomplishment and "we got away with it, they don't have a body". They're using that as a way to poke holes in the evidence that LE has. After seeing how TM operates it's obvious it's a game to her.

And if that's the case - then she and SM would have all kinds of 'points' they could make to their attorneys to help prove the prosecution wrong in their theories? Will be interesting to watch.....
 
I know, I can't believe more hasn't been released about that!

Who would release it and why?

The state makes sure to try their cases in the courtroom, preserve the integrity of the case and not try it in the public court of opinion, and not divulge information as entertainment fodder for the curious. The defense sure isn't going to touch that one. Besides, with the gag order, neither side can discuss the case.
 
Who would release it and why?

The state makes sure to try their cases in the courtroom, preserve the integrity of the case and not try it in the public court of opinion, and not divulge information as entertainment fodder for the curious. The defense sure isn't going to touch that one. Besides, with the gag order, neither side can discuss the case.

I was just hoping they would be pressing charges.
 
Off topic, but there's a new photo on a fb page. Funny thing is the photo shop skills are really lacking, there's what appears to be an ear in the wrong place and the hair looks like a cut and paste job in places. I laughed. Maybe there is truth to the rumor that SM is seeing someone while he has his freedom. Thus the increased "happy" couple activity on fb. TM has arrested development, she's like a jealous teen to me.
 
Off topic, but there's a new photo on a fb page. Funny thing is the photo shop skills are really lacking, there's what appears to be an ear in the wrong place and the hair looks like a cut and paste job in places. I laughed. Maybe there is truth to the rumor that SM is seeing someone while he has his freedom. Thus the increased "happy" couple activity on fb. TM has arrested development, she's like a jealous teen to me.

LOL, I just saw it. hahahahahahahahaha
 
Thinking she needs some new skills or glasses, hahaha!
 
I guess it kind of depends on how truly scared Heather was of TM. According to Elders, the M's had sex in their vehicle in 2 different places that night before Heather went missing. Then Elders says that TM sent pics of that mess to Heather. So TM clearly hadn't calmed down yet. Elders says that Heather was afraid of TM...and yet she called SM's phone? I guess it doesn't matter why because the end result is the same...where is Heather? :(

You know, Heather could have used *67 to call SM so her number would not actually show up. Maybe she was just hoping that he would answer so she could talk to him, and if he didn't, then her number would not have shown up and caused any problems.
 
Off topic, but there's a new photo on a fb page. Funny thing is the photo shop skills are really lacking, there's what appears to be an ear in the wrong place and the hair looks like a cut and paste job in places. I laughed. Maybe there is truth to the rumor that SM is seeing someone while he has his freedom. Thus the increased "happy" couple activity on fb. TM has arrested development, she's like a jealous teen to me.
Didn't we used to have a topic where we could post such things? IIRC someone mentioned it a couple days ago. I don't do Facebook so I can't see what you're talking about and I'd love to. Please mods?
 
Gotta love the media. From the way the above article reads, it appears Heather reviewed her social media messages and phone records and they inspired her to drive to PTL.

Donna Elder said they know from her GPS coordinates that she left after talking to SM from her home, and went to PTL. That premise includes the theory of a lure to PTL, implying she drove herself there to meet them and her fate.
http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/article_588cb81e-ae0b-11e3-86e2-0017a43b2370.html

As I recall, the other reference to PTL was after the arrests when the Solicitor said something to the effect that every indication is she drove herself there. He added something to the effect that there's nothing to indicate she didn't.

I think when your premise is "We know 'x' happened because we have no indication it didn't...and/or no indication that 'y' did", you're really saying you have a theory.

In Heather's case, they really only know for sure that her phone traveled from her condo vicinity to the landing vicinity, and since her car ended up there, they reason she was with the phone, driving her car.

But, for all anyone knows, she could have been alone, or with SM and already gravely disabled or deceased, or someone else could have been the driver and the only one in the car, with control of her phone.

I continue to believe that the murder theory keeps the murder at PTL because it's the only location where the state can reasonably argue that all the parties were present at the same time. Theorizing beyond PTL creates problems at trial. So, I've always felt that the theory of murder at PTL is more a product of what they don't know, than what they do, and it aligns with the only timeline they have via the phone records. For that timeline to work for the state, things had to happen and be over pretty darn fast.

I don't think this lessens the probability of M's guilt. I just think it's a reflection of the fact that LE really doesn't know what the M's did, when they did it, or how they disposed of her body.

They do seem to have concluded early on that whatever was done makes Heather unlikely to ever be found. Why no elaboration on that? Because it gets into speculation after the trail of circumstantial evidence appears to have ended. The Solicitor said what they later found at the house was an extension of what they already had.

I think these two succeeded in killing her and disposing of her without a trace because they had a plan, third party help, and some luck. Not enough luck to keep them from getting arrested, but so far, enough to make their victim vanish and give their defense some ammunition in arguing, "What did they do in that fleeting time frame to end this girl's life, and how/where did they hide her if they allegedly headed back home, but no body was subsequently found on their property?"

My guess is the defense will then present some alternative scenarios of what happened to Heather.

JMO


Great post. I don't know why, but I have never believed that Heather drove herself to PTL and I won't until they can prove it. I guess I've seen too many murderers leave too many victims' cars in one spot and dump the victim somewhere else.
 
Great post. I don't know why, but I have never believed that Heather drove herself to PTL and I won't until they can prove it. I guess I've seen too many murderers leave too many victims' cars in one spot and dump the victim somewhere else.

I agree that its very possible the car being planted by someone other than Heather driving there.

Things happened so fast at PTL. It almost seems like maybe one of the Ms was driving her car and then the other M was following not far behind and as soon as car was parked at the landing, then along comes the black truck zooming to pick up the other one.

I think its possible Heather was in neither car at that point.
Heather may have already been deposited somewhere else before her car was parked at the landing.

For example. Lets suppose Heather gets a call from SM and he says he is not far from her apartment and just wants to talk because he is faking being upset.

So he could have either arrived at the apartment or she could have driven to meet him somewhere else which may have been even more of a private spot than the landing. Then once she is immobilized and deposited somewhere then all that is left is to get her car back to the landing which would have only took the 2 of the Ms to do it.

I hope some of the video evidence was enhanced to be able to clearly see who was driving. Or at least be able to tell if there was passengers present sitting up next to driver or not. We may be able to determine some things if enhanced video gives those kinds of details.
 
One of the key things is what exactly was said to her roomate by Heather.

I cant recall what we know about the details of that phone call. The testimony from the roomate is going to be critical because if Heather shared her plans what she was fixing to do then that will explain a lot.

For instance Heather may have told the roomate she was fixing to drive somewhere specific to meet him. Or maybe she told her she was waiting at her apartment for him to arrive.

I dont recall that we know those kinds of details. Perhaps there is much more that was said by Heather than what we know.
 
Great post. I don't know why, but I have never believed that Heather drove herself to PTL and I won't until they can prove it. I guess I've seen too many murderers leave too many victims' cars in one spot and dump the victim somewhere else.

Felt the PTL scenario was not quite aligned with what happened since the first time I heard about her case. Don't know why either.

Then later, when more info was released, the timeline and the abrupt end of the 'what happened next' trail never made sense to me.

Perhaps one of the reasons we've perceived so much arrogance/confidence in the M's is they see that LE and the state don't have the crime and its location accurately theorized.
 
I'm pretty much in line with @Hatfield's and @jillycat's previous posts. I'm not sold on LE's theory of PTL as the murder scene. IMO, that was just a place where Heather's car was dumped and the perps could rendezvous thereafter.

I hope that BW can (or has) provided LE with more detailed info about her convo with Heather that night.

Here is last interview with BW (0:33):

[video=youtube;PZBuEq4so2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZBuEq4so2M[/video]
 
Well, that made me wanna hug Debbi Elvis' neck and never let go. Bless her heart. Why can't somebody dig deep enough to find some decency and tell this mother where her daughter is? :tears:
 
I doubt that was true. TM didn't know about the affair until late October 2014.

TM text Heather in November saying "tell me who you are",right after she found out about the affair so I would agree that TM was lying when she said that she had been having SM followed. However, in another text to Heather, TM told Heather that she would find out another way. I believe that TM did and wouldn't be shocked if she/they were stalking/following Heather after November. SM calling Heather as soon as she got home from her date and on a night that BW was out of town, is just a bit too convenient for the M's IMO.
 
Well, that made me wanna hug Debbi Elvis' neck and never let go. Bless her heart. Why can't somebody dig deep enough to find some decency and tell this mother where her daughter is? :tears:


BBM Because the only people that know where Heather's location are M & M and they have no decency!
 
[/B]

BBM Because the only people that know where Heather is are M & M and they have no decency!
Unfortunately: (
I don't know why but I feel such a big connection with Heather and I just wish the M's would speak up and give her family some type of closure in this. I really wish LE has enough to get those two behind bars forever. I feel for their children though, they're victims of all of this mess too.
 

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