The Resistance...I get it.

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by SapphireSteel, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    I believe the McCanns are involved in their daughter's death and/or disappearance.

    The evidence is just too compelling to think otherwise, in my view.

    Even feeling as I do, I watched a video of them speaking and I believed them...or should I say, I experienced the overwhelming desire to believe them.

    I get it, I really do.

    I understand why people are so strongly supportive of them. They are very, very credible. You want so badly to believe them.

    <modsnip> They don't skip a beat (unless you look very closely). They are the young and competent professional you want to examine you next time you feel a lump or something. You <modsnip>

    <modsnip>.

    Might they be innocent as claimed?

    Yes, they might. They certainly put on a fantastic display of it. Maybe they even believe it now. Maybe they have bargained so much guilt away as being in the interests of their remaining children that what they did seems completely justified and they even FEEL innocent.

    :dunno:

    Despite what I want to believe, what I DID believe for that few minutes of video, my logical, straight-line thinking brain will just not allow it. Every shred of common sense and intelligence I have has tells me they are guilty as sin...but I can empathise from where other's faith comes from. This thread isn't for arguing the details of the case, just for me to say - I get it.

    Ironically, it's this very credibility I believe the McCanns have used to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, including those politicians who now just want the whole thing to go away. They believed them too. There are a lot of people now trying to distance themselves from the whole saga.

    It's just almost unbelievable. But then truth often is stranger than fiction.

    As usual, this is my opinion only.

    :cow:
     
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  3. Gem2626

    Gem2626 New Member

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    This is extremely patronising.
     
  4. brit1981

    brit1981 New Member

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    Actually people belive them because there is no evidence against them, and it is impossible for madeleine to have been moved from the flat by her parents in the time they had available and for her not to have been found that night.

    Perhaps there is a reason why successful people in the public eye support them,<modsnip>.
     
  5. Clutchbag

    Clutchbag New Member

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    I too gave the benefit of the doubt for a very long while, despite a lot of misgivings, i approached many issues from as an objective viewpoint as possible but as things started to stack up in the red flag pile i couldnt mistrust my own judgement for any longer

    That is not to say there isnt alot of rubbish on the net still about this case but I know what is and what isnt now and the red flags just wont go away

    lets face it if there werent any no one would be here but they are and there is a case to answer, who is going to make them answer it is anyones guess
     
  6. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    Lol the mods have been in I see.

    :D

    I'm hoping something will come of this Operation Grange (but not holding my breath) but just as importantly, the Portugese co-investigation.

    Andy Redmond does not inspire hope but the PJ team at Oporto do. They have no reason to wish to reopen this mess, yet they have, and it has cost them a lot of money to do it.

    My heart sank to the floor when I heard the opinion spouted by AR one quarter of the way through the SY proceedings, but surely there's some transparency to the review. Time will tell. If there isn't, I can only hope the stodgily uncurious British Public will demand it...or at the very least, rouse out of their bovine complacency long enough to query another whitewash, if it occurs.

    :please:

    I do believe in natural justice at times, and karma, and I can only keep hoping that these people will some day be compelled to answer some very important questions, in a court of law.

    :cow:
     
  7. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    I saw a clip of the McCanns talking, as I alluded to in my first post.

    I so believed them. Their way of telling what happened was so natural, smooth, flawless.

    They are "nice" people. The sort of gorgeous young professional family you hope to become. Not the sort of people to hurt or hide their children, and then lie about it.

    The problem is twofold - the physical evidence, and the deceptiveness.

    Either one on its own, maybe. Both together?

    The likliehood of a child being kidnapped by a stranger are very low, Klass Kids says 24%.
    http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-mcstatistics.htm

    Now add in the fact that there has never been such an event either before or since, in the entire world. This zaps another few percentages off the likliehood stats.

    Then, the dogs, alerting only to items belonging to the McCanns, alone in a very large resort.

    Then the former lead detective, losing his position and his reputation but still firm in his belief of their guilt.

    Then add in Tanners lies.

    Then the forensics...the chances of DNA swabs of "bodily fluids" turning out to belong only to a child of Kate and Gerry's - only one of whom is missing, must put the odds right over the top of believability by now - but apparently not for some;

    The whole load of bs with the shutters and the doors. :lol:

    The profiteering, the relishing of the spotlight, their jolly demeanor on Madeleines 4th birthday, the refusal to cooperate, the Renault...

    Some things explainable in isolation, others not so much...but each troubling, unanswered fact is another brick in the wall of Please Explain.

    Vs. Proof of the abductor which is....0. :dunno:

    Yes, that's right. After all the investigators and money, there is still exactly zero evidence of any kind of anyone taking Madeleine anywhere, apart from the Smith sighting of Gerry.

    What are the chances of all that just happening, on the very last night of a holiday, seriously? If you had to calculate it out they would be something in the order of five trillion to one. It is literally almost statistically impossible for what they say happened, to have happened. Does this not weigh at all on the McCann supporters personal scale of WTH?

    You would have more chance of winning Lotto three times over three years in a row.

    :waitasec:

    :cow:
    :cow:
     
  8. CherryPie

    CherryPie New Member

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    Sorry, I've never found them convincing at all. I've found them cold and detached. Any "emotion" appears fake to me.

    Now that doesn't mean they are guilty of anything, but that's how I feel when I watch them.
     
  9. Irishdetective

    Irishdetective Member

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    Can totally see where your coming from SS. As i said in a previous post from my experience 1 lie or 1 story not matching another normally is very very telling.

    2 things that get me and again from experience is that if the parents did it, how did they conceal the body so well that to date it has never been retrieved. Lets not forget they were on holiday so they wouldn't be overly comfortable or knowledgable with the seaside town.

    Mr Smith a fellow Irish man is 1 million per cent certain that the man he seen carrying the child down a street was Gerry McCann. Any doubt he had was quickly dismissed the minute he saw Gerry on tv carrying one of the twins of an aeroplane. The position of the child was the same, his gait was the same, his walk was the same everything matched Gerry. Even his wife who has distanced herself from the case believes it was Gerry, and has distanced herself because she just can't believe the parents committed this crime.
     
  10. Tink

    Tink New Member

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    I've posted this before, but I think the reason Madeleine's body has never been found is that it is in the ocean. In the statements, it says the ocean is just a five-minute walk from the resort. The McCanns did go there at least once, and may have also gone running down by the ocean as well - both parents went for runs almost every day. I don't know about this resort, but at places I've stayed near the ocean the tides have been posted (or could easily be looked up).

    I don't live near the ocean, but I am near one of the Great Lakes (Ontario) and I know that bodies that go into the water are often never seen again. It's even more true in the ocean.

    If her body had been washed up at some point, it's likely that any evidence of how, why or at whose hands she died would have been destroyed, so it was a low-risk decision.

    Tink
     
  11. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    I would absolutely agree with this scenario but for one thing - the cadaver in the Renault 20 days later.

    Pretty much the only way that was possible is if a refrigerated Madeleine had been deposited in there, according to Amaral. Burial of some sort would not have resulted in fluids, and they shouldn't have found cadaver at all.

    Then there's this largely forgotten gem from - guess who - one David Payne, who is all over this mess and not in a good way -

    Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well.
    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

    I think they may have hidden her on the beach in the early hours, then in a vacant unit somewhere that someone had knowledge of. There is a small army of Brits living in PDL, and another army again of Brit holiday home owners with houses that sit vacant most of the year. It is very cliquey and they all know each other, as they tend to be of the same social echelon as the Tapas.

    My theory is, someone knew that someone was safely back in England and so knew their PDL house was vacant. Maybe the garage door was easily opened, perhaps someone had boasted they never bother to lock their doors while they were away as it's so safe there, or even mentioned a key under a pot in passing. I believe Madeleine went somewhere like that within the first 12 hours, if not straight away.

    Beach first (maybe), vacant holiday house after. Then to the Renault and off the coast of whereever they went on that long trip they did.

    The poor little thing is definitely in the sea, maybe not that night and not off PDL.
     
  12. Tink

    Tink New Member

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    I had wondered if perhaps the cadaver scent or fluid in the rental car could have been transferred? If Madeleine was hidden (perhaps in David's apartment) initially, and then moved three or four hours later, there might have been some transfer onto a blanket or clothes Gerry was wearing when she carried her to the water? These were then stashed temporarily in David's apartment, and tossed at some point into the car before being thrown away? Would that leave enough to be detected?

    While the idea of putting your child's body in a fridge or freezer feels so horrifying to me, I know it's been done in the past. Remember the Sims case? (I think that was the name?) The mother killed her baby then put the body in the grandparents' freezer (they were on holiday); before they returned she removed the body and put it in a trash can.

    Tink
     
  13. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    To quote Amaral, the "fluid" found (which was never identified as blood) was from a defrosting Madeleine and could not have got there any other way.

    "The cadaver was frozen"

    Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

    Gonçalo Amaral &#8211; Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

    Q.
    How can you state that?

    A.Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html

    I can well imagine them just being able to pop her in a freezer somewhere and shutting the door, thereby closing their minds to what they'd done. By preserving her still looking as perfect as if she were asleep, they would be able to bluff out the media and LE and convince themselves they were doing the "right thing" and their only crime was hiding her body.

    They have never owned any responsiblity for what happened to her so they clearly don't feel any. I think they genuinely believe they only committed a very minor crime and shouldn't lose everything because of it.
     
  14. rashomon

    rashomon New Member

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    Assuming that Madeleine's body was put in a freezer, imo it means that the McCanns also must have had someone who helped them do it by giving them acces to a freezer big enough to hold the body.
     
  15. belimom

    belimom Our lives begin to end the day we become silent ab

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    Interesting theory about the freezer. I'm not sure I buy into it b/c I believe that if the McCanns are guilty, then no one else is in on it. You would literally be trusting your friends with your life and theirs, too, if they were to cover and then be 'found out' later. As far as vacant homes, I think that seems unlikely.

    It does seem that, being physicians, the McCanns may think about the odor of a decomposing body and therefore think of trying to keep a body cold until they could dispose of her further. If this is true, then I'm leaning towards a large cooler somewhere...?

    Here's the problem: they were being watched like hawks afterwards - I think they'd have a hard time moving her later without being detected. (It's been so long since I've sleuthed this case that I've forgotten about any gaps in time where their location was unknown after she was reported).

    I'm leaning towards her being disposed of that night, probably in the ocean. Whether she was walked down to the beach or driven to another location along the coast, I don't know. But weren't there some gaps from going to check on her - when her father went from the restaurant? What's the longest time one of the parents were missing from the last time she was seen that day until reported missing?
     
  16. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    It helps to understand Praia De Luz a little bit.

    The place is packed to the rafters with Englishmen. Wealthy ones...of the same social circles as the Tapas crew. They all know each other, for example Martin Smith knew Robert Murat simply from seeing him in the local pub and about PDL over the years.

    Many Brits maintain holiday homes in PDL which are vacant 11 months of the year.

    PDL is a very small village, very quiet, even cars are unusual as most people get about on foot.

    I believe that Payne or the McCann not only knew where there was a vacant holiday home (perhaps belonging to an acquaintance), they also knew where to find the key.

    Kate and Gerry both took long, solitary runs around PDL. Those who claim that they were in an unknown environment are quite wrong. They had both been all over town, separately and together. As the town is tiny, I would go so far as to say they were both very familiar with it, by the end of their holiday.

    Familiar enough to have found a quiet corner to hide a tiny body.
     
  17. Clutchbag

    Clutchbag New Member

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    Blacksmith - Stating The McCann's Will Settle On Amaral's Terms **TRIAL NOW SUSPENDED**
    **Me on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:22 pm

    http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/libel-diarythursday-morning-january-17.html

    Thursday, 17 January 2013
    Libel diary–Thursday morning January 17

    John Blacksmith writes: I've experienced plenty of shocking events in my time and survived encounters with a number of monsters but I'm willing to confess that I read Kate McCann's Madeleine with something approaching horror.

    The stormy and unpredictable violence of her personality, her inability to conceive of anyone's needs beyond her own, her failure ever to write about, or confront the memory of, her oldest child as a real human being, confining herself instead to recalling and describing photographs and images of her daughter in a pattern of clinical aberration, were troubling enough. Then there was the extraordinary risk she was taking in setting out a version of events that people close to her, particularly her Portuguese lawyer and his assistant, knew to be untrue. What, I wondered, was she thinking as she sat alone at her desktop, somehow constructing a narrative on several different levels at once, addressing simultaneously the police who she knew would be reading her book, her seven friends and her family who had seen a very different Kate McCann, the journalists who she had used to subvert the investigation so successfully and, finally, the "public" itself? Perhaps she'd convinced herself that the latter, whose support in the UK had carried her through so many dangerous passages, was the only one that mattered and would continue to keep her impregnable and wrote accordingly. Even creepier was the sense that one gets from certain Nabokov books, including Lolita – the feeling that at times you can hear a ghostly voice hidden somewhere behind the narrative, laughing at the challenge of deceiving the audience.

    For the book reveals that Kate McCann is quite mad. That was why I softened the end of the review I wrote for the McCann Files: the exposure of her madness was so raw and discomfiting that it made me pause at the impact my own writings might have on what passes publicly for her personality if she read them.

    Sympathy for a sick person might be in order then. Except.

    Except for her ruthlessness in her own interests illustrated by the psychotic pursuit of Goncalo Amaral in which she used everything she had, the wealth her public fans had provided, the support and sympathy of people who believed in her, the dirty newspapers like the Mirror willing to collude in the plot and the unrelenting viciousness at her core, to destroy him. "Destroy", for once, means what it says. As does "Kafkaesque". The assault that she and her tight-mouthed accomplice sprang on Amaral, the nightmare in which they trapped him and the relentless way they upped the pursuit month by month could easily have driven a lesser man to suicide.

    While Kate McCann was whining to the UK media at the unfair fate she had suffered, I was hearing how her campaign had claimed its first victim – Amaral's wife having a complete breakdown and telling her beleaguered husband that even if he was right she simply couldn't stand the terror of it any more: both the pain and the odds against them were too great, he had to seek out the McCanns and settle. She was an innocent victim in the way the whiner never was but that cut no ice with Kate McCann: she was just an object to be trodden on and squashed in her pursuit of her enemy.

    That pursuit has failed. The McCanns are going to settle on Amaral's terms and that means it's the beginning of the end of six years of lies and deception. No, I can't evoke even a touch of sympathy for them: they have acted wickedly and now they are going to pay.

    ____________________
    What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns


    *
     
  18. SapphireSteel

    SapphireSteel New Member

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    Wow...

    And a lawsuit seeking to gag Blacksmith is due in 3, 2, 1...

    Or maybe not.

    Maybe (hopefully) Blacksmith is right and we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the McCann Lies.

    I'm a bit uncomfortable with the way he has attacked Kate and not mentioned Gerry...but then I suppose Gerry wasn't the author of the book that so thoroughly besmirched Amaral.

    Amaral will turn out to be the only hero in this mess, I'm sure.

    By the way, I've just lost my much loved cat. It has virtually taken me a week of crying to even get out of bed.

    Quite the contrast to the McCann who lost their daughter yet were able to laugh, joke, and manipulate the media, and set up a private company within 10 days.
     
  19. Clutchbag

    Clutchbag New Member

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    Sorry to hear about Moggy SS, its so sad when a loved pet dies.

    if you check the blackamith link he has put up quite a few posts since that one

    What seems to be happening is that at the eleventh hour the mccanns have asked the courts to suspend the libel trial and try find an out of court settlement with Mr Amaral.
    Good luck to them!! They sure cant be confident with their case to do this.And of course Mr GA doesnt owe them diddly squat. The damage they have caused him is unforgiveable. And lets not forget thefragrant Kate Mccann writing in her book that she hopes he feels fear and deserves to be miserable. nasty woman.
     
  20. UKgirl

    UKgirl For you little sky.

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    Never believed either of them from the start. The mother came across as cold and the father as just plain weird.

    I believe it has something to do with the sofa. It was strange how it was moved and how the dogs alaerted there, even traces of blood were found there.
     
  21. Clutchbag

    Clutchbag New Member

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    I think the mum lashed out at Madeleine and she died as a result...Madeleine was a wild child by all accounts and her mu had three toddlers to look after all by herself that day and the dad is clearing up the mess for the sake of his family....he is a manipulated type of husband married to a manipulative deceiver IMO if you read her book you will see how many lies she tells and how much she embroidered the truth

    And you are dead on right ukgirl, i didnt believe em from the first second i saw them ontv on 4 may 2007 and never have since....and since 4 may all their mates and relatives were slagging off the police already and telling lies like the shuttera on the windows were broken.....since may 4 also there was a campaign to discresit the portuguese and it continues to this day....when the mccanns are suing the detective for 2 million dollars for making them depressed....kate mccann also wrote in her book she wishes he feels miserable and feels fear cos he deserves it...talk about vindictive ungrateful venom
     
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